First man, do what you want.

Personally all I'm saying is that in my mind this:


Doesn't really matter to me because this:

Is a problem no matter if you own 100% of the condo out right. The only difference is you can afford to lose your own money and not the banks money. THAT is the problem.

If you own a condo and you want to sell it(because despite your insistence to the contrary, it happens-people break up, jobs move, jobs go away, people move, cities start to suck, parents get ill>>dino and I dealt with 4 things on that list) Now, does that mean I should sit in a ball and wait for the sky to fall? No. But it means I can't be locked into a place that I can't sell.

And why can't I sell? Because developers are selling new shit for cheaper than I bought my now several years old shit.

Pre-sale, right now would have a HARD time convincing me that buying in, and locking in and not being able to sell is a BETTER move than staying a little mobile.

"Eventually it will be worth more"

Sure. Eventually. Eventually everything will be worth more...its called inflation. A Model T used to cost $250 and people had to save up.

Admit the problem. You are horny for a condo. Your girlfriend walked into a pre-sale on got all weak in the knees. At that point, the numbers don't matter, you will give your left nut to satisfy that urge.

1) We should never think negatively, oh my marriage will fail... etc.. I know there is a chance, but if you thought of it then it will likely to come true. Because a pre-sale condo isn't a big price tag, unlike a house thats > X Million Dollars. A Pre Sale Condo can be paid off easily, under 6 Years, but might be tough on the first few years.

2) The new pre-sale condo I plan to buy isn't for investment, its a place for my family to settle down. I know it is good to stay in mobile, but it is much better to settle down when a baby could come in 2 years. Moving is not as easy, especially, me and my gf works 9 to 5 Monday to Friday. A lot of things you have to change as well, telephone #, address forward, etc... all those little things. As a new family we usually want to own our new set of furniture, or beds etc.. owning a place to live feels secure, while renting is not so much as landlord can kick us out any time. I just think maybe its better to settle down a place.

3) Considering, Richmond Newly Developed(2008 Above) 1 Bed room High Rise sells at least over $330,000, Pre-Sale you are looking at $270,000.
So if a 2008 Built, 1 Bed Room Costs $330,000, Once The Pre-Sale Condo Finished Building in 2016, It could potentially be at least $360,000. Even for an investment point, buy low sell high, might be very good move still. However, i just don't think this is the case anymore as the supply is increasing... surely a lot of people buy pre-sale to catch cheap deals(but as I stated before, Concord and PinnicleLiving already having trouble selling the other 50% of total units after 3 months of showroom, the demands are decreasing, as a lot of people already bought a lot of pre-sale) I think in the end, no one will be buying once it has been built, it just simply unaffordable.

Vancouver Area is such a hard place to live, making 90K before tax between the couple is considered really really poor already. I can't imagine how others are doing... :(

I heard to live an above normal life, between the husband and the wife must work at least $33/Hour each person and full time

Congratulations on your purchase.

Why are you buying a 1 bedroom condo and planning on having a kid?

You said this is not an investment and you are planning on staying long term...but you want to raise a child in 500 square feet?

I give it less than 2 years before you realize how BAD of a decision you made.

Also, condos built 5-10 years ago are bigger...that why the pricing is the way it is. 2003 condo=600+ sq ft. 2013 condo=450 sq ft.

Either you have not read a single word written in this thread or the OT Real Estate Bubble thread....or you are a troll.

To quote Gridlock....Congratulations on your purchase.

All in all, it seems to me like you already made up your mind on what you want to do. I don't think there is anything any of us can say or do anymore but as my last piece of advice:

As someone who has been in the business for years, my advice to you is hire a realtor. so he/she can educate you on the price you are actually paying and what come alongs with purchasing a property. Most first-time homebuyers just see the attractive prices and pretty showrooms but forget to ask the real questions.

I'll use one of your posts as an example:

A lot of people get this idea that pre-sale is cheaper than re-sale when really..it isn't always the case. Like above posted, older buildings seem like they are more expensive but that's because the size of the property IS larger and probably has all the extra little bonuses that a presale may not.

EX) Parking, storage, individual bike lockers etc

A lot of new developments now will not provide a parking/storage for you if the home is under a certain square footage/price because there is simply not enough space for everyone. On average a parking spot costs between $28K-$40K and a storage can range from $3K-$8000. It depends on the area but it's still a hefty price tag which may not seem "that important" at first glance but it makes a world of a difference when you are actually living in the building or need to sell it later on in the future.

There are so many minor details that go beyond the discussion on this thread that I strongly urge you to find a professional. It doesn't cost you a dime to have a Buyers agent, and trust me..there ARE good realtors out there amongst the bad ones.

Along with the very important point that Miss Crayon brings up (parking, storage, etc), don't forget about the "upgrades".

If you walk through a show home, half of what you are looking at are "upgrades". Stainless steel, solid surface countertops, tiled floors, laminate/engineered/hardwoods, shower heads, faucets, laundry machines, etc...

$500 for this $14,000 for that...it adds up QUICK! Your $270k condo is now $310k. The $270k condo is gonna be barely painted walls and low quality flooring and fixtures. It will look nothing like the show home you fell in love with.

Buying re-sale, all these upgrades are built in.

Good point!

i-VTEC, I got married in 2003 and moved into a 1200 sq ft 2-level duplex. In 2008 we had a kid. In 2012, we sold our place because we didn't have enough space. In 2013, I will be moving into a house with roughly 2200 sq ft - for the 3 of us! Ideally we would like to have another kid.

My co-worker and her husband have 3 young kids in a 2 bedroom condo and they need to move out BADLY.

Edit: Oops I got married and moved out in 2004 actually...

But you mentioned you didn't want a low rise because they are made of wood and if a fire happens, the fire will spread.

I'm confused here. Are you sure you're not trolling us?

With everything you've mentioned, I seriously think you and your GF need to sit down and rethink everything over.
Based on what I have read about you and your GF, first thing I'd do is go to a bank or a broker and get pre-approved so you know how much $$$ you can borrow and see the calculations on how much interest you will pay out over the 25 years to pay off the mortgage.
Then re-read everything that has been posted in the last few days and then decide how big of a place do you want/can you afford?
When you move out, you will find that you will have more bills to pay. You're gonna need to buy new furniture for the place. Bed, dinner table, couch, tv etc...
Once you buy and decide it is too small, selling it means you will take a hit as the seller pays the commission of the buying and selling realtors.
Buying pre-sale also means you pay more tax as opposed to buying an older unit.

um.. Please tell me how you plan on paying off a $300,000 mortgage in 6 years on a $80,000 (pretax) household income?

Your household take home pay is probably 60-70k. What about strata fees, insurance, car, phone and food bills?

I know you're set on buying the condo but... what is your plan? I'm genuinely curious because I'm in a similar situation and there's no way I can afford a pre-sale/condo yet.

I'm just renting and saving until buying makes sense or I make more money lol.

Easy, Its not like we don't have a place to live, we are still living at our respective parents house. standard of living are all paid for. Car (Either Insurance/Gas, I dont drive a lot anyways) Phone bill, taken care by my company, Food by parents.

Pretty much all the income will be saved up $45,000 after tax is $36,000 * 2 = $72,000, I will be very kind, knock 22K off (other yearly spending between the 2) which = $50K saving per year, $50K Saving Per Year * 6 Years = $300,000

My Plan is Save Enough Money so I don't need to get a mortgage or only mortgage less than $100K. So you should do the same. Dino pointed out that getting mortgage and paying back in 20 or 25 years you actually pay back to the bank almost double the amount you borrow from the bank

No point of buying a place to live as high as now, yet still pay mortgage for that high amount. Rather Save Up, Eventually Price Goes down, then you probably will end up not mortgage anything. I'm buying its because I have a partner, while you are pretty much on your own

You Save Up and Make More Money and Wait all at the same time. I already researched that there will be at least 25+ high rise condos going to be built coming years. Keep in mind thats "Just" in Richmond and not counting low rise (4 floors one, they will be even cheaper). Also Oakridge is purposing 10 Condos around it. So just wait and be patient.

What Dino and Grid said were correct, if you are going to lock in Mortgage for 25 years it is actually very scary. Anything can happen in those 25 years. You can lower that 25 years to 10 or 15 years, but you are going to pay double the monthly payment which essentially 50~70% of your monthly income and that can be scary too.

Its not so scary for my case because, both me and my girlfriend are working and we are totally in different field, I'm in Software, she is in Medical @ Hospital, if anything I will likely to go down, because its not a government union job but at least we will still be fine making mortgage payment. Shes actually making more than me atm haha :p

So, I'm sorry...what is the point of this thread now?

It seems we started off with you wondering what interest rate you would get and now you are saying you are going to buy a house in cash while making 80,000/year because mommy and daddy are funding your mid-20-something life? Nice.

Your type of future is the one I fear for Canada. Lack of responsible over-aged children powered by parents, who, when the parents die won't be able to find their way out of a paper bag and will tank our economy by bankrupting themselves and foreclosures. Awesome.

This has been a huge waste of time....maybe some others will get some good info from all who contributed in this thread because I don't think you heard a thing.

Props to being a good troll, though.

Dino/Grid/Others - thanks for the info! Much appreciated.


What are the general thoughts about buying a condo out side of vancouver proper (so burnaby, langley , surrey) (non-presale) and renting it for a year or two while living at home?

this explains a lot.

There is no difference. Market is the same everywhere, you just need to scale it.

I have viewed ALL pre-sales in New West....all are above $280k unless you are looking at "jr. suites". Re-sale condos are no different...they may be slightly cheaper, but the stratas are WAY higher....think $400-$500/month. ON TOP of your mortgage.

Maybe be a bit less than Vancouver, but you will need to rent for less. And, if I am being honest, the rental market SUCKS right now. Conservatively, you could take a NEW one bedroom condo in New West and rent it out for about $1100...maybe. Most likely $1000. Between strata, taxes, and mortgage, you will be revenue negative.

Here is what you need to understand. EVERYONE who has these thoughts need to understand this....this is going to blow your mind.

People in the 20s and 30s DO NOT and SHOULD NOT buy real estate as an investment.

Unless you have won the lottery...received a LARGE inheritance....been gifted $200k+, you should not be considering purchasing a condo for an investment.

What is with this generation living and acting like they are rolling in it and trying to replicated their parents' wealth at a young age in one of the most expensive cities in the world?

How do you expect to have any grasp of reality when you don't even pay a cable bill?

You can't have it all and you can't have it now! How do you think your parents are where they are now? Because when they were 25 they were working their ass off. They had their heads down, nose to the grind stone, saving every penny, living VERY conservatively, etc. Their houses/apts/shacks they bought or rented were pieces of shit. There was no option to "upgrade" to the stainless package, there was no concern in regards to view, and they certainly didn't give a shit about the wall colour.

Y'all need to stop. Y'all need to stop thinking money grows on trees. Y'all need to stop thinking that banking 100k a year is feasible. Y'all need to sit bank and realize that dropping $350k on 500 sq ft is ridiculous! And, what is even more ridiculous is that y'all are sitting here and thinking this is a good "investment".

The bank our parents made in real estate will not happen to you. Your $350k "investment" will not turn into $700k in 20 years. Our parents bought land. There is no land to buy now so why try and buy something just to say you own it. I get it...I've been there...bought the t-shirt...sent the post card and now I am sitting on an almost brand new townhouse that it worth $20k less than what I bought it for.

These stories on the news on how shit is selling and the market is awesome are fallacies. Realtors are fucking the numbers by re-listing the property at a lower amount when they aren't selling for higher. This fucks the stats.

Don;t take this as me shitting on realtors....i have realtor friends and have always had a great experience when dealing with them myself, but don't kid yourself. They need the market to pick up more than you because it is their life. But don't think for one second that our housing market is awesome right now, because it ain't.

I have never in my life encountered so many "I want to buy a condo" people than I have since I have joined RS....did I miss that on the sign-up page? Was there a box I didn't tick? The future of this Province terrifies me...

I'm wondering about potentially purchasing a property in the Okanagan....namely Kelowna by UBCO
A colleague of mine purchased a 2500 sqft home on a 9000 sqft lot with a legal basement suite for 450K. He is renting his basement suite for $1000/month, while living in the main floors with his family.

I will actually be moving up north for work in the next 3 years, but currently do have some money saved in the bank that I can put towards a down Payment.
Would this be a good investment? I'm guessing that if I rent the top and bottom suite I would be able to cover mortage and perhaps makes a few hundred per month on top.

I would be able to put approx 20-25% down on a 450K unit while mortgaging the rest.....the reason why i'm considering this is currently my savings isnt really getting me much interest and I think housing in the Okanagan might be a safer investment than investing in stocks or bonds as I am not an expert in those areas either. also cause I've been watching the show 'income property' on hgtv for the past few month, and seems like a good idea to be able to make money on a house and cover the mortgage.

Lastly, while I have no plans of living in Kelowna for the next little while, it would make a great retirement home down the road.

would this be a good investment, and how much a property manager charge to manage the property in terms of helping me select tenants and collect rent (I heard it was 1 months rent?)

btw, this thread has been extremely helpful.

IMO, Okanagan pricing is where Lower Mainland pricing should be so for that region, it is over priced. More affordable, but over priced.

Rental market in the OK is vastly different than it is here and without doing the numbers, I would say that is a better place to buy instead of rent (Lower Mainland you should rent NOT buy). $1000 for a shitty 1 bedroom apartment is standard. That being said, it doesn't mean you should. Buying land is always good, but you have less of a market there. I know and have known several people who move to Kelowna and Kamloops for work...but it is a specific type of work. UBCO is a good intensive, but is it worth a $500k investment? Maybe not.

Having basement refugees (or basement suite tenants) is always a good option....but it can be a huge pain in the ass:

-They don't pay rent
-They trash the place
-They don't pay rent AND trash the place
-The suite is vacant

So, you have a $450k mortgage for a vacant house AND you are paying a property management company to deal with it....oh, and its a 5 hour drive away. Not cool.

I'd much rather take my money to a financial advisor if you are worried about how much your money is making. Taking my money and becoming a first time home buyer for an investment 5 hours away would make me shit bricks.

Income Property is a dope show and Scott McGillivray makes this shit look like a 5-year old's party at McDonald's. However, this shit is filmed in Ontario so its TOTES different than BC...also, these people use these suites as mortgage helpers NOT investments.

My "investment" (which was NOT suppose to be an investment) keeps me up at night and its 20 mins away. I have heart palpitations every a tenant gives notice....having to pay A LOT for a property to sit empty ain't cool. And, even when I do get tenants....will they turn it into a meth lab?

Again, I need to say....when did our (20s-30s) generation start getting a chubby over investing in property?? I don't get it...

Working backwards:

1. If you are planning on your retirement now(different than planning FOR it) then you have a sad 30-40 years of waiting
2. One month rent and 6-8% per month for the life of the contract.
3. While Income Property is good tv, I wouldn't use it as a basis for quality investment advice. The numbers don't work here because the rents are the same, but our properties are more
4. You want to be 5 hours away from your property. Can I rent it? After watching Breaking Bad, I have this overwhelming urge to cook meth. You hear me NSA?

So yeah, I don't know if all the above came across as excited for the idea...but yeah, sounds great!

Backing up and even taking in a little bit of what Dino said.

There is a difference between now, and 2003. Everyone was coming off a dot com bubble and said, "fuck yeah, that was fun! I was a day trader making bank for nothing."

and then they said, let's do it again.

HGTV starts. Let's flip houses!

Pre-sales explode. Selling out a building in a day. Companies are rescinding offers to re-sell at higher prices(remember that happening?) You can sell an assignment for profit.

Hell...keep that shit and rent it out!

Then you own rental property, and you're now banking 10-20% equity gains in a year. Fucking nuts. It keeps going up.

That, THAT was when buying an investment property worked out.

Guess what kids. Party is over. It's done. We've met the max on the market. So buy in if you want or feel you must. Maybe I'm wrong. It's possible. It's happened MANY times before.

Just because we've come off an epic run(and trust me, I wish I was in on it. I really do) but just because there was an epic run, it doesn't mean there always will be.

We are in for a decade of ups and downs. Everyone grabbed their ass cheeks in '08, and it was ok. Everyone is kind of looking around seeing whats happening now. US was in the dumps a year ago, and now they are doing ok. Up and down, up and down. jobs will be gained, and they will be lost. For 10 years.

But don't worry, Christie said by that time we'll be debt free and high off natural gas, so we have that to look for :)

I think we have an obsession.

Posted within minutes. Damn you Breaking Bad!

I think you and your GF need to see if you are both capable of living on your own first. You sound like most young people these days who have never been financially stressed before because everything is taken care of by their parents.

It all sounds nice to be a homeowner but you are forgetting all the other details. Besides the mortgage payment, I would assume you plan to have life insurance on each over to cover any unexpected life events. RRSP and TSFA contributions as you don't want to dump all your assets on your pre-sale condo that most likely drop in value due to market over saturation. Strata fees will go up and they do tend to go up every single year even on brand new condos. BC Hydro/FortisBC bills, property tax, city utility bills, cell phone bills, house insurance, tv cable/internet bills, car insurance and costs for food.

This is the biggest financial decision of your life and I would suggest sitting down and really looking at the financial side of things before jumping in. There are many people on RS that have been through this same situation and have valuable experience you can learn from.

I bought my first brand new condo in Coquitlam in 2007 for $280k. One year later, I was stressed out of my mind as 4 new condo developments were completed in the same area and my condo dropped 50k instantly. I took a huge hit when the market crashed in 2008 and was lucky to get out with a loss before prices hit rock bottom. I was fortunate enough to flip to a older house in North Delta and was able to recoup my costs a few years later as SFD definitely maintained their value.

And yes, the market is not good right now. Anyone in the real estate field will always paint a good picture as their livelihood depends on good news. I would be looking at SFD's right now if you have saved up a big enough down payment.

Also trying to rent out your place is a lot more work than you think. Just ask Dino and Gridlock ;)

This This This This OH SOOOOO This!!!!

Look outside lower mainland/Okanagan if you are desperate for real estate now.

I own properties in northern BC, in a city that start with the word 'Prince' they are doing great due to the boom of LNG, Mining, Forestry, UNBC med/cancer centre, 3 pipelines proposed etc. Cost of living is cheap there and unemployment rate is low. For example you can get a new house in the range of 370-510K.

However you better like pick up trucks and horrible Asian restaurants, jesus christ $18 for 3 rolls that are worse than what you get at an AYCE here!