buying a home without a Realtor, save on buyers commission?

[iEatClams]

just want to hear opinions from other home-owners, or realtors out there.

If I'm very familiar with the surrounding neighbourood or condo etc. and I know the range in pricing, and I have bought and sold homes in the past so I understand the process. . ..

Are most selling realtors willing to do kick backs or even re-negotiate with the seller to reduce commissions because I'm not using a purchasing realtor?

Basically I want to see if I can negotiate a lower price because I'm not bringing a realtor to purchase my home. Basically they take half the commissions of if I can save 5-7 grand thats money in my pocket. . ..

[catalin]

Posted via RS Mobile

It's a good plan, we bought our last two places without one. Even better if you can find a place without any realtors at all.

Good luck

[accordpoop]

Realtors are going to be extinct in a few years. We had a friend that referred us to a realtor and she didn't do jack shit but take the commission. Just get a good lawyer/notary.

[6793026]

to be honest. these are true stories from various realtors.

here are a few KEY things that if you don't have a realtor, you won't find out

1) 2 owners BEFORE the current one, it was actually a grow up and it didn't get rebuilt up to par
2) you might find out the minutes that in 5 months later, they will need you to chip in 20k for roof renos.
3) how to you write the T&C of the conditions of your transaction in your contract? eg// you got the house, and then 2 days later, the water tank breaks, the washer breaks... who the fuck do you go to complain?
4) market value. how do you find out without knowing the market value. If you don't have a realtor friend, how do you pull up the past 5 yrs of listings being sold, what's the city accessment? if you aren't a realtor, you can't find it (unless you hire an appraiser).
5) who's going to do inspections? Where are you going to find someone? google? CL? are they legit?
6) **** someone DIED in the house. THERE WAS a murder in the house 5 years ago... NOT JOKING.
7) oil tank, if you have a house that is 1940 -1960, there will be OIL tanks to heat the house, there might be an oil tank that needs to be dug up which might cost 10-20k and if it leaks, you're FOOKED.

[SoulCrusher]

I bought a place without an agent. I put in a low ball offer for the place and made sure the selling agent understand that I would be using him as my purchasing agent if the seller accepted my offer. Since he was making more commission from my arrangement, he talked the buyer into accepting my offer.
Posted via RS Mobile

[jackmeister]

Originally Posted by SoulCrusher

I bought a place without an agent. I put in a low ball offer for the place and made sure the selling agent understand that I would be using him as my purchasing agent if the seller accepted my offer. Since he was making more commission from my arrangement, he talked the buyer into accepting my offer.
Posted via RS Mobile

Just a thought,

what stops the agent from telling the seller that there is only 1 offer in place (the one you placed) instead of, for example, 4 offers?

I know it's illegal and all but its rare a homeowner will go to great lengths to figure out of there are other outstanding offers.

[Verdasco]

Originally Posted by accordpoop

Realtors are going to be extinct in a few years. We had a friend that referred us to a realtor and she didn't do jack shit but take the commission. Just get a good lawyer/notary.

hmmmm no.

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by jackmeister

Just a thought,

what stops the agent from telling the seller that there is only 1 offer in place (the one you placed) instead of, for example, 4 offers?

I know it's illegal and all but its rare a homeowner will go to great lengths to figure out of there are other outstanding offers.

Both the buyer and the seller need to sign off on the conflict of interest.

Happens all the time. As a realtor, your best day is selling your own listing.

I also want to touch on the idea of them being extinct. I don't think that's true. I DO think that their commission structure is going to have to change. There are a lot of people coming up with creative ideas on selling houses, and the whole area is going to have to change to compete. When my mom was a realtor, she used to drive people all over the country side looking at houses, combing through books of perspective properties. Obviously, you do this on the hopes of a nice commission.

Today? People do the searching from home. I want to look at the following properties, located here, and I'm willing to spend this much. No one wants that cheezy guy walking them through, "you'll love the natural sunlight here" . Buyers are much more informed.

If someone were to make a owner listed house website as ubiquitous as MLS, they'd have a great business. There are people running sites that are good, and have functionlity, but they don't have ALL the houses, and thus, fail to topple MLS and the realtor(tm) system.

[iEatClams]

Originally Posted by 6793026

to be honest. these are true stories from various realtors.

here are a few KEY things that if you don't have a realtor, you won't find out

1) 2 owners BEFORE the current one, it was actually a grow up and it didn't get rebuilt up to par
2) you might find out the minutes that in 5 months later, they will need you to chip in 20k for roof renos.
3) how to you write the T&C of the conditions of your transaction in your contract? eg// you got the house, and then 2 days later, the water tank breaks, the washer breaks... who the fuck do you go to complain?
4) market value. how do you find out without knowing the market value. If you don't have a realtor friend, how do you pull up the past 5 yrs of listings being sold, what's the city accessment? if you aren't a realtor, you can't find it (unless you hire an appraiser).
5) who's going to do inspections? Where are you going to find someone? google? CL? are they legit?
6) **** someone DIED in the house. THERE WAS a murder in the house 5 years ago... NOT JOKING.
7) oil tank, if you have a house that is 1940 -1960, there will be OIL tanks to heat the house, there might be an oil tank that needs to be dug up which might cost 10-20k and if it leaks, you're FOOKED.

I disagree, as I said, this is not my first rodeo in buying a home and I work in a real estate related industry. I have access to CLX and MLX and land titles. I understand comparing sales and comparables etc. that the realtors do to there clients.

1. an inspection can detect that, and I know some good home inspectors from past transactions,

also there is a list on the rcmp website somewhere that shows all homes in BC that have had former grow-ops.

2. again, the inspector may assist. also theres the PDS that may provide some info, and last, one can look up strata minutes. Also any previous engineering report.
As well, the changes in the strata act requires contingent funds and changes that will assist new buyers.

3. you can have a lawyer that helps you out. Also if you have purchase/sold homes in the past, just include Subject clauses that can bail you out if you cant obtain financing or inspection isnt great etc. theres ways around this. not that hard if you are educated.

4 and 5 have been answered in the above.

6. hard to know these facts even if you use a realtor.

7. most realtors arent smart enough to even discuss this, and a home inspector would provide info on this upon inspection.

[iEatClams]

I think my real question is, with me thinking that the marketing is going down, (I think theres a correction coming, but not a crash - but thats for another thread and another conversation).

I'm just wondering if realtors are willing to renegotiate the commisions with the property owners or do any kick backs? I don't know too much from the realtors points of view, as I understand many of their brokerage companies (remax, sutton etc) are not promoting this? need to get more information on this part.

[iEatClams]

Originally Posted by SoulCrusher

I bought a place without an agent. I put in a low ball offer for the place and made sure the selling agent understand that I would be using him as my purchasing agent if the seller accepted my offer. Since he was making more commission from my arrangement, he talked the buyer into accepting my offer.
Posted via RS Mobile

this is the type of situation I want to get into, doing a low ball offer and hoping it gets accepted. My goal is to save $5-8K off the purchase price more than had I use my own realtor.

[GLOW]

i dunno, i always figured the buyer doesn't pay for realtor fees, it's from the seller. how they bojangle that costs if there's just 1 realtor (the seller's) might make it cheaper for the seller, i don't see how that gets passed along to the buyer. i'd use a realtor personally, but it took a really long time for me to find one i trusted. that's my 2 cents

[Selanne_200]

^It doesn't make it cheaper for the seller, but speaking from a personal experience, what happened was that I told the seller's realtor that I don't have my own realtor and I'm going to be purchasing from him, and since he can earn the entire commission, he was willing to lower his commission by 10,000(saving the seller's commission expense) so I can have the house even tho my offer probably wasn't the highest. Plus he was must more willing to work with me and give me info to win the deal

[6793026]

azndude69: in your case, you went above and beyond and you did all the possible research which of course gave you great results. Yes it did save you a few buck, heck maybe 10k, but there will always be people who just don't have the time to go search online etc.. you know what i mean.

as for grow op, i personally have dealt with 2 properties that had grow ops and it wasn't on police radar and it never will.

I've seen tons of inspectors that doesn't do a decent job, then again, there are always bad apples.

OH, to answer your question, with all the realtors I know, I have yet to find one that didn't cut their commission. Yes it might not say it in the contract but damn I'm seen some people with 10k kick back, 70 inch TVs etc. Of course, you're talking about a house with a decent commission; I witnessed a realtor outright told the client, "why don't you go find someone else, I'm more than happy to not take your business" *due to ridiculous kick back on a crappy ass apartment.

[MindBomber]

Originally Posted by 6793026

to be honest. these are true stories from various realtors.

here are a few KEY things that if you don't have a realtor, you won't find out

1) 2 owners BEFORE the current one, it was actually a grow up and it didn't get rebuilt up to par...as for grow op, i personally have dealt with 2 properties that had grow ops and it wasn't on police radar and it never will.

I would estimate, I've been involved in the rebuilding of between 110-125 structures used to produce marijuana. I would further estimate, I've been involved in the rebuilding of an equal number of structures with severe fire, smoke, or water damage, which cause issues identical to that of marijuana production. Through the course of those contracts, I've dealt with major restoration companies, ordinary general contractors, and at times, I suspect, the growers themselves, but that's a story in itself. In every example, the structures have shown the same tell tale signs; those signs are not only readily accessible, but very obvious to any person with even the most minimal education on the matter. Once the signs of rebuilding have been identified, a building permit history search can identify whether it was repaired correctly, and anyone can do this in a matter of minutes.

On this point, I do not see a realtor providing a useful service. Every property should be inspected prior to finalizing purchase, and the former presence of a grow-op and the way it was repaired would always be identified at that stage regardless of a realtors involvement.

2) you might find out the minutes that in 5 months later, they will need you to chip in 20k for roof renos.

As azndude69 said: a thorough review of strata documents will disclose the same information accessible to a realtor, and if purchasing in an older building, an inspection could provide further re-assurance.

On this point, I only see a realtor providing a useful service to a person not willing to review strata documents themselves. The idea that any person would be willing to invest hundreds or thousands, or perhaps even millions in a property, not having personally read the strata documents, is absolute madness in my mind, though.

3) how to you write the T&C of the conditions of your transaction in your contract? eg// you got the house, and then 2 days later, the water tank breaks, the washer breaks... who the fuck do you go to complain?

4) market value. how do you find out without knowing the market value. If you don't have a realtor friend, how do you pull up the past 5 yrs of listings being sold, what's the city accessment? if you aren't a realtor, you can't find it (unless you hire an appraiser).

Again, while a realtor can provide these services other professionals offer them at much lower cost.

5) who's going to do inspections? Where are you going to find someone? google? CL? are they legit?...I've seen tons of inspectors that doesn't do a decent job, then again, there are always bad apples.

Firstly, a person mentally competent enough to purchase a property should be capable of vetting a professional without the assistance of a realtor.

To further that point, realtors have no innate abilities which enable them to assess the ability of a home inspector beyond those of the average home buyer. In order to seriously assess the quality of a persons work, one must have a knowledge of the field greater than the person being judged, otherwise recognizing where omissions or errors occur is impossible. A realtor with no knowledge of construction is not qualified to measure the ability of a pseudo construction expert.

Secondly, the majority of home inspectors possess cursory skills of little value. Wandering around a home, taking pictures, looking at things, and neatly presenting the information is not a difficult skill to learn or teach, because it doesn't require a deep understanding of the complexities involved with construction. I would never hire, nor recommend a person hire a home inspector. I would suggest, develop a relationship with a general contractor who has a small company and arrange to have them review the property; once well established, this working relationship will deliver dividends continuously long into the future.

6) **** someone DIED in the house. THERE WAS a murder in the house 5 years ago... NOT JOKING.

Unless the body is still hidden in the wall, I could give a damn; I'll play along though, since some superstitious people do.

First - Google the address, street name.
Second - Knock on the neighbors' doors, ask them about the neighborhood, and you'll find out more information than any realtor will ever know (are the neighbors friendly, does the city plow the street during heavy snowfalls, how about the general construction quality of homes in the neighborhood, did the former owner drown her kids in the bath tub?).

7) oil tank, if you have a house that is 1940 -1960, there will be OIL tanks to heat the house, there might be an oil tank that needs to be dug up which might cost 10-20k and if it leaks, you're FOOKED.

The possibility of an oil tank, lead paint, asbestos, knob and tube or aluminum wiring would be identified during any inspection without the aid of a realtor.

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by MindBomber

The possibility of an oil tank, lead paint, asbestos, knob and tube or aluminum wiring would be identified during any inspection without the aid of a realtor.

i agree with your comments of realtors having zero construction knowledge and not qualified to refer any construction expert. being buddies with a GC or someone of the like is a great suggestion.

i found that 2 guys that did renos to my home (both acquaintances of each other - diff trades) 1 of whom my friend used to build his home were better "inspectors" than the one i hired. they both offered/asked if they can to a walkthrough to review the home in general, pointed out some problems/possible problems (nothing to cry about) but i realized at that point the difference between an "inspector" and a tradesmen in construction.

anyhoo, i believe when you sign a contract to purchase the home the owner needs to sign off that they have no knowledge of an oil tank on the property, if it is found out later on i believe you can sue them for that amount and they can sue the previous owner and so on but i'm not sure if that's true as i've never had to do that before.

[6793026]

i agree with a lot of hte comments here.

we are talking two best case scenarios here. for those posted, great feedback and from your expertize, you are more than capable of identifiying the issues. However, if it was your mother in law, you would be like FML, what did I get myself into.

You would be the one reading over all the minutes from the townhouse they are going ot purchase.

lastly, as for the oil tank issue; if the realtor didn't disclose it to you, or warn you, you have the option to sue (worse case) and he would be liable. As for say dish washer, it's all working fine during day of inspection, and after you move in 2 days later, you find out few more things that didn't work, you always have a realtor to bitch about.

all in all, it's totally do-able to eliminate the realtor, jut like how you can do your own taxes, but for hte heck of it, as I'm not an expert, I'm more than happy to hire an accountant to do it for me properly.

[iEatClams]

tried to do a low ball offer + negotiate a kick back but owner wouldnt accept. ohh well.

[4444]

i didn't read the above. but i would say, why not get your own realtor's license, isn't it literally a couple weekend courses and not much money? Do you need to pay annual dues like you do for a professional designation? I assume you wouldn't have access to the insider info realtors have (unlike in the US where all information is free... i hate this country for that)

otherwise, ya do it yourself, make sure you have a good real estate lawyer to check all agreements, a good, trustworthy inspector, and go for it - you will save 1/2 of the realtor fees - that is, ensure the selling realtor doesn't just pocket 100%, i have no doubt the greaseball motherfuckers would try it.

i hate realtors, they will be extinct one day soon (i would love to start a flat fee based realtor style business, where you would just have the inspection and legal work taken care of for $xxx - not commissioned based BS)

[miss_crayon]

1)Buyers don't need to pay a realtor commission at all.
2) I really feel sorry for those who had a bad experience with realtors but I can ensure you there are good ones out there that will go beyond the job of "just your realtor." Many people go into the business thinking it's easy money and are usually the ones who make a bad name for us. It makes me really sad to see people hate on our profession when there are hardworking and caring realtor's that do their job just like any other service based rep.
Posted via RS Mobile

[MindBomber]

Originally Posted by MindBomber

Secondly, the majority of home inspectors possess cursory skills of little value. Wandering around a home, taking pictures, looking at things, and neatly presenting the information is not a difficult skill to learn or teach, because it doesn't require a deep understanding of the complexities involved with construction. I would never hire, nor recommend a person hire a home inspector. I would suggest, develop a relationship with a general contractor who has a small company and arrange to have them review the property; once well established, this working relationship will deliver dividends continuously long into the future.

In today's episode of CBC Marketplace, four home inspectors tour a property which was once a grow operation. Three inspectors claim industry standard credentials; two are "certified," one is a "registered." One inspector claims to be an engineer; obviously, a false claim. One inspector had visited the property prior, his credentials were not noted.

The property has signs which very clearly indicate its nefarious past, including: a large hole in the base of a fireplace, a series of large circular patches in the ceilings, a large amount of black mold in the attic (grow ops produce large amounts of moisture, fostering this). These signs are clearly visible and apparent, but none of the inspectors recognized the property was once a grow op.

One inspector suggested, the hole in the fireplace was because an insert had been removed and a replacement not installed. The next inspector suggested, the hole in the fireplace was intended to draw air from the basement; that's too absurd to even attempt to explain. None recognized it as a been a sign of a grow op, none (iirc) considered it a serious problem.

The inspectors proceeded to the attic, where black mold was growing along the trusses. Two inspectors noticed the presence of mold; one explained it was mildew, nothing to worry about; the other explained it was mold, but again nothing to worry about. Attics are ventilated spaces; mold and mildew will never accumulate on the decking, trusses, or insulation when the air is circulating. The presence of mold and mildew severely compromises the indoor air quality, and the removal and repair process could easily top $12,000-$15,000 for an average sized home. None of the inspectors understood it to be a problem associated with grow ops or a substantial issue in itself.

I believe you can see the video on CBC's website.

Please, never hire a home inspector who cannot demonstrate substantial prior construction experience.

[GLOW]

So are you volunteering to be the RS home inspector?

Possible side business for you

[VR6GTI]

Thread has some good info, thanks