Front License Plate

[Grim]

i wish i have money... then ill just throw my shitty front plate to rust..
but im poor and rather spend the money on other stuff

[mikey2781]

The police quoted 3.02 instead of the 3.03, am I off the hook? He SAID it was blocking from cameras, but he WROTE improper display of front plate section 3.02.

And I've gotten 4 tickets in richmond within a year.
First one was "car too low" (my car is no where near low, just the front lip is SOMEWHAT low, I can shove two shoes under my lip.) Disputed and didn't have to pay.
Second one was muffler is widened? dafuq is this shit? I changed my entire catback exhaust system so how did I widen my muffler? Why are there muffler shops if you can't modify your muffler? Disputed and didn't have to pay.
Third one was taillight tint (i deserved this.) Paid.
Fourth was this license plate bs.

Originally Posted by Spidey

so Richmond cops are especially dickbags because of the one encounter, or was that just one example of many experiences?

btw,

Plates to be unobstructed

3.03 A number plate must be kept entirely unobstructed and free from dirt or foreign material, so that the numbers and letters on it may be plainly seen and read at all times and so that the numbers and letters may be accurately photographed using a speed monitoring device or traffic light safety device prescribed under section 83.1 of the Act.

If you live in Richmond, or drive in Richmond often, you would understand why RCMP there have little tolerance for bad drivers/driving infractions in the city... Not to mention a good percentage are driving while prohibited/no DL/ or milking off an international licence they should have transferred to e BC licence years ago.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by mikey2781

The police quoted 3.02 instead of the 3.03, am I off the hook? He SAID it was blocking from cameras, but he WROTE improper display of front plate section 3.02.

And I've gotten 4 tickets in richmond within a year.
First one was "car too low" (my car is no where near low, just the front lip is SOMEWHAT low, I can shove two shoes under my lip.) Disputed and didn't have to pay.
Second one was muffler is widened? dafuq is this shit? I changed my entire catback exhaust system so how did I widen my muffler? Why are there muffler shops if you can't modify your muffler? Disputed and didn't have to pay.
Third one was taillight tint (i deserved this.) Paid.
Fourth was this license plate bs.

3.02 is improper display of plate.
"A number plate shall at all times be securely fastened in a horizontal position to the vehicle for which it is issued."

3.03 is illegible plate

You said you disputed already.. But the PO can always amend the charge to 3.03, and it wouldn't get you off the hook. Usually whoever is processing the ticket after the PO submits it, would catch the error. If they do catch the error, the PO will have to reissue you a ticket, and your original ticket is void.

Just because there are muffler shops, doesn't make it legal. It isn't the auto shop's responsibility to ensure what you ask for is legal. It seems to me that you don't know many of the laws regarding car modification. The MVAR outlines what is and isn't legal with respect to the motor vehicle itself.

MUFFLER:

From what you stated, it sounds like the PO gave you a ticket under section 7.03(4) of the MVAR

Alteration prohibited

(4) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine equipped with a muffler the exhaust outlet of which has been opened or widened.

You can dispute saying that the aftermarket wasn't "widened" as it came direct from the factory like that. You could also say that the aftermarket muffler is "wider" than the OEM muffler made / came with the car. You said you won that dispute so I guess the judge sided for you.. unless you won because the officer didn't show up.

The fact is, you run the risk of being hassled by cops when you drive a vehicle that catches the eye or ear. A lot of cars are obnoxiously loud, and I wish that was enforced more often. Don't get me started on Harleys!

All the times you mentioned that you were stopped/ticketed, imo, are legitimate. The only issue is that you may or may not have been charged with the proper sections. I am sure there are regulations prohibiting a lot of aftermarket exhausts out there today, but I cannot think of it right now. I THOUGHT there was a limitation on the size of tips, but I could be mistaken

[BABU]

Richmond is the worst place to drive a modified car. RCMP < VPD

[xXSupa]

Since the law states $109, then it's $109. The officer can't fine you over that for the reason you said (Missing front license plate)

HOWEVER, depending on your attitude and previous warning notes, you may be fined for other stuff that he can pin on you.

I still believe that attitude is everything when a cop stops you. An officer usually has many options when he writes you a ticket. One example is if you turned right during a red light at an intersection that clearly states "No Right turns on Red", the officer can either:

1) Fine you for "Disobeying traffic sign", which is $121
2) Fine you for Running a red light, which is $167
3) Fine you for Disobeying traffic sign AND running a red light, which totals to $288

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by xXSupa

Since the law states $109, then it's $109. The officer can't fine you over that for the reason you said (Missing front license plate)

HOWEVER, depending on your attitude and previous warning notes, you may be fined for other stuff that he can pin on you.

I still believe that attitude is everything when a cop stops you. An officer usually has many options when he writes you a ticket. One example is if you turned right during a red light at an intersection that clearly states "No Right turns on Red", the officer can either:

1) Fine you for "Disobeying traffic sign", which is $121
2) Fine you for Running a red light, which is $167
3) Fine you for Disobeying traffic sign AND running a red light, which totals to $288

The thing is that the only one that would fly in court would be the first one for the following reason(s);

2) wouldn't be right, because you are permitted to turn right at a red light at intersections (unless a sign says not to, which is an offence in its own). If he didn't completely stop, and rolled through and conducted a right turn, then he could be charged for running a red light.

3) As per 2, he could get both ONLY if he didn't stop at the light before proceeding.

[xXSupa]

^Ah yes, that is true.

But to be honest, how often do we come to a complete stop behind the line at each and every single red light when turning right? We probably roll it or stop past the line, a majority of the times. So that could count then, for running a red.

Edit: I just realized that I repeated exactly what you said, in different wording. Oops. Derped.

[toddzilla]

I've been given at least 3 warnings over the years - as illegal as it is (and arbitrary, in my opinion) - I'll risk it, though I keep my front plate under my floor mat and tell them the original plate frame broke/got rusty, etc...and it's on order. Attitude IS a huge factor when a cop confronts you about it. Be a dick, chances are you'll get stung. I've been 'lucky' every time. Honestly, unless you're doing something else that warrants being pulled over, odds are low they'll even bother....at least in my experience. Bigger fish to fry.

Now, on another (somewhat related) note, a few years back I ran across a 911 that had a magnetic (?) 'printed' copy of his exact front plate that adhered to the bumper, as opposed to any holes. Anybody know about these?

[dared3vil0]

Would like an answer to the magnetic plate stuff aswell...

[tarobbt]

I got a no front plate ticket last year.

Paid it off and ICBC cancelled the ticket and sent me my money back 3 months later

[godwin]

Still illegal.. you have to have ICBC issued ones.

Originally Posted by toddzilla

I've been given at least 3 warnings over the years - as illegal as it is (and arbitrary, in my opinion) - I'll risk it, though I keep my front plate under my floor mat and tell them the original plate frame broke/got rusty, etc...and it's on order. Attitude IS a huge factor when a cop confronts you about it. Be a dick, chances are you'll get stung. I've been 'lucky' every time. Honestly, unless you're doing something else that warrants being pulled over, odds are low they'll even bother....at least in my experience. Bigger fish to fry.

Now, on another (somewhat related) note, a few years back I ran across a 911 that had a magnetic (?) 'printed' copy of his exact front plate that adhered to the bumper, as opposed to any holes. Anybody know about these?

[snails]

Originally Posted by toddzilla

I've been given at least 3 warnings over the years - as illegal as it is (and arbitrary, in my opinion) - I'll risk it, though I keep my front plate under my floor mat and tell them the original plate frame broke/got rusty, etc...and it's on order. Attitude IS a huge factor when a cop confronts you about it. Be a dick, chances are you'll get stung. I've been 'lucky' every time. Honestly, unless you're doing something else that warrants being pulled over, odds are low they'll even bother....at least in my experience. Bigger fish to fry.

Now, on another (somewhat related) note, a few years back I ran across a 911 that had a magnetic (?) 'printed' copy of his exact front plate that adhered to the bumper, as opposed to any holes. Anybody know about these?

I have to agree with you for this post, my plate has always been in the window or have the white part of the bottom bent up and ive never had an actual issue with it.

i double sided taped it to the inside of my window on my first car because i dodnt have a mounting bracket and i was stopped in a few roadblocks, cops always asked about it and i told them it was securely mounted.

currently the bottom of my plate is bent "all numbers/letters clearly visible"
and in the few road blocks ive been too they ask where the plate is because i guess they didnt notice instantly at night that its off to the bottom corner, once they find it they always let me on my way.

unless you are doing something wrong cops usually wont bother you.. and like anyone, if you give them a hard time they will give you a hard time..

as goes for the licence plate bracket, you can buy magnetic ones, suction ones and double side tape mounting brackets so you doing ruing the bumper on your car

[wonton1017]

Just went to court today for "IMPROPER DISPLAY OF LICENSE PLATE"
Officer said that "All license plates must be PROTRUDING from your bumper, installed by SCREWS and has to be completely horizontal"

Mine was in the bumper in one of the bumper ducts and was installed by 4 thick zip ties (Half was protruding, half was 2cm behind the outest part of my bumper). For those who don't get pulled over for not using SCREWS for our license plate, consider yourself lucky.

Judge reduced the fine from $196 to $95 and also reduced it for my 3 other violations as well, luckily officer dropped 2 of the violations or else I would be pleading guilty for 6 violations. ($750 ticket became $240)


P.S. I was driving 55km/h on Steveston highway behind a huge truck drinking my coffee when I got pulled over. Acted calm and nice, the officer tells me "At first I pulled you over because you changed the colour of your car and didn't notify ICBC right away, but now that I walked around your car, I see that you have numerous illegal modifications on your car."

So in my situation, attitude towards the police officer didn't do anything. I was wearing formal work clothing as well at the time.

[J.C]

i hear richmond cops dislike modded cars

[BoostedBB6]

Cops need to find something better to do that bother drivers with exhausts and no front plates. How about pulling over the 20+ excessive speeders I see every day..... Keep the roads safe and stop collecting revenue.
Posted via RS Mobile

[meme405]

For the guy above wondering about the license plate sticker the 911 had, I see this often. What it is is a digital scan of the license plate printed on vinyl. Then you can stick it on like a sticker.

As others said it is still illegal but gives the cops a lot less to worry about.

[godwin]

From their perspective, in Richmond:
1. There are a high concentration of bad drivers,
2. There are a high concentration of modded cars,
3. and oh memory of Constable Jimmy Ng

I won't say they dislike modded cars, the cars are just collateral damage. If cops don't need to patrol as much, especially after attending an accident scene, then you will won't see them as often.

I think most drivers who can afford their Bentleys and Lambos can afford a ticket or 2 or 3 a month.. I consider that a great benefit to the rest of Canadians and an extra income for general revenue. I don't mind RCMP give tickets out in Richmond like they give away free newspapers at skytrain stations.

Go ticket away.

Originally Posted by J.C

i hear richmond cops dislike modded cars

[godwin]

But I think if you get caught, it could be something worse, since you replicated an official sign / document. Not to mention the plate rules like protrusion etc is for their lasers to work. Your vinyl won't reflect as well as their specially painted plate.

The legal way of not having front plate? Move to Alberta or at least get your car plated there.

Originally Posted by meme405

For the guy above wondering about the license plate sticker the 911 had, I see this often. What it is is a digital scan of the license plate printed on vinyl. Then you can stick it on like a sticker.

As others said it is still illegal but gives the cops a lot less to worry about.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by wonton1017

Just went to court today for "IMPROPER DISPLAY OF LICENSE PLATE"
Officer said that "All license plates must be PROTRUDING from your bumper, installed by SCREWS and has to be completely horizontal"

Mine was in the bumper in one of the bumper ducts and was installed by 4 thick zip ties (Half was protruding, half was 2cm behind the outest part of my bumper). For those who don't get pulled over for not using SCREWS for our license plate, consider yourself lucky.

Judge reduced the fine from $196 to $95 and also reduced it for my 3 other violations as well, luckily officer dropped 2 of the violations or else I would be pleading guilty for 6 violations. ($750 ticket became $240)


P.S. I was driving 55km/h on Steveston highway behind a huge truck drinking my coffee when I got pulled over. Acted calm and nice, the officer tells me "At first I pulled you over because you changed the colour of your car and didn't notify ICBC right away, but now that I walked around your car, I see that you have numerous illegal modifications on your car."

So in my situation, attitude towards the police officer didn't do anything. I was wearing formal work clothing as well at the time.

Just because you were dressed we'll and were polite, it doesn't mean you will get off doing someone illegal. Especially if you had MULTIPLE violations.

Originally Posted by BoostedBB6

Cops need to find something better to do that bother drivers with exhausts and no front plates. How about pulling over the 20+ excessive speeders I see every day..... Keep the roads safe and stop collecting revenue.
Posted via RS Mobile

If you're driving an illegal vehicle, it's a risk you are taking. It's no ones fault but yours, if you get caught. When I drove a modified vehicle, I knew I risked getting a vt if I were pulled over. How do you know that cops aren't targeting excessive speeders? They can't catch them all, and they aren't going to catch all the drivers you see speeding. They catch what they see. If they happen to notice your illegal mods more often than you like, maybe it's time you drive a car that's within the Mva and mvar

Originally Posted by godwin

But I think if you get caught, it could be something worse, since you replicated an official sign / document. Not to mention the plate rules like protrusion etc is for their lasers to work. Your vinyl won't reflect as well as their specially painted plate.

The legal way of not having front plate? Move to Alberta or at least get your car plated there.

You are right. Plates must be issued by ICBc replicated plates would be forgery.

[chewbacca]

I'll take "What's a front license plate" for $109, Alex.

[wonton1017]

Originally Posted by Spidey

Just because you were dressed we'll and were polite, it doesn't mean you will get off doing someone illegal. Especially if you had MULTIPLE violations.

That is exactly what I said, I said attitude and appearance to the cop doesn't mean anything when they already decided to nail you.

[BoostedBB6]

Originally Posted by Spidey

Just because you were dressed we'll and were polite, it doesn't mean you will get off doing someone illegal. Especially if you had MULTIPLE violations.



If you're driving an illegal vehicle, it's a risk you are taking. It's no ones fault but yours, if you get caught. When I drove a modified vehicle, I knew I risked getting a vt if I were pulled over. How do you know that cops aren't targeting excessive speeders? They can't catch them all, and they aren't going to catch all the drivers you see speeding. They catch what they see. If they happen to notice your illegal mods more often than you like, maybe it's time you drive a car that's within the Mva and mvar



You are right. Plates must be issued by ICBc replicated plates would be forgery.

Never been caught with an illegal vehicle because I don't own one. Never had this problem before.
But to WASTE tax dollars enforcing a lay regarding the location of a license plate is a blatant waste of tax dollars.
Not only is it a waste of money, the ONLY reason why they require these plates to be in place is to collect ADDITIONAL revenue from road users. If there is no front plate then they may have issues tagging you at the red light camera, of on the toll bridges.

When I call the local non-emergency police number 1 or more times a week to inform them of the idiots doing burnouts and drifting though the parking lot across from my home at 3am and no one bothers to show up to stop the dangerous and damaging activities yet finds the time to pull over a car for no front plate.....priorities are off somewhere.

If one province over does not require a plate then why do we? The government could save money by not issuing them. One plate per car rather than two...literally cut the cost of issuing plates in half......

According to stats can there are 3,236,166 registered vehicles in the province of BC.
Currently ICBC charges $18 for replacement plates if lost/stolen/ect.
Now lets say that we pay a 100% premium on the plates and it costs the BC government $9 to make 1 set of plates.
Thats $4.50 per plate to be made.

$4.50 x 3,236,166 = $14,562,747

So with a savings of 14.5 million on plates the province of BC could focus on some other things.....like additional police members to pull over the yellow Porsche Boxter that blew past me on the highway doping well over 200km/h and nearly took out my car in his abrupt lane change putting the life of myself, my wife and 2 kids at risk.

So, IMO, issuing a $109 ticket for something that causes 0 safety issues and harms not a single person on the road is a blatant attempt on gathering additional income for the province. I have given a better solution that both saves the tax payer money and gives the government more money to spend on vacations and lawyers to help them with there drunk driving cases.

If you wish to bend over and take a fine for something like this I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

PS. Yes, being stats can the numbers may be off but even if the plates cost $1 to make and only half the registers vehicles have plates that's still a savings of $1,618,083. To generate that revenue from plate tickets at $109 each that's 14844 tickets that need to be issued.....ill take a guess but they have not issued that many for plates.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by BoostedBB6

Never been caught with an illegal vehicle because I don't own one. Never had this problem before.
But to WASTE tax dollars enforcing a lay regarding the location of a license plate is a blatant waste of tax dollars.
Not only is it a waste of money, the ONLY reason why they require these plates to be in place is to collect ADDITIONAL revenue from road users. If there is no front plate then they may have issues tagging you at the red light camera, of on the toll bridges.

When I call the local non-emergency police number 1 or more times a week to inform them of the idiots doing burnouts and drifting though the parking lot across from my home at 3am and no one bothers to show up to stop the dangerous and damaging activities yet finds the time to pull over a car for no front plate.....priorities are off somewhere.

If one province over does not require a plate then why do we? The government could save money by not issuing them. One plate per car rather than two...literally cut the cost of issuing plates in half......

According to stats can there are 3,236,166 registered vehicles in the province of BC.
Currently ICBC charges $18 for replacement plates if lost/stolen/ect.
Now lets say that we pay a 100% premium on the plates and it costs the BC government $9 to make 1 set of plates.
Thats $4.50 per plate to be made.

$4.50 x 3,236,166 = $14,562,747

So with a savings of 14.5 million on plates the province of BC could focus on some other things.....like additional police members to pull over the yellow Porsche Boxter that blew past me on the highway doping well over 200km/h and nearly took out my car in his abrupt lane change putting the life of myself, my wife and 2 kids at risk.

So, IMO, issuing a $109 ticket for something that causes 0 safety issues and harms not a single person on the road is a blatant attempt on gathering additional income for the province. I have given a better solution that both saves the tax payer money and gives the government more money to spend on vacations and lawyers to help them with there drunk driving cases.

If you wish to bend over and take a fine for something like this I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

PS. Yes, being stats can the numbers may be off but even if the plates cost $1 to make and only half the registers vehicles have plates that's still a savings of $1,618,083. To generate that revenue from plate tickets at $109 each that's 14844 tickets that need to be issued.....ill take a guess but they have not issued that many for plates.

It actually isn't a waste of tax dollars. A no plate or improper display of plate fine rakes in 109 and 230 bucks respectively. That's no chump change, and the offender won't be able to defend that in court. You either had a plate or you didn't. At the end of the day, every licences driver should know you are required to have two plates on your vehicle. No excuses if you get caught.

So just because some other provinces don't Require or implement a law, be should follow suit right? A front plate is more than just for red light cameras my misinformed friend. Front plates are used and helpful in identifying vehicles involved in criminal activity and offences that just occurred. You see the front of a car getting away from a scene or a shooting, but lived in Alberta, good luck identifying that rare black Honda civic.

3am in the morning I am sure the police have better things to do than go code 3 to a traffic complaint in a private parking lot. You don't know if they show up or not or if the cars are gone by the time they get there after dealing with higher priority calls. At the end of the day, if you going to make a report regarding bad drivers and want then ticketed, be prepared to attended traffic court and provide evidence as the officer cannot defend a ticket without evidence.

[BoostedBB6]

Originally Posted by Spidey

It actually isn't a waste of tax dollars. A no plate or improper display of plate fine rakes in 109 and 230 bucks respectively. That's no chump change, and the offender won't be able to defend that in court. You either had a plate or you didn't. At the end of the day, every licences driver should know you are required to have two plates on your vehicle. No excuses if you get caught.

So just because some other provinces don't Require or implement a law, be should follow suit right? A front plate is more than just for red light cameras my misinformed friend. Front plates are used and helpful in identifying vehicles involved in criminal activity and offences that just occurred. You see the front of a car getting away from a scene or a shooting, but lived in Alberta, good luck identifying that rare black Honda civic.

3am in the morning I am sure the police have better things to do than go code 3 to a traffic complaint in a private parking lot. You don't know if they show up or not or if the cars are gone by the time they get there after dealing with higher priority calls. At the end of the day, if you going to make a report regarding bad drivers and want then ticketed, be prepared to attended traffic court and provide evidence as the officer cannot defend a ticket without evidence.

It seems as though you are not grasping what is being said so I will take one last try at this.

No one is debating that no front plate is illegal in BC. That is not what anyone is saying. What is being said is the whole concept of a front plate is pointless. It does NOTHING to make the roads a safer place, it only costs the government more money which in turn costs the tax payer more money and also gives them a way to collect additional revenue from the tax payer who does not run a front plate.

And yes, because another province adopted a good idea we SHOULD follow suite. Save a lot of money, appease many people....seems like a good idea to me and if that is the case then yes, BC should adopt these practices.

I call the cops numerous times about these kids. No one EVER shows up. It happens 1 or more times a week. My point in saying this is these drives pose a SAFETY risk and are causing DAMAGE to property. This is what the police should be doing, stopping people from doing things that are unsafe and damaging. No front plate poses no safety risk and no damage to anyone.
As for going to court regarding this, no problem. I have quite the collection of videos of these clowns for this exact reason.
You seem to assume a lot with no backing for anything you keep saying. I do know if the police show up....I live right across the street from this....I have eyes that can see. Sure, maybe one time they have more important things to do but these people pose a safety risk to everyone in the vicinity, this IS a high priority call. Unless someone is being shot/raped/harmed then they need to DO THERE JOB and deal with these people. Its not my job to stop this from happening, nor is is my job to go to court.

You make many invalid points, with no backing other than person opinion....if you wish to retort and continue this please do so with something factual. You claim that the front plate helps with crime. Can you provide any evidence to back your claims or is this assumption on your part? When is the last time a bad driver was pulled over and a witness was needed to back the cops ticket that was issued?

[meme405]

Boosted your figures go on the assumption that we still pay the full $18 when we buy the plates. otherwise they would not receive any extra money.

I would absolutely pay the full $18 still hell I would pay $40, but some people probably might not see it that way.