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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
I think Torts is smarter than Crawford or AV in terms of getting players to play the ways he wants them to play. For example, I remember a game this season where Kassian was benched for an entire third period and had less than 10 minutes of ice time because he was so bloody lazy on the backcheck.
All coaches, including Torts, can control ice time for players, even bench them, to send a stern message in response to a player's laziness or poor performance.
He's not all yelling and screaming as a coach. He knows how to push the right buttons for players with different personalities.
Coaches at the root of it are just motivators and people managers. It's easy to take Torts' recent success, especially how different he and AV are, and claim him to be a genius. Keep in mind Torts has also taken mid-game timeouts in the past with zero effect. The Canucks were also *this* close to giving up a goal immediately after the timeout. Just like anything else in the game, you have to have a bit of luck on your side.
I wouldn't say Torts is any more intelligent than AV or Crawford. They each have their own way of approaching the game, the players, and drawing out a game plan. AV is a smart man in his own right no doubt, but stubborn as hell from what we've seen, and clearly lost the room (and AV wasn't able to adapt to his team's changing needs, not to mention the other teams' adjustments to counter the Canucks' game). Torts may be able to send guys messages by benching them, calling them out, etc etc. It can just as easily backfire like it did when he was with the Rangers and Richards/Gaborik. I don't envy any NHL coach's job, have to draw up game plans, motivate (baby sit) entitled players. Regardless of how good of a coach you are, your shelf life with any team is finite.
The one thing I know is that Lu has been making *those* saves of late to keep the team in the game at key times, those same saves that people always bitch about him not being able to make when he's in a funk or luck isn't fully on his side. It's almost like Lu is expected to make all those saves, not really getting the credit he deserves when he pulls out a big save
Coaches at the root of it are just motivators and people managers. It's easy to take Torts' recent success, especially how different he and AV are, and claim him to be a genius. Keep in mind Torts has also taken mid-game timeouts in the past with zero effect. The Canucks were also *this* close to giving up a goal immediately after the timeout. Just like anything else in the game, you have to have a bit of luck on your side.
I wouldn't say Torts is any more intelligent than AV or Crawford. They each have their own way of approaching the game, the players, and drawing out a game plan. AV is a smart man in his own right no doubt, but stubborn as hell from what we've seen, and clearly lost the room (and AV wasn't able to adapt to his team's changing needs, not to mention the other teams' adjustments to counter the Canucks' game). Torts may be able to send guys messages by benching them, calling them out, etc etc. It can just as easily backfire like it did when he was with the Rangers and Richards/Gaborik. I don't envy any NHL coach's job, have to draw up game plans, motivate (baby sit) entitled players. Regardless of how good of a coach you are, your shelf life with any team is finite.
The one thing I know is that Lu has been making *those* saves of late to keep the team in the game at key times, those same saves that people always bitch about him not being able to make when he's in a funk or luck isn't fully on his side. It's almost like Lu is expected to make all those saves, not really getting the credit he deserves when he pulls out a big save
Sorry but there's no evidence of that, quite the contrary actually. The core spoke highly of AV after his dismissal and denied any "losing the room" rumours.
and Lu is so underappreciated its ridiculous.
and his cap hit....oh does it look good now
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[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 i find that at vietnamese place they cut ur hair like they cut grass
[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 do u go to vietnamese places for haircuts
Bruins tough guy Shawn Thornton has decided to appeal his 15-game suspension for punching and injuring unsuspecting Penguins defenceman Brooks Orpik.
Thornton's agent, Anton Thun, confirmed in an email that his client was appealing. The NHL Players' Association announced it had informed the league of that plan before the 48-hour deadline to do so passed.
As laid out in the collective bargaining agreement, the appeal first goes to commissioner Gary Bettman. If Bettman upholds the suspension, Thornton and the NHLPA can then elect to appeal to a neutral arbitrator because it is for six or more games.
Buffalo Sabres forward Patrick Kaleta is the only player to use this appeals process under the new CBA, and no player has gone to the neutral arbitrator. Bettman upheld Kaleta's 10-game suspension for an illegal hit on Columbus Blue Jackets defenceman Jack Johnson, issuing a 17-page decision.
Thornton got 15 games for slew-footing Orpik to the ice and landing gloved punches to his head during a game Dec. 7. The Pittsburgh defenceman was knocked unconscious and has not played since because of a concussion.
Vice-president of player safety Brendan Shanahan said it was not a spontaneous action by Thornton because he tried to confront Orpik earlier after Orpik injured Bruins winger Loui Eriksson with a hit.
Appearing on TSN Drive with Dave Naylor on TSN 1050 Thun said he could not talk about the case before it was presented in the appeal hearing but did mention he felt there was more than one reason for Thornton to appeal his suspension.
"We believe there are a variety of reasons to appeal it and part of it is just clarity… The clarity is not just Shawn but for the other players in the league."
Thun was also asked if he was aware of when the appeal hearing will take place with Bettman.
"To be the best of my knowledge the meeting will be later this week, Thursday and Friday have been thrown around but at this point in time it hasn't been confirmed."
Thornton had not been fined or suspended before. Several general managers and coaches around the NHL have spoken in support of Thornton's character in his career before this incident.
The Oshawa, Ont., native apologized for his actions after the game.
What have the suspensions been for punching a guy with your gloves on, after never having been suspended before? 15 games? If it's less, he might have a case
What have the suspensions been for punching a guy with your gloves on, after never having been suspended before? 15 games? If it's less, he might have a case
Bertuzzi also got 15 games for his sucker punch to Moore.
Sorry but there's no evidence of that, quite the contrary actually. The core spoke highly of AV after his dismissal and denied any "losing the room" rumours.
Who do you consider the core?
Sedin x2
Luongo
Burrows
Bieksa
Kesler
The only person who MIGHT throw the coach under the bus is Kesler. And given the story of how Burrows made it to the NHL, he's not going to diss his coaches. The rest are pretty classy individuals.
__________________ Do Not Put Aftershave on Your Balls. -604CEFIRO Looks like I'm gonna have some hot sex again tonight...OOPS i got the 6 pack. that wont last me the night, I better go back and get the 24 pack! -Turbo E kinda off topic but obama is a dilf - miss_crayon Honest to fucking Christ the easiest way to get a married woman in the mood is clean the house and do the laundry.....I've been with the same girl almost 17 years, ask me how I know. - quasi
__________________ Do Not Put Aftershave on Your Balls. -604CEFIRO Looks like I'm gonna have some hot sex again tonight...OOPS i got the 6 pack. that wont last me the night, I better go back and get the 24 pack! -Turbo E kinda off topic but obama is a dilf - miss_crayon Honest to fucking Christ the easiest way to get a married woman in the mood is clean the house and do the laundry.....I've been with the same girl almost 17 years, ask me how I know. - quasi
The only person who MIGHT throw the coach under the bus is Kesler. And given the story of how Burrows made it to the NHL, he's not going to diss his coaches. The rest are pretty classy individuals.
They don't need to publicly disparage AV for it to look like "AV lost the room". Yes there's no explicit evidence. There rarely is. But what you could see from after the Bruins game in 2012 was almost a look of apathy to the team's play. It looked as if AV couldn't motivate the team anymore, since the Canucks were guaranteed a playoff spot in the next 2 years. As a coach, you lose a room at that point when everything you're trying to do to motivate the team is not working. Same thing happened to Torts in NY. No one wanted to go through a wall for him, and it showed on the ice.
Take last year's 4 game sweep. Going into the series, it was a likely candidate for a 7-gamer. A coin-flip. But the Canucks came out FLAT in every single first period of those games and paid for it. The players left their goalies out to dry. AV did the only thing he could do (or that was left it looked like) to spark the team out of their indifference and arrogance. That was to put in a just-injured-and-supposedly-recovered Schneider. It almost worked, and minus a bullshit penalty in OT might've bought the Canucks a few more lives. But the end was near for AV and everyone could see it.
Edit: I also wanted to add that I'm very pro-AV. He's the most successful coach in Canucks history. Those people who say that Quinn is the greatest coach in Canucks history are on something. AV was able to show a way of coaching unseen here in Vancouver, all while able to keep a very level-headed approach with the media. His ability to transform the team from what it was when he joined in 06 to quite possibly one of the most exciting teams in recent NHL history in 2011 playing the way they did (with mostly the same core players) was superior to any coach in Canucks history. That said, he has his warts (i.e. sitting young players longer than they needed to, and calling out Hodgson in public) and his time here with the team ran out. They needed a new voice to inspire them. Sad really given they're grown-ass men. But that's the reality of pro sports.
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Originally Posted by PiuYi
whats the name of that girl that used to host canucks tv?
Kristen Reid. I see her from time to time on Global. I'm not sure where she is now though.
Sorry but there's no evidence of that, quite the contrary actually. The core spoke highly of AV after his dismissal and denied any "losing the room" rumours.
and sorry, thats not evidence of the room not being lost either
of course the core would pubically speak highly of AV post dismissal. they arnt going to step on a man while he is down.
public relations =/= what goes on in real life behind the scenes
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[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 i find that at vietnamese place they cut ur hair like they cut grass
[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 do u go to vietnamese places for haircuts
Leafs fans still celebrate their Stanley Cups where they had first dibs on any Ontario-born player coming into the league, only 5 other teams to compete against, and Stanley Cup runs that only required a team to win 7 games.
There must be a rule on something like that. Perhaps a stipulation that you must've been cognisant for the cup that you bring to arguments. That way young whipper-snappers who parade TML's last cup would have a void argument.
On an unrelated note- Jmac do you submit tweets to the midday show on the Team? Heard one on Marchand being voted league's ugliest 3 years in a row from a "jmac". Wondered if it was you lol
There must be a rule on something like that. Perhaps a stipulation that you must've been cognisant for the cup that you bring to arguments. That way young whipper-snappers who parade TML's last cup would have a void argument.
On an unrelated note- Jmac do you submit tweets to the midday show on the Team? Heard one on Marchand being voted league's ugliest 3 years in a row from a "jmac". Wondered if it was you lol
Not me, I stopped using Jmac about 6-7 years ago because it became too common and I like to keep a consistent username.
I can't say I disagree with him, though
But, yeah, unless you're 55+, bragging about the Leafs winning a cup is just idiotic. My dad grew up in Hamilton, so he's a Leafs fan, and even he says it wasn't something anyone bragged about. The Leafs fans back then cared a lot more about beating the Habs than they did about winning the cup.
good read on Tort's coaching strategy he used on Saturday
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How John Tortorella beat the Bruins by letting Zdeno Chara beat the Sedins
John Tortorella’s big moment during Saturday night’s contest between the Boston Bruins and the Vancouver Canucks came right after Bruins winger Reilly Smith made it 1-1 at 4:11 of the second period. Enraged by his team’s listless play coming out of the first intermission, Tortorella called a time out for the express purpose of screaming at his team. Watching the verbal assault, one had to hope that Tortorella was wearing his stretchy purple undershorts, because he seemed mere moments away from going full-Hulk.
The appeared to have its desired effect, with David Booth burning down the wing and beating Tuukka Rask to restore the Canucks’ one-goal lead shortly thereafter. The team wouldn’t look back.
But while this is the moment most people will point to, since it was a stark, expletive-riddled departure from what Vancouver fans have grown accustomed to in a head coach, Tortorella did some other, more subtle work that deserves a look as well. Most notably, the way he managed a battle he couldn’t win: Zdeno Chara versus the Sedins.
Chara had one job in this game: shut down the twins. It’s the same job he had in the 2011 Stanley Cup Final. He did it then; he did it again on Saturday.
Don’t let their two-point nights fool you: the Sedins were invisible for most of the night, and had they been all the Canucks really had, as they were in the 2011 Final, with Ryan Kesler skating around on a broken everything, the Canucks would have lost again.
The Sedins finished with one shot between them: Henrik Sedin’s powerplay goal in the third. And speaking of Henrik, with the elder Sedin on the ice, the Canucks generated just six even-strength shot attempts all night. Four were blocked. The other two were a missed shot by Daniel Sedin 44 seconds into the second period, and Yannick Weber’s goal early in the third.
Why were the Sedins so bad? Because Zdeno Chara is so good. For the first two periods, Claude Julien hard-matched his captain against Vancouver’s to great success.
The matching bears itself out in the shift charts, courtesy the aptly named ShiftChart.com. Take a look at the first period:
Apart from the opening puck drop and two tiny blips that we’re about to get into, Chara’s shifts line up pretty much perfectly with the Sedins. In a few instances — in the 8th and 16th minutes — he’s over the boards as soon after the Sedins as possible.
The two blips you see are shifts where Claude Julien expected the twins to come over the boards and they didn’t. Daniel and Henrik’s first shift is at about the one-minute mark. Then there’s a short shift by the Canucks’ third line, which ends when the puck goes into the netting at 2:10. Thinking Tortorella’s going to go right back to the Sedins early, which is what Alain Vigneault used to do, Julien sends Chara out for the draw. But with last change as the home coach, Tortorella counters with a rare fourth line shift.
That’s a complete waste of a fresh Chara, so when the Bruins win the defensive zone draw and get the puck out, the big Slovak returns immediately to the bench. His shift lasts all of 12 seconds, and he’s not back until the Sedins come back over the boards to take a neutral zone draw after a hand pass at 3:21.
The other blip there is at 15:35, when Chara takes a seven-second twirl around the ice. What happened? The Sedins simply didn’t show up for their scheduled shift.
After taking the ice to start a powerplay alongside Ryan Kesler (that’s what the diagonal lines in the grid signify), the second unit, led by Chris Higgins and Mike Santorelli, comes over the boards. The powerplay ends, and the third line gets a shift. Then the fourth line gets a shift. It stands to reason, then, that the next one should belong to the Sedins, especially since they’re likely to be fresher than the Kesler line, whose wingers finished the powerplay. So, on comes Chara.
But the Kesler line unexpectedly hits the ice instead. So off goes Chara, and he’s not back until he sees Daniel Sedin come over the boards a minute later. He’s so quick he even beats Henrik and Hansen.
Unfortunately, the Bruins get burned anyway, thanks to Hansen’s flukey goal from the neutral-zone, which deflects off Chara’s stick.
Safe to say that blight on Chara’s perfect first-period defence is hardly his fault, however, so Julien happily continues with a working strategy as the Bruins enter the second period looking to get the goal back:
Thing is, while Julien’s strategy remains the same, Tortorella has already made an adjustment — one that began during Zdeno Chara’s seven-second shift late in the first: less Sedin line, more Kesler line.
I think we can safely say that Chara is going to win a matchup versus the Sedins more often than not. The way they play, with those short passes and all that board work, Chara and his absurdly long, disruptive stick are basically their kryptonite. He can reach them both without moving. In other words, if you’re relying on the Sedins to beat Chara’s Bruins, you will lose. So Tortorella basically admits defeat in this matchup and decides to rely on the guys who aren’t being hard-matched against their unbeatable nemesis instead.
Kesler’s line leads the way; the centre’s even-strength icetime jumps from 3:47 in the first period to 7:11. For this night, at least, he’s the Canucks’ first-line centre. The Sedins, meanwhile, basically become the third line. Henrik finishes with just 15:58 of icetime, his third-lowest total of the season and his lowest in a winning effort.
Meanwhile, the Canucks’ second and third lines feast on the Chara-free ice. Both lines generate a goal with Chara on the bench, and suddenly, it’s 3-1.
By the 34th minute, Claude Julien realizes he’s been victimized by a clever coach willing to throw the game’s biggest matchup into the trash — a stark departure from his predecessor, who was almost always willing to let his players figure it out, arguably to a fault — and the Bruins’ coach has to adjust.
At 14:02 of the second, the twins are tapped for a shift. Kesler comes off, and Henrik comes over the boards on the fly. Chara hits the ice eight seconds later and, along with his teammates, they pin Henrik and Kesler’s wingers in the defensive end for 20 seconds. Finally, Daniel comes over the boards, just as Roberto Luongo swallows a puck and holds it for a faceoff.
The full Sedin line is now on the ice, and Henrik’s still got more than enough gas for a complete shift with his brother. But Tortorella pulls them from the ice. Daniel has been out for all of three seconds.
Chara stays out, however, because the Sedins are barely playing anymore and he’s going to waste. Tortorella appears to be happy now just teasing Julien with their usage — oh, here they are… actually nevermind. Chara’s not much help to the Bruins’ comeback efforts from the bench, so Julien abandons the strategy.
As you can see from the chart, the Sedins’ next shift is their first away from Chara all night, and their final shift of the period marks the first time he goes off the ice as they come on.
In the third period, things remain the same. Tortorella starts with the Kesler line, and Julien decides to counter with Chara. Just as Chara’s wrapping up a 40-second shift, Tortorella gives the Sedins their first shift of the period, and for the second time in the entire game, Chara leaves the ice as their shift is beginning.
Instead of Sedin kryptonite, the twins get Dennis Seidenberg and Kevan Miller, who may as well be the Sedin yellow sun. 29 seconds after Chara sat down, they score.
If that’s Chara instead of Miller battling the Sedins along the boards, I’m willing to bet that the puck never finds its way to Weber’s stick. Either Chara fights both twins off in the corner, or he pokes the puck harmlessly to Ryan Spooner just as the official hops over it, or he deflects or disrupts Henrik’s pass to Weber.
Instead, Henrik makes the pass, and it’s out of Miller’s reach, much like the game becomes for the Bruins after Weber’s one-timer makes it 4-1.
^
Wow - I just love that game within a game stuff...
__________________ Do Not Put Aftershave on Your Balls. -604CEFIRO Looks like I'm gonna have some hot sex again tonight...OOPS i got the 6 pack. that wont last me the night, I better go back and get the 24 pack! -Turbo E kinda off topic but obama is a dilf - miss_crayon Honest to fucking Christ the easiest way to get a married woman in the mood is clean the house and do the laundry.....I've been with the same girl almost 17 years, ask me how I know. - quasi
I didn't watch the game as I was at a work party. But the one stat that came out at me (even ahead of the score) was how little the Sedins played. Good to see that sort of adjustment being made on the fly. And good think the Sedins are such selfless players. Can't imagine Kovy being too happy about having to sit for that much of the game.
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