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Except for when you blocked him? Not ragging on you or anything but make sure what you say is consistent so we don't doubt you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Limitless
I did not block him to block communication, it was just out of anger and I didn't want it on facebook anymore. Possibly 25% of our overall communication was done through facebook, most was done through phone. I answered all of his calls and texts and I still have up to this day.
No worries, the reason why I wanted this thread to stay up is to clear up any confusion people may have. As I said earlier throughout the past few pages too, I did block him but on facebook. He could have called or texted me anytime, he has my phone number and we have done most of our communication through the phone, facebook was just every now and then when it was more convenient. I blocked him out of anger, but I still reply to his texts and calls if he wanted to communicate. I still haven't unblocked him on facebook, but we have been talking on the phone the entire time, including now.
I really tried to restraint from posting in this thread. As I read through the pages, I just get more annoyed at the fact that a whole lot of you throw the word scammer out @ limitless and Eric. Off course everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
I just wanted to post here to say that I for one feels for Limitless on this issue. Not saying that he has done nothing wrong. But I can easily see how he came up with the $800 charge. I dont want to repeat what has been repeated 100Xs in this thread. He just added up all the cost of the materials + all the time he would spent on the project (honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he and eric both charged something like $10/hr and still ended up like a final $800 number)
30 hours of $10/hr for 2 people is already $600
Dont bring up how a "professional" wouldnt need 60 man hours for this project. Yes a professional probably would not need even 10 hours, but with Limitless/Eric skill level, maybe they just concluded it is a 60 hour job and therefore $600 labor will be added to the total cost.
I think most of us post our own projects of our own cars on facebook/revscene member journal or whatnot. There will always be someone who you barely know who stumbles upon your blog/picture album/journal. They will like what they see and asks you how much can you do it for their car?
I spoiler tagged a personal experience, because I know the post is already getting kinda long
Spoiler!
I sometimes wrap roofs or hoods for complete strangers, (most of them are people who randomly has a mutual friend on facebook and somehow stumbles on my facebook car project album) but look I am no SR, I am not a professional. I charge them literally like $12/hr and the cost sometimes goes to like $200 for a roof of a C63 coupe. People will be like wow shit son that was like what? $60 worth of vinyl and he charged you $200? Would you call me a scammer? I did take 10 hours our of my free time to wrap his car, I did tell him it would cost $200 ahead of time and he agreed to it. He takes the car to me, I have to wash it, dry it, apply the vinyl, and trim the edges. It looks fast on video, or maybe I have a terrible technique, but time is time, and in my eyes $200 for a roof is very reasonable. If MM design only costs $150 makes absolutely no difference in my eyes
At least in my opinion, both the OP, Limitless and Eric were fully opened and no one was intentionally trying to fool anyone out of any sort of money. So the word scammer shouldnt be thrown around so lightly. I wouldnt categorized them as the same as scaomothny LMK xD
lesson learned all around.
hehe sorry about the long rant!
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I really tried to restraint from posting in this thread. As I read through the pages, I just get more annoyed at the fact that a whole lot of you throw the word scammer out @ limitless and Eric. Off course everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
I just wanted to post here to say that I for one feels for Limitless on this issue. Not saying that he has done nothing wrong. But I can easily see how he came up with the $800 charge. I dont want to repeat what has been repeated 100Xs in this thread. He just added up all the cost of the materials + all the time he would spent on the project (honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he and eric both charged something like $10/hr and still ended up like a final $800 number)
30 hours of $10/hr for 2 people is already $600
Dont bring up how a "professional" wouldnt need 60 man hours for this project. Yes a professional probably would not need even 10 hours, but with Limitless/Eric skill level, maybe they just concluded it is a 60 hour job and therefore $600 labor will be added to the total cost.
I think most of us post our own projects of our own cars on facebook/revscene member journal or whatnot. There will always be someone who you barely know who stumbles upon your blog/picture album/journal. They will like what they see and asks you how much can you do it for their car?
I spoiler tagged a personal experience, because I know the post is already getting kinda long
Spoiler!
I sometimes wrap roofs or hoods for complete strangers, (most of them are people who randomly has a mutual friend on facebook and somehow stumbles on my facebook car project album) but look I am no SR, I am not a professional. I charge them literally like $12/hr and the cost sometimes goes to like $200 for a roof of a C63 coupe. People will be like wow shit son that was like what? $60 worth of vinyl and he charged you $200? Would you call me a scammer? I did take 10 hours our of my free time to wrap his car, I did tell him it would cost $200 ahead of time and he agreed to it. He takes the car to me, I have to wash it, dry it, apply the vinyl, and trim the edges. It looks fast on video, or maybe I have a terrible technique, but time is time, and in my eyes $200 for a roof is very reasonable. If MM design only costs $150 makes absolutely no difference in my eyes
At least in my opinion, both the OP, Limitless and Eric were fully opened and no one was intentionally trying to fool anyone out of any sort of money. So the word scammer shouldnt be thrown around so lightly. I wouldnt categorized them as the same as scaomothny LMK xD
I dont know about trying to justify the charges... Limitless posted something about it not ending up being 5$ an hour, and dark0821 goes with the whole hourly thing...
If you have no fucking experience and the guy wants to give you money to do it, shouldnt a more fair price be a quote at a real shop - a certain percentage that you think is fair? If you charge hourly it makes no fucking sense because you spend more time on it, if anything it should be straight up flat rate @ 12 bucks an hour or something.
Read this thread instead of playing Dota.
I dont know about trying to justify the charges... Limitless posted something about it not ending up being 5$ an hour, and dark0821 goes with the whole hourly thing...
If you have no fucking experience and the guy wants to give you money to do it, shouldnt a more fair price be a quote at a real shop - a certain percentage that you think is fair? If you charge hourly it makes no fucking sense because you spend more time on it, if anything it should be straight up flat rate @ 12 bucks an hour or something.
But the problem is this, not me, not limitless, not eric was promoting about our skill sets; and wanting customers. Be vinyl wrapping, headlight baking, led wiring. We are all just minding our own business, these people come to us, not the other way around. And lets face it, who wouldnt want some extra cash in their pocket (ofc I dont know Limitless or Eric, So i am just strictly speaking for myself).
As far as me reading this thread, I think I can say, I do have some experience wraping vinyl, limitless have some experience baking headlights, eric has some experience wiring leds.
Its these experiences that we have that forms the basis for our cost/profit/formula. Because we know from our OWN EXPERIENCE how long a task takes for US to do.
I dont want to repeat myself, but if the consumer chooses ME/Limitless/Eric over others to do up their car. Than it is irrelevant what the market charges, because we must figure out a way to make sure that we actually just doesnt volunteer our time for complete strangers. I am not arguing if Limitless/Eric over charged the OP or not. I am just putting a side of the story from Limitless point of view because I have had similar experiences. I just have a problem of the forum members who calls people like me or limitless scammers. How did he scam the OP out of anything.
I included another example lol just for giggles
Spoiler!
If I walked into futureshop wanting to drop $400 on a graphics card for my computer, the sales associate is not going to tell me that NCIX has the same product for $300. I think its the consumers responsibility to do his research. I am just looking out for myself, its just like Futureshop has a formula to figure out why it needs the graphics card to be sold @ $400 to make money. I also have a model so I dont work for free/close to it. Remember this is for complete strangers, not friends, not family no nothing.
lol... I must be on something to feel this emotional towards a forum discussion LOLOLOL
__________________ Proud member of GRAPEGreat Revscene Action Photographers Enthusiasts
AE101 Rolla 96' //Sold
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GD 6MT Elantra 13' //Sold
CZ4A 5MT GSR Evo 08' // Totalled
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But if you do work for someone who approaches you your concern should be cost/skill rather than cost/profit.
If someone comes up to me and asks me to paint their mirrors, the immediate thought is cost of materials + labour I think it would take and how much I think my labour is worth hourly. Hypothetically $50 paint + $12 bucks an hour and it would take maybe 20 hours to get it sanded, primed, sealed, paint, clear cause I am a noob (for the sake of this thread). Round it off, "ill do them for $290"
"But this shop is charging me $200"
"Then do it at the shop, My price is based on how long I think it would take me."
So yeah charging hourly makes no sense, market price is completely relevant to be fair to both consumer and producer. If you feel that you need to
Quote:
Originally Posted by dark0821
figure out a way to make sure that we actually just doesnt volunteer our time for complete strangers.
And that price ends up being higher or similar to what a body shop would charge; guess what? Yeah send them to a body shop, your time isnt worth shit if you have no experience, its about the job. Did you do the job well? No? Then do it again. Did you fuck it up so bad that the entire unit needs to be replaced? Too bad eat that cost, you took the job.
It isnt that rare to find in real body shops them having to lose money on a job because their technician fucked up. So why cant you as an amateur accidentally volunteer your time due to a few fuck ups on a job that you accepted money for.
Just to clarify, I am completely fine with people doing work unprofessionally. And I am even more fine with fuck ups due to this, or delays, or unexpected things happening, or unhappy "customers". Its how people decide to price things, what people feel their time is worth, and how it apparently isnt market price related, is what I have an issue with.
Thread summary: "That backyard mechanic doesn't do business the same way I would do business, so he must be a douche and a scammer, because obviously I'm the only person who knows how this business must be conducted and everyone must follow my lead."
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzira
Does anyone know how many to a signature?
..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianrietta
Not a sebberry post goes by where I don't frown and think to myself "so..?"
As has been said though the air is pretty much cleared here, and both the op and limitless know that it was a mistake and are trying to make it right. No need for insults, although the 69ing on a pile of OP's money made me laugh my ass off.
__________________
98 technoviolet M3/2/5
Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfever
Westopher is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsy82
seems like you got a dick up your ass well..get that checked
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkwax
Well.. I’d hate to be the first to say it, but Westopher is correct.
Willing to sell a family member for a few minutes on RS
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__________________
98 technoviolet M3/2/5
Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfever
Westopher is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsy82
seems like you got a dick up your ass well..get that checked
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkwax
Well.. I’d hate to be the first to say it, but Westopher is correct.
But if you do work for someone who approaches you your concern should be cost/skill rather than cost/profit.
If someone comes up to me and asks me to paint their mirrors, the immediate thought is cost of materials + labour I think it would take and how much I think my labour is worth hourly. Hypothetically $50 paint + $12 bucks an hour and it would take maybe 20 hours to get it sanded, primed, sealed, paint, clear cause I am a noob (for the sake of this thread). Round it off, "ill do them for $290"
"But this shop is charging me $200"
"Then do it at the shop, My price is based on how long I think it would take me."
So yeah charging hourly makes no sense, market price is completely relevant to be fair to both consumer and producer. If you feel that you need to
And that price ends up being higher or similar to what a body shop would charge; guess what? Yeah send them to a body shop, your time isnt worth shit if you have no experience, its about the job. Did you do the job well? No? Then do it again. Did you fuck it up so bad that the entire unit needs to be replaced? Too bad eat that cost, you took the job.
It isnt that rare to find in real body shops them having to lose money on a job because their technician fucked up. So why cant you as an amateur accidentally volunteer your time due to a few fuck ups on a job that you accepted money for.
Just to clarify, I am completely fine with people doing work unprofessionally. And I am even more fine with fuck ups due to this, or delays, or unexpected things happening, or unhappy "customers". Its how people decide to price things, what people feel their time is worth, and how it apparently isnt market price related, is what I have an issue with.
We did mess up the headlight, and we did redo it right away without saying anything except for sorry to the OP because he had to leave his headlight with us again while we redo it.
Yes market price is related if I were to go and advertise my work wanting to make money from a business-like point of view. But if someone comes up to me and asks me how much I would charge if they were to pay me for the work, I would give a price depending on how much time I think I would take myself to do the work. If the market price is lower than my price, then so be it, get it done elsewhere because I am not really looking for the job in the first place. If my price were to be less than $10 an hour due to the market price and my lack of skill/speed to do it the same as professional shops out there, I don't see why I would want to work for that amount of money when I could be doing something else. Which is why again, I was asked for a price, and I gave one judging on the time it would take me personally to do it. If it could be done elsewhere for less time then by all means go for it, I am not trying to sell anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme S
Limitless, clear your PM box please. Delete your sentbox if you need everything in your inbox.
^ hahaha Limitless gets my philosophy completely. Market value is there for people who wants to compete in the said market. While me and Limitless are not even "in the market in the first place"
btw Limitless I think I spotted you on 41st near Victoria around 1040amish today =P
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3german
But if you do work for someone who approaches you your concern should be cost/skill rather than cost/profit.
....
Its how people decide to price things, what people feel their time is worth, and how it apparently isnt market price related, is what I have an issue with.
I just want to say that is exactly why i am NOT in the vinyl wrapping business, and/or I would dare to say why Limitless is NOT in the headlight baking profession. Because why would we take on a job that "according to market value" will land us less than minimum wage. You make it sound like its our responsibility to refer everyone who approach us to other people because our lack of skill hinders us to do business in our skill sets. We cant stop people from approaching us, if they DO APPROACH us, I think I am entitled to charge whatever much I want as long as the customer has a full understanding of what he is paying for. If the customer feels like we are expensive he is more than welcome to go to someone else. I even tell my customers to call MM design LOL. No joke. I dont want to waste time, and I am sure you dont too.
The older I get the more I feel like my time is worth a lot of money. And just for the sake of the argument, I feel like my time is worth alot more than $12/hour. I take most of these jobs just out of the good will that I get a chance to check out some cars.
__________________ Proud member of GRAPEGreat Revscene Action Photographers Enthusiasts
AE101 Rolla 96' //Sold
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^ hahaha Limitless gets my philosophy completely. Market value is there for people who wants to compete in the said market. While me and Limitless are not even "in the market in the first place"
btw Limitless I think I spotted you on 41st near Victoria around 1040amish today =P
Yes exactly that, except I can't word it properly lol. Yup that was me, was going to study for an exam in the afternoon but ended up on here most of the morning
EDIT: If it matters... this is the LED thing we did, not just a strip on the bottom of the headlight as some of you may think
I am willing to bet Limitless never told OP that he has no experience with doing Acuras, and only basic shit on his own car. He probably said something along the lines of "Oh yeah thats no problem". Leading OP to believe Limitless knew what he was doing, and he has admitted he doesnt. Lying to make money and then doing a shody job is scamming as far as I can tell. OP clearly seemed FOBish, and I bet they recognized that and took advantage of the situation.
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