People from Toronto -> Vancouver

[Razor Ramon HG]

Just curious,

But for those that moved to Vancouver for whatever reasons such as work, family, and study, how do you find Vancouver compared to Toronto?

[noclue]

I know quite a few people who relocated to Vancouver.

All love the scenery and mild winters. However aside from being relocated by your company, the others had a hard time looking for an equivalent, well paying job that they had in Toronto.

[BurnoutBinLaden]

Anecdotal, but I've heard of CS grads from UToronto who took pay cuts to come to Vancouver because of the lifestyle and weather.

[4444]

It's a move u make for lifestyle, not career.

A better move for lifestyle and career would be San Fran, if applicable - beautiful, huge economy, a lot of cool shit going on there, Vancouver is really far too small comparatively

[Gridlock]

Housing is cheaper anywhere else in Canada, either rent, or buy so that's just a given you need to assume.

Larger employers that drive an economy are far more easily found in TO and surrounding areas.

I moved from Halifax in 99...I didn't find it all that different to be honest. Obvious that Vancouver and BC is a "have" province, but it never blew me away the great BC opportunity that everyone used to talk about back east.

I think you can make a great life in Toronto, but it depends on what you are into.

[BurnoutBinLaden]

Originally Posted by 4444

A better move for lifestyle and career would be San Fran, if applicable - beautiful, huge economy, a lot of cool shit going on there, Vancouver is really far too small comparatively

Yep...in Silicon Valley starting salaries are in the six figures. You'd be lucky to clear $55k for a similar job in Vancouver. Stay frugal (living alone is expensive in the Bay even in the suburbs, so get roommates) and you can make an absolute killing.

[4444]

Originally Posted by BurnoutBinLaden

Yep...in Silicon Valley starting salaries are in the six figures. You'd be lucky to clear $55k for a similar job in Vancouver. Stay frugal (living alone is expensive in the Bay even in the suburbs, so get roommates) and you can make an absolute killing.

It's not just that, it's also the number of jobs. Here there are some good, low paying jobs, there there's loads of good paying jobs... And not just IT but all the periphery industris that go with it (accounting, finance, legal, services, construction, etc)

[willystyle]

Originally Posted by BurnoutBinLaden

Yep...in Silicon Valley starting salaries are in the six figures. You'd be lucky to clear $55k for a similar job in Vancouver. Stay frugal (living alone is expensive in the Bay even in the suburbs, so get roommates) and you can make an absolute killing.

It's very difficult to get hired by an American IT firm to work in American soil for new Canadian grads.

You guys are making it sound like it's a very easy transition to get a US work permit to work in the states. They are making it increasingly more difficult particular for those whom don't possess at least a managerial role in their respective field.

[noclue]

Silicon Valley starting salaries are six figures for exceptional software programmers/computer whiz's from top schools. They barely look at any Canadian students unless you are a genius.

Silicon Valley is also 1.5 hours away from San Fran and cost of living is way cheaper in San Jose...

Let's go back to focusing on Toronto -> Vancouver

[willystyle]

Originally Posted by noclue

Silicon Valley starting salaries are six figures for exceptional software programmers/computer whiz's from top schools. They barely look at any Canadian students unless you are a genius.

Silicon Valley is also 1.5 hours away from San Fran and cost of living is way cheaper in San Jose...

Let's go back to focusing on Toronto -> Vancouver

Exactly, not to mention, Silicon Valley is located where Stanford is, cost of living there is higher and most of the residential real estate in that area are in the millions. Good luck finding affordability there. So you're gonna end up living in San Jose, NOT San Francisco.

[BurnoutBinLaden]

Canadians can get a Trade NAFTA visa for some jobs, one of which is "Software engineer". If your company is good, they may help you get your green card (PR card).

Facebook is opening an office in Vancouver to recruit Canadians. They work a year here to help them qualify for an H1-B visa.

If SF is too pricey for your blood, plenty of devs here in Vancouver get jobs in Seattle. Good pay, good benefits (health insurance, stock options, reimbursed tuition), and the cost of living isn't fucking insane.

And there are others who decide to come or stay in Vancouver. They make a good living, although more often than not it's people from elsewhere in the US, Canada or Europe who already have established careers and are financially secure.

I'm young but I've learnt there is opportunity everywhere, even in Vancouver-you just have to seek it.

[noclue]

Originally Posted by BurnoutBinLaden

Canadians can get a Trade NAFTA visa for some jobs, one of which is "Software engineer". If your company is good, they may help you get your green card (PR card).

Facebook is opening an office in Vancouver to recruit Canadians. They work a year here to help them qualify for an H1-B visa.

If SF is too pricey for your blood, plenty of devs here in Vancouver get jobs in Seattle. Good pay, good benefits (health insurance, stock options, reimbursed tuition), and the cost of living isn't fucking insane.

And there are others who decide to come or stay in Vancouver. They make a good living, although more often than not it's people from elsewhere in the US, Canada or Europe who already have established careers and are financially secure.

I'm young but I've learnt there is opportunity everywhere, even in Vancouver-you just have to seek it.

The reason facebook/microsoft/twitter opened an office here is not to hire Canadians. It's to hire top international students who attended US universities but could not get the H1-B Visa.

The NAFTA visa TN-1, although much easier to obtain than a H1-B is nothing but a work visa. You can't get Permanent residency, you must leave the US if you leave your job. Plus unless you're really talented, US companies don't want to spend extra and deal with all the hassles of hiring a foreigner.

[willystyle]

Originally Posted by BurnoutBinLaden

Canadians can get a Trade NAFTA visa for some jobs, one of which is "Software engineer". If your company is good, they may help you get your green card (PR card).

Facebook is opening an office in Vancouver to recruit Canadians. They work a year here to help them qualify for an H1-B visa.

If SF is too pricey for your blood, plenty of devs here in Vancouver get jobs in Seattle. Good pay, good benefits (health insurance, stock options, reimbursed tuition), and the cost of living isn't fucking insane.

And there are others who decide to come or stay in Vancouver. They make a good living, although more often than not it's people from elsewhere in the US, Canada or Europe who already have established careers and are financially secure.

I'm young but I've learnt there is opportunity everywhere, even in Vancouver-you just have to seek it.

I know one of the Facebook HR recruiters responsible for hiring for Facebook Vancouver and I was told that their main purpose here is not to hire your typical Canadian grads.

Originally Posted by noclue

The reason facebook/microsoft/twitter opened an office here is not to hire Canadians. It's to hire top international students who attended US universities but could not get the H1-B Visa.

The NAFTA visa TN-1, although much easier to obtain than a H1-B is nothing but a work visa. You can't get Permanent residency, you must leave the US if you leave your job. Plus unless you're really talented, US companies don't want to spend extra and deal with all the hassles of hiring a foreigner.

Exactly, unless you have a very specific set of skills or a very seasoned veteran in your field. No major US corporations will sponsor you. It's a waste of resources for them. You would be naive to believe that they will.

I know of 2 first hand contacts that got sponsored only because one was a Senior Project Manager for a major multi-national company, and the other was a Manager (Commercial Branch) for CIBC, both with 10+ years of experience with management experience. The latter is now a VP of Commercial Banking and is STILL in the process of obtaining her green card after 12 years.

[PeanutButter]

I was born in Vancouver, moved to Toronto, and I have been living here for the past eight years. I come back to Vancouver probably two to three times per year.

1) Vancouver feels really small compared to Toronto. Everything about Vancouver just feels really small. Everything also seems more relaxed in Vancouver, it's a weird vibe that only big city folk can understand.

2) Besides the mountains, Vancouver doesn't really have much on Toronto in my opinion. There are a number of beaches, parks, hiking trails, etc all IN Toronto. Downtown Toronto has a number of beaches and Toronto Island has three beaches on it (obvs. the beaches aren't as big, but they are still fun to be on). Downtown Toronto destroys downtown Vancouver in every way imaginable. You can't really compare a big city like TO to Vancouver.

3) I'm not sure how this comment is going to fare with you guys, but one of the first things I noticed about Vancouver upon my returns were the number of Asians in the city. I never noticed this when I was growing up in Van, but ever since i've moved to Toronto, the number of Asians in Vancouver is exponentially more. The weirdest part is that I was getting annoyed at the fact that there were so many Asians in Vancouver, and i'm Chinese myself (I'm not really sure why I was getting these feelings?). I guess Toronto is so diverse, that when I come back to Van my mind is expecting the same.

4) Being young and single, Toronto is where it's at. The downtown atmosphere is amazing, there isn't anything like it in Vancouver. There aren't as many good looking Asian girls in Toronto compared to Vancouver, but there are so many girls of different ethnic groups that it doesn't even matter.
- If you are a young, single male living in Vancouver and you don't really know what you want to do, come move out to Toronto for a year and work here and just experience life over here. I honestly think you'll have a great time.

The biggest complaint for me coming back to Vancouver is how small and slow the environment is. Not to mention the lack luster of downtown Vancovuer. Though, walking off the plane at YVR and taking that first breath off the plane is an incredible feeling, your lungs get this sort of high that's hard to describe. Also, the mountains actually make me feel a little giddy every time I see them. If I didn't have my close family and friends in Vancouver, it would be hard for me to come back and visit so often.

[4444]

Originally Posted by noclue

The reason facebook/microsoft/twitter opened an office here is not to hire Canadians. It's to hire top international students who attended US universities but could not get the H1-B Visa.

The NAFTA visa TN-1, although much easier to obtain than a H1-B is nothing but a work visa. You can't get Permanent residency, you must leave the US if you leave your job. Plus unless you're really talented, US companies don't want to spend extra and deal with all the hassles of hiring a foreigner.

Be careful what u say, the parts re tn-1 aren't really true. This comes from someone with offers to come from Canada to US on tn-1, no hassle for hiring co's really, the issue is being a Canadian (education and experience vs. US, industry dependent) and not already being local, all else is immaterial to the decision

[Gululu]

all my friends refer to vancouver as the countryside because of how slow and boring it is.

[ImportPsycho]

moved to Van after highschool, would never ever go back.
Winter is just as miserable there
cold freezing snow more snow, nothing to do.
at least Vancouver summer > Toronto summer

only thing I miss, Canada's wonderland
Playland is embarrassing

[tool001]

moved a while back. mainly because of lifestyle. at the time i liked laid back attitude and how everything moved at a slower pace than in TO.

i got my company to transfer me to BC, so actually i got a bump in salary due to higher cost of living.

i was in Toronto for work, last dec. reminded me the few things i miss about toronto, how cheap it is to go out, and wide abundance of choices 1) food (rather than predominately asian food we have here in vanc.) Greek town/little italy, jamaican town.. 2) clubs/music venues (alternative/rock clubs)..... i could go on... also how diverse the city is compared to Vancouver..

but it in the end of the day, i would still pick Vancouver where i'd wanna live...

plus weed is better here..

[KuSouL]

moved to Toronto from Vancouver about three years ago ... if you like city life, Toronto trumps Vancouver in every single way ... and I dunno about the official stats but cost of living feels ever so slightly lower here

one difference that is in Vancouver's favour is the food, I really think DT Van food is much better than that of TO's ... unless you're really willing to pay for high end dining

in the last year or two lots of popular moderately priced cuisines from Vancouver and New York have been moving in and raised the standard slightly

and all my friend's that were already living in Toronto warned me about the winter's when I was asking for what I should take note of but ... in the last three years I haven't really had a huge problem with the winter's (*note* snow is shovelled up pretty damn quick here so maybe facing just the cold on its on wasn't too bad for me)

[Traum]

As everyone has already pointed out, for the most part, it's a case of lifestyle vs career opportunities between Vancouver and Toronto. To a very large extent, I'd say it is really more of a West Coast vs East Coast mental instead of just Vancouver vs Toronto. Some people (such as myself) value the more relaxed pace and better work-life balance here on the West Coast. Others (such as PeanutButter) enjoy the more vibrant life that only a big East Coast city can offer. Still others crave for the career opportunities that are far more abundant in the East Coast. So whatever you value more, you would probably be happier if you were living in the corresponding city to seek the life that you want.

I grew up here in Vancouver, went over to TO and the East Coast for a few years and had a great experience. But in the end, even though I enjoyed it while I was there, I find that the East Coast lifestyle really isn't for me, and that I am really West Coast boy at heart. So I came back and I couldn't be happier.

And if I may say so, LGs in Vancouver are so much prettier than those in TO.

[bcrdukes]

Having spent some time in Toronto myself, I'll echo exactly what PeanutButter said.

If you are young and ambitious, go to Toronto. Staying here will do you no good. I'll refrain from touching on the subject of Asians in case it is misunderstood as "racist" given my history here on the forums but PeanutButter pretty much nailed it.

Most of my colleagues who grew up in Toronto who come out to Vancouver love it here and would love to bring their family over. But of course, they are established professionals who already have families. If they were younger, I don't think they'd move out here.

Oh, and I prefer the winters and summers here. I'll have to give it to the folks in Toronto though. They sure know how to drive and deal with the snow.

[Verdasco]

Originally Posted by PeanutButter

I was born in Vancouver, moved to Toronto, and I have been living here for the past eight years. I come back to Vancouver probably two to three times per year.

1) Vancouver feels really small compared to Toronto. Everything about Vancouver just feels really small. Everything also seems more relaxed in Vancouver, it's a weird vibe that only big city folk can understand.

2) Besides the mountains, Vancouver doesn't really have much on Toronto in my opinion. There are a number of beaches, parks, hiking trails, etc all IN Toronto. Downtown Toronto has a number of beaches and Toronto Island has three beaches on it (obvs. the beaches aren't as big, but they are still fun to be on). Downtown Toronto destroys downtown Vancouver in every way imaginable. You can't really compare a big city like TO to Vancouver.

3) I'm not sure how this comment is going to fare with you guys, but one of the first things I noticed about Vancouver upon my returns were the number of Asians in the city. I never noticed this when I was growing up in Van, but ever since i've moved to Toronto, the number of Asians in Vancouver is exponentially more. The weirdest part is that I was getting annoyed at the fact that there were so many Asians in Vancouver, and i'm Chinese myself (I'm not really sure why I was getting these feelings?). I guess Toronto is so diverse, that when I come back to Van my mind is expecting the same.

4) Being young and single, Toronto is where it's at. The downtown atmosphere is amazing, there isn't anything like it in Vancouver. There aren't as many good looking Asian girls in Toronto compared to Vancouver, but there are so many girls of different ethnic groups that it doesn't even matter.
- If you are a young, single male living in Vancouver and you don't really know what you want to do, come move out to Toronto for a year and work here and just experience life over here. I honestly think you'll have a great time.

The biggest complaint for me coming back to Vancouver is how small and slow the environment is. Not to mention the lack luster of downtown Vancovuer. Though, walking off the plane at YVR and taking that first breath off the plane is an incredible feeling, your lungs get this sort of high that's hard to describe. Also, the mountains actually make me feel a little giddy every time I see them. If I didn't have my close family and friends in Vancouver, it would be hard for me to come back and visit so often.

why are all the Asian girls in vancouver more hot / cute compared to TO??

Also, i felt the fresh air when getting off a plane from Japan to YVR, it felt moist and wet it was so cold/cool , i wet myself with shivers . The high feeling I got was perfect relaxation, the mood of "everything is going to be alright"

watched KEYS TO THE VIP and they from toronto, outdoor clubs look huge there and chicks look easy to get, vancouver girls are probably more sheltered like arizona

edit: i know a family who came to vancouver last year, they said that they would retire in vancouver because of the trees they drive by in Richmond 24/7.... they told me they never seen so much trees mixed in to a city before!!

[godwin]

While the rest of BC has a lot more space, the diversity of commercial / career opportunities are within the lower mainland.

Out East, if you like to tinker, you will be able to find real heavy industrial shops ie outfit with multiphase power, loading dock (they came in really useful if you like to tinker with engines!) for about the price of a small shop in Surrey. Don't forget since there are a lot of heavy industries out there, you can get proper equipment like 50ton press etc much much easier than you would find here, even things like SnapOn etc are a bit cheaper and honestly less PITA. The advantage of the "golden horse shoe" is the US border is so far away, places like Hamilton doesn't seem that far to most TO people, because a lot of them drive past to go to the States.

People move to BC once they are older and had built up equity OR in service / paper pushing industries / divisions (eg even in Federal Gov, if you are in BC you are considered dead end, you won't advance to any level / speed like in Ottawa).

The reality is the world (not just Vancouver or Richmond) is your oyster, go out an explore!!

[Traum]

One really important aspect not to be overlooked is the weather/pollution. Everybody should already at least have some idea of the hotter summers and colder, harsher winters in Toronto, and how Vancouver's weather is a lot milder. So I am not going to mention how hot and muggy it gets over in TO. The real issue that often gets overlooked is the air quality and level of pollution in Toronto. With all the factories both along southern Ontario and on the US side of the border, air pollution is a real and serious issue to take into consideration. Especially for those who have respiratory conditions, things can get really bad over in TO. There are smog days in TO where people with respiratory issues are just not going to feel well at all. And if the smog days happen to coincide with the heat wave, air quality goes down even further, and you get hit with a triple whammy (smog day + heat wave + worsen air quality b/c of the heat) and it does not feel good.

[unit]

people are more ambitious in toronto thats for sure.

vancouver suits people who want a mix of big and small city, and have an extremely active lifestyle (climbing, hiking, trails, snow sports, water sports, etc..)