BC Election 2013

[StylinRed]

well considering the NDP is and has been proposing a stop to corporate funding of Unions I imagine that your accusations may be unfounded since it would seem they aren't as "buddy buddy" anymore

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

well considering the NDP is and has been proposing a stop to corporate funding of Unions I imagine that your accusations may be unfounded since it would seem they aren't as "buddy buddy" anymore

Not neccessarily. The NDP does well in private fundraising. More than all the other parties. Make no mistake, its a tactic like any other. Removing corporate funding kills the other parties far more than union money hurts them.

In the last election, the proposed funding formula would have left them with 400k more than the liberals, solving a previous deficit-as I read in 24hrs over lunch.
Posted via RS Mobile

[BurnoutBinLaden]

Originally Posted by Gridlock

Not neccessarily. The NDP does well in private fundraising. More than all the other parties.

It helps to find candidates that are seen in their community, rather than just being in their riding office a few days a month and phoning it in. Raj Chounan and Kathy Corrigan do a lot of work with ethnic communities and refugees (the Edmonds area especially has a large number of refugees).

[StylinRed]

CBC just had a "who's telling the truth" type report analyzing claims by the Lberals/NDP

Christy with her tv spots noting that BC is top in Job Creation in the country and the Dix saying we're closer to Last and in fact have lost over 30 thousand jobs

Well it turns out Dix is right and BC at best over the years still wasn't at the top for Job Creation

oh Christy

[Akinari]

This will be the first year I'm eligible to vote as I would've turned 19 before I cast my ballot, and I know Christy Clark is definitely not getting my vote.

[Gridlock]

NDP to raise welfare rates, pledges monthly family bonus | Globalnews.ca

I'm calling it now. Not a chance of a balanced budget within the next 4 year term.

[Mr.HappySilp]

^^ this is what I mean NDP only helps the poor , low income, tax the bussiness, the richa nd does nothing for the hard working citizens of BC like us young folks and even try to tax us more.

Is like 1990's all over again dirving out jobs and people and destroying our economy (which btw is not doing great to beign with). Which will dig us into a deeper hole.

EDIT: Of course there is more poor people than rich people so baisally they are just trying to get voted in and screw everyone else but the poor.

[Gridlock]

Seems to me to be a lot of the same old play book.

I fear that more and more people are going to vote NDP just under the guise of "we need change" and really regret their purchase in 2014ish.

Damnit, I'm so pissed with the liberals.

[BurnoutBinLaden]

Originally Posted by Gridlock

NDP to raise welfare rates, pledges monthly family bonus | Globalnews.ca

I'm calling it now. Not a chance of a balanced budget within the next 4 year term.

This article expands on the details: Dix rolls out NDP social development platform - British Columbia - CBC News

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by Gridlock

Seems to me to be a lot of the same old play book.

I fear that more and more people are going to vote NDP just under the guise of "we need change" and really regret their purchase in 2014ish.

Damnit, I'm so pissed with the liberals.

Fuck. And I was so hopeful too.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I think those people need it. But I also think that when it comes to governmental collective bargaining ...

Oh sheize.

[Great68]

The liberals would probably have had more support for this election if they just stuck to their guns with the NDP, instead of Crusty Clark trying to get save votes by people a referendum.

Instead, the people who were against the HST stayed angry, and the people who were for the HST became angry.

For the island being predominately an NDP stronghold, it could mean that some capital spending comes our way instead of all going to the mainland for the next while. The island got fuck all for capital projects for a long time. This would be great for me, as my company does tons of work for the government.

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

^^ this is what I mean NDP only helps the poor , low income, tax the bussiness, the richa nd does nothing for the hard working citizens of BC like us young folks and even try to tax us more.

Is like 1990's all over again dirving out jobs and people and destroying our economy (which btw is not doing great to beign with). Which will dig us into a deeper hole.

EDIT: Of course there is more poor people than rich people so baisally they are just trying to get voted in and screw everyone else but the poor.

Uh... improving education and improving the standards of the poor and lower income isn't only the right thing to do but it helps the entire province as a result social benefits is what makes canada canada if you want to ignore that like the Liberals have been doing for well over a decade you're not Canadian imo
you can pretend to be concerned and act like the Liberals "we'll get around to it" but never do but that just makes you an asshole

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

Uh... improving education and improving the standards of the poor and lower income isn't only the right thing to do but it helps the entire province as a result social benefits is what makes canada canada if you want to ignore that like the Liberals have been doing for well over a decade you're not Canadian imo
you can pretend to be concerned and act like the Liberals "we'll get around to it" but never do but that just makes you an asshole

For the purposes of this thread, can we all really try to leave the personal attacks out of it? I envisioned having a thread where we could talk about the election, and the lies..sorry, promises beforehand and compile all these little newsbite articles into one area. Maybe it convinces a person of a different party, maybe it doesn't. Maybe one person gets inspired to actually vote, who knows.

But there is a clear difference between attacking the agenda, and attacking the person.

There are always people that disagree with you. My god, there was people cheering at the states at the idea of a person without medical insurance dying as a result. If the person is so diametrically opposed to what you believe in...arguing on the internet isn't going to help change their minds

That said, I think there are things to be gained from having different parties, and different people in power for different times. There is no denying that the liberals are not a party of the lower tiered income people. Look at the ridings that traditionally go one party or another, compared to average earnings in said riding to have that clearly illustrated.

So there is benefit to having a party like the NDP come in and think about a different group of people that may have been marginalized in previous adminstrations: Great68 speaks about the island in need of capital projects. Others speak of lower income people needing a break.

I look at: show me the money.

I'm sorry, but I still have yet to get over the point they glossed over of saying, "the liberals actual deficit is 790 million in the hole(without selling land to make it balanced) so we're going to use that as a benchmark and just not go any worse.

That is fucking huge. And as Graeme said, all those fine union folk are looking for a pay bump too.

Where my mind differs is how much that should be, and when. I don't believe in this race to the top in union wages.

[Gridlock]

Liberals love the rich. NDP love the poor.

No one gives one sweet ass fuck about the poor stiff that is too rich for the free ride, and not rich enough to buy his own.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Gridlock

Liberals love the rich. NDP love the poor.

No one gives one sweet ass fuck about the poor stiff that is too rich for the free ride, and not rich enough to buy his own.

Unfortunately, I think that phenomenon is happening all over the world. Wealth disparity is only getting worse, and the middle class is getting squeezed out everywhere.

[quasi]

If you're unemployed or working in a Union position the NDP is definitely to your advantage. If your in the private sector or have a business they'll more likely then not be to your detriment.

The liberals on the other hand did a piss poor job the last little while and are nothing to be proud of or write home about. The shift from one wing to another is fairly natural, no party will last forever.

The NDP will win they'll do there stint, probably 2 terms then they'll be turfed and the cycle will continue as always.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

Uh... improving education and improving the standards of the poor and lower income isn't only the right thing to do but it helps the entire province as a result social benefits is what makes canada canada if you want to ignore that like the Liberals have been doing for well over a decade you're not Canadian imo
you can pretend to be concerned and act like the Liberals "we'll get around to it" but never do but that just makes you an asshole

We do not need more useless grads with arts degree or even Computer Science, CGA. We need more skill wonders in BC right now auto mech, plumber, electric tech etc etc...... You don't need a MBA or a unversity degree for these jobs.

Is everyone for themselves, I rather see tax money goes into programs that will actually benfit and get people on their feet rather than free hand out (as what NDP loves to do). Instead of just giving money maybe try to help the low income family. We can say provide free day care for single famil so the mom/dad can work while their kids are in daycare. Dad/Mom gets job so they aren't relying on hand outs, Kids is n day care so they are safe and since daycare needs people = create mor ejobs for BC. There are lots of other things NDP can do to help rather than just handing out money. What they are doing is the easiest way, a band aid solution and everyone loves getting extra money.

I am not saying the Liberals are exatly good as well. They have done some pretty bad job and frankly I don't like it as well.

They are all evil is just which one benfit you more or have less impact on your wallet and so far I see none of them working in my favor.

[Gridlock]

This isn't to single out the NDP, but more the tactics.

Gary Mason: NDP letter asking for donations has some businesses seeing red - The Globe and Mail

This shit here? bad taste dude.

NDP Leader Adrian Dix likes to talk about a balanced approached to governing. It now appears that philosophy extends to fundraising as well.

Some members of the B.C. business community are questioning the message they say is embedded in a fundraising letter that the New Democrats have been sending out to people who have financially supported only the B.C. Liberals in the past.

The missives are being sent out under the name of Jan O’Brien, provincial secretary of the party, but Mr. Dix’s imprimatur is prominent. The letter begins by informing the recipient that building a relationship with the business community is a top priority of the NDP Leader. It talks about how the prospective B.C. premier believes a strong private sector is key to economic development in the province – in other words, he is not a wild-eyed advocate of the communist collective.

And just so the recipients understand they would not be the first business leaders to make such a donation, the communique makes it clear that Mr. Dix has appreciated the support he’s received from other members of the financial sector. In an attempt to dispel any concern that an NDP government would favour unions, the letter says a Dix administration would include everyone at the table.

Then Ms. O’Brien gets to the point.

The letter documents the donation total that the recipient – or his or her company – has made to the Liberal Party over a specified number of years.

“It is our hope that you will adopt a balanced approach to your support in the lead up to the election in May,” it states. “I am asking your organization to make a contribution in the range of $5,000 now to show your commitment to a balanced approach to government.”

It then provides a link to a secure website where the person can immediately make a contribution.

At another time, those receiving a letter of this nature might have thought nothing of it. But in the context of the current election, one in which the New Democrats are decided favourites, it takes on a different hue.

Those getting such a dispatch might be forgiven for thinking they were being sent a pointed directive: We know who you are, we know who you’ve supported in the past, and it might be wise given the current political environment if you made a little donation to our party.

“You could say this is normal politics or you could say it’s a not-so-subtle strong-armed tactic,” said one business person who received the letter but did not want his name used. “[It’s implying], ‘You have never supported us before, but we’re going to win, and we will remember who did and who did not help us this time.’”

Another business person characterized the letter as a “political shakedown.”

It will not surprise you that the NDP says that was not the intent at all. The letter was simply intended, Ms. O’Brien told me, to reach out to corporations that have shown in the past they are willing to donate to political parties to see if they would consider the NDP.

“As part of the democratic process, political parties fund their campaigns with political donations,” Ms. O’Brien said. “But people have a choice, absolutely. We’ve just asked them to take a balanced approach to campaign donations.”

But that’s not what the letter says. It effectively states that the company should donate to the NDP as well as the Liberals in the name of taking a “balanced approach to government” – not campaign donations. Ms. O’Brien did not seem completely comfortable trying to explain what the letter meant in that regard. Or that it implies that people shouldn’t have a choice – that they should donate to both main parties.

And, of course, that’s wrong. People should be able to donate to whomever they want, and they certainly shouldn’t be leaned on by officials of parties that may soon take office and told that they should send some cash their way.

If there is any good news in all this, it’s the fact that should the NDP form government, it has vowed that donations from corporations and unions will be outlawed. Let’s hope letters such as the one Ms. O’Brien authored will be a thing of the past as well.

[MindBomber]

Normally, I develop my political allegiances early in an election campaign.

I'm still confused here, though. I'm not feeling the NDP, I don't trust the Liberals (although, they're usually my go-to strategic voting party), and I don't live in a riding where Greens have a legitimate shot, so I'm left struggling to make a decision. I might actually abstain this election (I've voted at least once in every election since I became eligible).

The Communist Party (I know, I know, hear me out) actually has some very interesting points, at least they've perked my interest. I'm not sure how'd they suggest paying for some of these initiatives, but many are good and nearly free and others would show long term ROI, and others would actually bring revenue and jobs back to the province.

George Gidora: Dump the B.C. Liberals, fight for real change, vote Communist on May 14

THE MAY 14 B.C. election comes at a time of capitalist crisis and “austerity” across the planet. Corporate profits are breaking records, while wages and pensions are slashed. The gap between the ultra rich and working people keeps getting wider. Social and equality gains won by decades of struggle are being rolled back. Billions suffer poverty, hunger, and disease, while the U.S. and its NATO allies waste a trillion dollars a year on militarism and war. Climate change is devastating the environment, while governments block serious action to cut greenhouse gas emissions.

Here in British Columbia, the “best place on Earth”—which was stolen from indigenous peoples and then looted in the mad rush to exploit workers for corporate profits—the story is the same.

Gordon Campbell’s tax cuts shifted billions from the public treasury into the bank accounts of the wealthy. After spending $6 billion to host the Olympics, B.C. still has the second highest child poverty rate in Canada. More than 200,000 workers are jobless, schools and day cares keep closing, housing costs are astronomical, and thousands remain homeless. The salmon fishery is in crisis, raw log exports have skyrocketed, and “fracking”, tar sands pipelines, and tankers pose grave environmental dangers. In short, the B.C. Liberals have been a three-term disaster.

Working people in B.C. face a crucial choice: keep waging defensive battles, or unite and fight back! Our collective resistance against capitalism, militarism, racism, and environmental destruction continues every day, in workplaces, schools, and neighbourhoods, from the big cities to island communities, the Interior and the North. On May 14, we have another chance to resist, this time at the ballot box. We can’t let the Liberals and their corporate friends back into office again.

Many voters see the NDP as the only vehicle to change British Columbia, since Adrian Dix has taken up some important issues and demands. But the NDP deliberately plays down popular expectations, warning us not to demand big changes.

Electing an NDP government is not enough to reverse the right-wing policies imposed by Campbell and Christy Clark and it won’t stop the capitalist assault on workers, indigenous peoples, women, students, seniors, and the environment. We need to build a much broader struggle for a “people’s alternative” to corporate greed.

A vote for a Communist candidate is not “wasted”; it’s the most powerful statement you can make on election day. Electing even one Communist would give all working people a strong voice in the legislature. A larger Communist vote will help set the stage for bigger popular struggles, no matter which party governs in Victoria. The Communist party fights for human and planetary survival against the threat of capitalist destruction. We call for socialism, a society in which the economy is owned and democratically controlled by the people, not by private capitalists, in a world where exploitation, hunger, injustice, and war have been replaced by human freedom, equality, peace, and genuine environmental sustainability.

In this election, candidates for the Communist Party of B.C. are campaigning on a platform for radical change. We would:

1 • Restore pre-2001 tax rates on the wealthy and the corporations, which would add $2 billion annually to provincial revenues.

2 • Adopt Labour Code amendments to protect and enhance the rights to organize, bargain collectively, and strike.

3 • Block “fracking” and tar sands pipelines.

4 • End raw log exports.

5 • Purchase 1,000 new transit buses and institute a $1 single-zone fare for the Lower Mainland.

6 • Halt the “run of the rivers” giveaway to private interests.

7 • Stop P3 projects and privatization in the health, education, and transportation sectors.

8 • Scrap the Trade, Investment and Labour Mobility Agreement, and demand Canada’s withdrawal from the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement with the European Union, the Trans Pacific Partnership, NAFTA, and other globalization agreements.

9 • Build 5,000 new social housing units annually.

10 • Restore $250 million annually to the public school system across B.C.

11 • Raise social assistance rates by 50 percent.

12 • Increase the minimum wage to $18 per hour.

13 • Roll back postsecondary tuition fees, and expand apprenticeship programs.

14 • Abolish MSP premiums and other health-care user fees.

15 • Legislate full recognition of aboriginal title to unceded territories.

16 • Enact a democratic “mixed member” proportional representation electoral system.

17 • Guarantee full Labour Code protections for agricultural labourers, migrant workers, and temporary foreign workers.

18 • Direct all school boards to adopt policies to protect LGBTQ students and staff.

Candidates for the Communist Party of B.C. include Peter Marcus (Vancouver-Mount Pleasant), George Gidora (Delta North), Kimball Cariou (North Vancouver-Lonsdale), and John Shaw (Victoria-Beacon Hill).

[Graeme S]

I like the party platform, but that would dig us WAY way into debt. For once, I can actually say "those commies are pretty much out of their minds" without being facetious.


Though I am a fan of the tax and minimum wage issues. Raw logs too.

Sigh. I wish that the elections were less about fundraising and party membership and more about actual frakking issues. ...Not fracking issues. Frakking issues.




Yeah.

[MindBomber]

I agree - 5, 9, 10, 11, 14 are simply too expensive.

I'm a serious supporter of 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 13, 15, 16, 17, 18, and I appreciate the attention 9, 11, 12 gives to issues which I support, but believe less fiscally demanding attention is needed than what is proposed (mostly restructuring).

[godwin]

Honestly we have plenty of gas already that we don't need to resort to fracking.. let the Americans or countries who are desperate be pioneers (especially Europe would want to escape Russia's grip).. We should invest in biogas instead since we are pretty big ranching / dairy province. However we should map where the reserves are. Right now people prospect don't need to give detailed information back to the Gov.

Raw logs, NAFTA etc are all the in one lump.. You can demand, but Stephen Harper will laugh in the your face.

5000 social housing unit a year? That's a sure way to kill Vancouver's real estate market and credit rating.. Where are they going to build it.. along Highway 16?

[godwin]

You guys do know it is the same play that the Fed Conservatives played on Fed Liberals right?

Originally Posted by StylinRed

well considering the NDP is and has been proposing a stop to corporate funding of Unions I imagine that your accusations may be unfounded since it would seem they aren't as "buddy buddy" anymore

[BurnoutBinLaden]

Mixed member proportional representation is what they use in the German parliament. It's way better than the dinosaur FPTP electoral system here.

[BurnoutBinLaden]

Originally Posted by godwin

You guys do know it is the same play that the Fed Conservatives played on Fed Liberals right?

Actually IIRC the Tories removed per vote subsidies. They have huge bases in the oil sector (obviously) and the religious right in Alberta and Ontario which give them a leg up on campaign fundraising. Closer to the American system (think of Citizens United)

Ironically the Liberals used to be the party of big business.