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OK.. so my tenant has stated that they have caught 2 mice lately and have seen droppings in and around the kitchen.
(house was built in 2010 and suite is a 1bedroom basement suite)
So I arranged to have a visit and he let me in after weeks and weeks of making up excuses NOT to let me in.
What I saw was an absolute cluttered mess similar to hoarders. I mean, the place is maybe 530 sq ft but the main living space contained a couch, a computer with desk, a book case, a coffee table...now picture those surrounded by boxes and boxes and garbage bags full of 'I don't know what'. They have been there for over a year and basically it resembles a place where you did not unpack when you arrived. Counter space on the kitchen was filled to the max with miscellaneous. tenant described it as clutter, I saw it as one big mess. they are not hoarders but they are just messy messy people and we have never had a 'mouse' problem until they moved in which may or may not mean they brought some in with some of their cluttered crap. The way they have stuff all over the place is what mice dream of.
what rights do I have to order them to clean up? as well as do inspections? I understand that I have to give them 24hr notice before I enter the suite but is that only for emergencies and repairs? I want to begin monthly inspections (which will be in my next tenancy clause).
I would inform them that you want them to move out.
Mice in a home that new are rare unless you live near farm land or something.
Sounds to me like there lifestyle attracts the rodents due to the "clutter" that they have.
You may also want to consider, long term effects of someone like that living in your home. You may find that there are many stains and other issues with the suite when they move out that you will have to deal with.
I have never come across anything that says a tenant must keep the suite clean or neat tho.
as a landlord, you have the rights to issue monthly inspections to your properties, regardless of whether or not it is an emergency or repair issue. however, the 24hr notice still applies.
When I took over one of our buildings, it had a huge mouse problem. One ran across the living room when Dino was showing a suite. The previous manager was handling it with putting out more and more sticky traps and not really dealing with it.
In the building itself, I have an actual dirty hoarder(sports statistics of all things) but mostly just dirt, and I had up on the top floor a couple of roommates that had just dirty dishes out and food around. Everyone else was actually just normal every day tenants.
So I started doing inspections with my Orkin guy. We put 2 or 3 bait stations per suite, and checked them every 2 weeks. So annoying! But, had to keep the bait up. I would alternate between the whole building once a month, and ones with activity every 2 weeks.
Mice themselves. They become residential. Meaning, they don't usually come in and out. Once they are in the home, they stay in the home. They get everything they need. Key factors are cleaning crumbs. Any food needs to be put in an inaccessible place, or in containers. Under the stove needs to be clean. It's one of those areas that just doesn't get cleaned by most people. You need to out catch their breeding. Meaning, kill before they birth out more.
On Tenants:
Huge pet peeve here. People call up with a problem. They expect me to deal with it. I deal with it by making a phone call...and I'm done. I'm not coming into your place and cleaning for you, and moving furniture and doing your laundry. People look at me like they shouldn't be inconvenienced in any way and its my problem to solve.
With the roommates. Every 2 weeks I'm in there and all the time saying, "gotta clean your shit." Finally they get the message.
So, in writing, you need to be clear and professional with instructions. You hand it to them in person. Crumbs cleaned. Dished cleaned. Vacuumed. Nothing spilled in cupboards. All said without judgment.
And you tell them that we're checking bait stations every 2 weeks. And you follow up with a letter that says, this isn't clean enough and there are crumbs in by the stove and so on. We'll be back in 2 weeks.
Oh! You don't like every 2 weeks? Not your choice. We have a problem and I am legally mandated to solve it. I can't solve it on a once a month schedule.
And what we're doing is documenting it. Intentionally book an inspection when they can't be there(with proper notice) and take pictures. Hell, take pictures even if they are there.
"I need to send these off to my pest control guy"
We're documenting and we're building a system where you have told them everything they need to do to solve the issue and they are failing in the following areas: 1, 2, 3.
Then when you feel that you have given them a fair and reasonable amount of time to solve the issue, you sit down for a heart to heart.
"Look, we still have this issue, and its putting my house at risk. Sooo...wanna move on your own, or be evicted?"
"I have three separate letters documenting where we have laid out a plan for handling the infestation and where that plan has not been adhered to. It's all right here. I have photos taken of a food source that hasn't changed throughout the entire time since the first sighting.
So I think in the best interest if we mutually agree to part company. I have an eviction notice prepared here...but I don't want to use it. If I give you this, then that means when someone calls for a reference, then I need to tell them that I gave this to you. It's going to hurt your chances at getting a new place. I'd much rather tell them that you decided to move for whatever reason and have you move on in your life on the best foot. And once the apartment is clean, I'll be more than happy to give you the sec.deposit back to do it....blah blah blah."
Have everything prepared. No time to think. Decision now. I have a letter pre-made right here. All you need to do is sign it. When people think, they start thinking its unfair, or alternate plans or the dreaded, "I've been an asshole, but I've changed" mentality. Quick quick quick. While they feel a little bit guilty, you strike.
Think it doesn't work? Had a couple that lived in the building for 22 years. Had bedbugs. Set up the system. They failed. I stood there and said, "easy way, or hard way?". Two months before, we did it to their friends, so they knew exactly what I was doing. Their friends had been there for like 13 years or some shit.
PS...I never take excuses from tenants. It's one of the things we do without question.
If its an absolute asshole of a tenant..the type that would just want to create trouble for the sake of trouble, I leave a written notice on the door with 3 days notice, or in person with one days notice.
They inevitably want to be there whatever.
"Absolutely. As I said in the notice, I'm entering at 3pm on Friday the 3rd. You are more than welcome to be home at that time."
"well I work then"
"I understand. Unfortunately, so do I and this is the time that I have set aside to take care of this issue. If you have questions relating to the rules of entry, I do encourage you to call the residential tenancy branch between blah blah blah"
Now keep in mind, there is safety in numbers. 75% of our tenants don't even know where we live, and their building is a work site for me.
But the key is, I don't like to set a precedent where they sway my choices.
We got in a fight with a guy a few weeks ago because he was complaining about some bs repairs and we said, "be in thurs" and he was on vacation. Could have changed what day I was going in...but didn't. He is always a bit of a hard ass and complains about everything.
You want to complain to our employer no less about us? Sure. You obviously have his number. But don't ask me for a favor...ever.
going in this evening to address some concerns like plugging up a small hole in the bathroom heater (perhaps a source of spiders and mice).... anyways, i'm pretty sure i'm going to see the same mess... I've never heard a vacuam cleaner and i'm sure they don't have a mop.
i'm pissed because my computer room is next to their suite entrance from inside the house and last night, BAM... a small mouse caught in my trap.
i'm basically going to tell them outright:
1. you guys have NEVER cleaned this suite... at all. I will be mandating that the suite be cleaned up as you are violating the rights to have a sanitary suite.
2. effective immediately, there will be monthly inspections... you will be given 24hrs and if you're in or not, I will be entering the suite.
3. if on the next inspection, the suite is still in the same state as today (assuming its a goddamn mess still), you will receive a written warning /notice to clean up within 2 weeks.
4. if within 2 weeks, the suite is not cleaned up a notice of eviction for just cause will be issued.
I've had enough of this and at this point I really don't care if it costs me money to kick them out.
Once you go into "distress" then your needs start to change from that of the tenant. You need to start documenting the issues(photos AND written accounts) and you need to start providing them with documentation. They won't sign or initial that they received it, so take a witness.
You have now decided that you want them out. Great! Welcome to tenant eviction. I can't remember what I said above, but basically you want to set up two avenues: the hard road and the easy road.
I agree fully with your plan. Make sure you write down on your notice what the issues are. What you want to do is set up the trap that they can either fix it to your satisfaction, or move. Further than that, you want to set up the hard roadd of being evicted, fighting for security deposit and honest references at their new place OR you can give me notice baby(the easy road).
So, I had a smoker with the same situation. I provided the notice that said you have to stop smoking inside, and documented everything that needed to be cleaned within the timeline. I think I gave him a month.
It was specific. Carpets-steamed, drapes replaced walls wiped down, etc.
What you want to build is that folder that when you go to them and say, "look, I don't want to evict you, but we can't have this situation."
You do the wilfred brimley.
" Here's what's going to happen. We're going to have a case at the branch that costs you $50 to dispute. Then, I'm going to provide these pictures, and the arbitor is going to have to agree that this could cause a mouse problem. I have a signed and witnessed document explaining a moneth ago what needed to happen to solve the issue, and I'm sorry, it just didn't happen..blah blah blah"
It's indexed. It's typed.
It's impressive.
Then you say, "look, what I really want to do is end on good terms here. You give me notice, and when people call me for a reference, i can honestly tell them that you weren't evicted. And you guys move out your belongings and I'll handle the cleaning and return your security deposit. But I need that notice now. I just so happened to have one written"
Boom. Right there. Everything is easy.
Their interest is money. They live in a basement suite...they arn't there because there was no room at the ritz. Your interest is time. Get these fuckers out.
Your plan is sound and legal.
REMAIN FRIENDLY!
I always tell them as they are leaving, "have a nice life" It's my way of saying fuck you to people that can cause you issues.
actually..to add to my post above.. i'm going to move things along ALOT quicker....
1. This evening, if suite is still messy/cluttered.. i'm issuing a 2 week cleanup notice.
2. in 2 weeks ~ Oct 7th, if it is still a mess... a warning letter is issued and they will then have 1 week to clean it up to original suite conditions.
3. Oct 14 if suite does not equal to pre-move in condition, eviction notice on just cause will be issued.
This allows me to move the matter along quite quickly... i'm not prepared to wait a month to do another inspection as I know they will put it off.
Gridlock, I will employ some of your suggestions and try and make this a friendly exit for them... thanks!
my logic for the above is based on this from the RTA:
2) Tenant's obligations:
a) The tenant must maintain reasonable health,
cleanliness and sanitary standards throughout
the rental unit and the other residential
property to which the tenant has access. The
tenant must take the necessary steps to repair
damage to the residential property caused by
the actions or neglect of the tenant or a person
permitted on the residential property by the
tenant. The tenant is not responsible for
reasonable wear and tear to the residential
property.
b) If the tenant does not comply with the above
obligations within a reasonable time, the
landlord may discuss the matter with the
tenant and may seek a monetary order
through dispute resolution under the
Residential Tenancy Act for the cost of repairs,
serve a notice to end a tenancy, or both.
It has come to our attention that you have not been maintaining the rental unit to overall cleanliness and healthy sanitary standards. The bathroom appears to have never been cleaned as the tiles are stained yellow. The clutter and disorganized mess that has accumulated in the main living space has attracted rodents – and note that this was never a problem with previous tenants.
A 2 week notice of ‘rental unit cleaning’ is effected with this letter. As per the RTA clause section 10 -2A, the rental unit must be maintained in reasonable health, cleanliness and sanitary standards.
Next inspection date is Oct 7th 2013.
Failure to comply with above may result in a cleanup fee charged to your damage deposit and/or eviction.
You aren't allowed to harass them. Now, in actuality, most people won't care about a 2 week schedule, but then, we aren't trying to evict most people.
From my experience, if you find something wrong with a tenant, they find 2 things wrong with you.
You are allowed a once a month inspection that they cannot keep you from doing. I would recommend that you do an inspection tonight, then a month less 3 days in October. Then, if its not clean, you can drop an eviction letter on them to have them out at the end of November. If you read the rules regarding service, if they aren't there in person, and you post the eviction, they have 3 days to receive...hence the month less 3 days.
You can inspect them anytime in October, but you won't be able to go in again legally. The mouse thing is kind of a grey area on if you can go in more than once a month, and if they choose fight-it will come up.
I'm still hoping you can manoever them into choosing the 'flight' option and getting them to piss off.
well... I had to go with a different approach with this... basically, the 'clutter' was still there as expected. I told them that this constitutes a fire hazard and MUST be cleared out. I will come by in 2 weeks to inspect and if the clutter / mess has not been addressed to my satisfaction, they will receive a warning letter that may lead to eviction.
basically.. i'm a landlord, not their mother telling them to clean up. so the above was a more viable approach as it now opens it up to a safety/health violation. The following exerpt was on their letter:
Health and Safety
• Clutter collects dust, which can be a tremendous trigger for asthma and other respiratory problems. Children, especially, are susceptible to respiratory illnesses resulting from debris and clutter. Older people are more susceptible to injuries caused by tripping or falling over clutter. Clutter that towers runs the danger of toppling onto passers-by. Above all, clutter becomes a fire hazard. It is not only a fuel source for the fire, but can block exits and cause firefighters to experience trouble accessing a residence.
Pests
• Insects and other pests love clutter. Mice, rats and other rodents can burrow deeply into larger piles of clutter. Insects and rodents not only make the clutter a den but they can eat paper and other items. Bed bugs are becoming more prominent, and they are able to thrive by hiding in piles of paper and clothing.
Some people take it very personally when you discuss their living habits(for good reason).
I've gone anywhere from tears from a grown man, to immediate acceptance and rectification. And those two extremes were both in the same building
They tried a sob story along lines of not fully financially recovered since his automobile accident several months ago. But otherwise no comment. They know the next inspection is oct 7 so I'll wait and see for my next action.
as per the above, the inspection was to happen today. However, yesterday the tenants gave notice to move out end of OCT so the plan worked. While its not quite 30 day notice.. I got what I wanted....them OUT!
EDIT: they even had the nerve to use me as a reference for their next landlord lol.
Happens all the time. Thankfully, very few people dig in and fight it out. We haven't had one yet....sorry, we've had one that put up a fight and he was a heroine addict and his next stop was homelessness, so I didn't blame him.
For the most part, people get that they dun goofed, and its easier to move on. Posted via RS Mobile
Quick Question....the suite is being advertised as FOR RENT. I'm getting calls...but what is the usual process for allowing viewings of the suite? give tenants 1hr notice if they're home? let tenants know there is a viewing that will take place if they are home OR not?
I usually do the customary 24 hours notice unless you and your tenants can come up with a plan, ie: you are free to show are any time between 9am and 5pm unless something happens (tenant is home sick, etc.)
Ideally, I book several showings at the same-ish time like Saturday at 1pm.
Your tenant can not stop you from showing, but they do require 24 hours notice. It can be frustrating when someone wants to view ASAP but if your tenants are dicks, it is what it is.
I tend to have a lot of success with tenants I text with....I will send them a text once the call comes in, "Hey, I have a showing booked this evening at 5pm". Most are cool with it. Its best if you just have a convo with them.
Congrats again on having a successful semi-eviction!
So...end of the month has arrived. these guys are finally moving out ... this morning I decided to go into the suite to take a look as they were not there (probably spent night in their new dwelling)...and wow, what a mess.
1. stains on carpeted area
2. window sills were black with dirt and most likely mould
3. I opened the fridge - they still had food in there and the smell that came out almost made me puke.
4. they still have ALOT of stuff to move out and I highly doubt they are going to be able to give the place a thorough cleaning job.
5. its going to take a FULL DAY of cleaning and sanitizing.
6 as suspected, the suite has NEVER really had a cleaning during their 1.3 year stay.
Anyways, they have a few more days to do so but my expectations are pretty low.
I had a lady show up yesterday to take a look at possibly renting it...but right off the bat... she's a smoker, got a cat, in her 50s, looked strung out... NO WAY!
I think I may consider incorporating that suite into the house and not bother renting it out... just gotta figure out what to do with all that space. It was a decent run... 4 groups of different tenants... first 2 groups were great... last 2 were terrible.
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