Whoe Rebuilds Coilovers in Vancouver area?

[BoostedBB6]

I have a set of Zeal coilovers for my Supra but the front two are blown and I want to get them rebuilt.

Are there any locak shops that can rebuild these?
I would end up doing all 4 just so they are all in perfect working order.

Thanks!

[BEEB]

The cost to get a shop to rebuild them would be enough for you to get a new set of H&R basic coilovers. I was gonna get my Cusco zero 2 rebuilt a few years ago and got quoted $800 + R&R labor and taxes. If your interested to get more information, I went thru Advance Auto in Richmond #6 Road. Talk to Johnny the owner.

[- kT]

have you tried giving speed syndicate a call?
Posted via RS Mobile

[godwin]

RMR Suspension in Abbotsford
Pacific Springs in Langley
BC Shocks and Struts in Surrey

Shop hour these days are $80-100+

[bcrdukes]

There are definitely pros and cons to rebuilding coilovers.

Pro:
- It's cheaper
- You get a shock dyno plot (I know RMR does this)
- You can have the shock valved according to your specifications to match your spring rates

Cons:
- You can't ball as hard compared to buying a new set
- Turnaround time

[BoostedBB6]

Looks like its going to be a case of taking them into the shops and see if there is anything that they can do as for rebuilding them. No one specializes in doing it from what I understand but RMR said they may be able to if they can take a look at them.

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by BEEB

The cost to get a shop to rebuild them would be enough for you to get a new set of H&R basic coilovers.

You're comparing apples to oranges. A basic set of coilovers like H&R do not offer rebound and compression settings compared to lets say a set of KWs or custom Koni/Bilsteins or in OPs case, ZEAL coilovers.

The overall cost savings and technical advantage in having his coilovers rebuilt far outweigh your example of just buying an off-the-shell H&R setup. The quote from RMR Suspensions is relatively in check with standard pricing given that nobody else really does that kind of stuff around here.

OP: In case you didn't know, ZEAL USA can rebuild your coilovers. The problem is it's not local and you have to ship them. http://www.endlessusa.com/#!__suspension-kit/overhauls

[trollguy]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

There are definitely pros and cons to rebuilding coilovers.


Cons:
- You can't ball as hard compared to buying a new set

This.

[godwin]

For cars that are older than 10 years (before rigid chasis are more common), a custom set of suspension will help for your daily driving pleasure. Modern cars (the ones that are less than 5 years old) you can really get away with the softest setting.

To properly rebuild / customize your suspension, you should have a baseline to measure against. Just getting 1 set dyno'ed and revalved is not a complete solution, you at least need a spare set so you are able to compare / swap against. That takes time, and quite a bit of data logging for very minute performance improvement. Add a strain sensor on each perch and an accelerometer (both are relatively cheap) you can quantify the harshness and weight transfer so you can get a handle on the characteristics. Thankfully those sensors are only a few bucks these days. (of course you will be driving over the same road for each test).

Properly shipping a set of suspension is a pita especially you are not supposed to lay them on the side etc etc. You pretty much have to build a crate out of 1/4s... that weight of the crate adds probably $100 to transport to California.

[bcrdukes]

This isn't F1 or LeMans.

[BEEB]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

You're comparing apples to oranges. A basic set of coilovers like H&R do not offer rebound and compression settings compared to lets say a set of KWs or custom Koni/Bilsteins or in OPs case, ZEAL coilovers.

The overall cost savings and technical advantage in having his coilovers rebuilt far outweigh your example of just buying an off-the-shell H&R setup. The quote from RMR Suspensions is relatively in check with standard pricing given that nobody else really does that kind of stuff around here.

OP: In case you didn't know, ZEAL USA can rebuild your coilovers. The problem is it's not local and you have to ship them. EndlessUSA

After reading Zeal on a Supra, I'd only pictured a set of 10+ years old coilover set in my mind. If OP would spend all the money to rebuild a set of Zeal coilovers, I thought he would be better off selling the old set for a few hundred bucks and acquire a hassle-free off the shelf set. For sure rebuilding the old set would far outweigh a BASIC H&R set, that's a $3000 vs $800 game. But economically, how much does it cost to bring it back to original spec ?

[godwin]

Sure it is not (for that league you have pros to interpret the data for you), but if you can't quantify and compare how the car feel under different rebound / valve settings; why bother buying them or refurbing them in the first place instead of going with BEEB's option? Other than bragging to friends your suspension got so many settings you don't know what to do with them?

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

This isn't F1 or LeMans.

[bcrdukes]

Rebuilding a shock and bringing it to "original spec" if you put it that way isn't difficult. You're really paying for labour and the parts/materials/shock dyno time. In the end, you have proof that your shock was rebuilt correctly and to spec. You do realize that there are off-the-shelf units that are poorly built from the get-go, right? Unless you do it the way godwin suggested, then logically, I can't see how rebuilding them isn't economical.

godwin - Are you suggesting that we should just go to Canadian Tire and pick up some Monroe shocks and call it a day? Or are you insisting people have to ball hard, take out a loan to get some Ohlins or Penske F1 spec'ed shocks in order for it to be "right?"

[godwin]

Nope, all I am saying is collect data and quantify before sinking in money, especially data collection is so cheap these days. Instead of just saying XXX brand was featured in Fast and Furious, so it must be good if I put in my car. That's a huge amount of placebo effect when it comes to suspension.

AFAIK, Ohlins, Koni, Bilstein and even Monroes you can get rebuilt kits. The difference is specificity and configurability for different applications (you get more options from the German steel companies). You have to admit, one can't really compare things effectively when there is no baseline or 2 of the same. (which basically most people do with car suspension, of course new suspension feels a lot firmer once they replaced a 10+ year old set!).

I would wager a correctly valved / calibrated application for a specific car and road set of Monroes can outperform a highly configurable oil dampered setup.. simply because it is lighter.

If I need to spell it out, Get informed, get data and don't do thing half assed. Especially if you do the work of getting the shock dynoed.. don't you want something to compare it against?

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

godwin - Are you suggesting that we should just go to Canadian Tire and pick up some Monroe shocks and call it a day? Or are you insisting people have to ball hard, take out a loan to get some Ohlins or Penske F1 spec'ed shocks in order for it to be "right?"

[bcrdukes]

I get your point and I respect it. Do it right the first time or don't do it at all.

But why does one have to go through such great lengths just to do something like replace an integral part of a vehicle? There has to be some kind of compromise or middle ground for run-of-the-mill enthusiasts, especially on a forum like this. We don't even know what OP's intentions are, whether to have a car simply for getting groceries, occasional track days, or a race-only car. To suggest anyone to go such great lengths such as your suggestion, quite frankly, is absurd.

[BoostedBB6]

Wow, that escalated quickly.

The car will be used for auto-x, track days and the occasional run to and from work ( 5 min drive)

I was considering rebuilding the Zeals as they are on the higher end of things when it comes to coilovers for the Supra (3k vs H&R for 1K).
Sure, it is easier to just buy a set of coilovers brand new but why spend the extra money when I can have a set that work just fine for less $$?

I could care less about bragging rights, or that its the newest thing out there. I really only care about function when it comes to something like this.
Like others have said, rebuilding these will allow me to have them re-valved for the intended use.

Depending on the cost and time to rebuild I may go this route or I may buy new. I guess it depends on the time. I will likely do this in the winter as I will be rocking the 4x4 for the colder months.

[BoostedBB6]

Correction, they are $7000 coilovers.

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by BoostedBB6

Wow, that escalated quickly.

I would liken it to "healthy discussion."

In the end, I think we can all agree to the following:

Fast / Cheap / Reliable - pick two.

[godwin]

Here is a simple data acquisition system (I would say under $600 in parts, most expensive will be the load cells and modify them to fit):

1. Arduino Mega
2. GPS + SD Card Datalogging shield form Adalabs (you will need a coin battery for the RTC).
3. GPS Antenna
4. Ambient temperature / humidity
5. A USB battery pack they sell at NCIX to power the system independently.

Then you add the sensors (hook the digital sensors directly to the digital io of the Mega board):
Basic data collection: (per axle)

1. Gyro for twists
2. Accelerometer
Each strut:
3. You can try these stretch sensors for the springs. (you should calibrate them first on the bench), however I would suggest to use this only within the same car, I don't think it is meant to be cross samples or axles.
4. IR Temperature sensor for each tire, more contact should generate more consistent and higher heat, which you want. If you are picky, mount 3 sensors, one outside, middle and inside
5. Button load cell for force transfer, you can stack sensors for the force range you want (I don't recommend it in this application). You would want to test mount it since you will need to modify the location for the sensor to fit. If #3 is too simplistic, you can get load cells and machine 2 clips to compress the cell when the spring is compressed.
Misc
1. If you have a strut bar, you can mount torque / twist sensor on it too.
2. Optional an angle sensor for the steering wheel. That would give some direct feedback on input.. but if you do that you mind as well wire up the throttle pedal, brake and clutch too.

I picked Ada and Robot labs because they are online and people can see pictures of the components. RP Electronics sells the parts locally at Rupert and Grandview. The setup is not automotive grade ie it is probably good for 5 runs the pins will shake loose ala SpaceX, but should be good enough for you to get the info.

Once you collect the information from the SD card, (should be in csv format) upload it to Google Engine and use Google Map Lite to visualise the results. I would suggest you do the data collection at night so there is a huge temperature difference between ambient and tire. Plan your drive and have some markers. Drive normally at constant speeds, you don't need to be racing. In fact the slower and steadier you drive, the more nuances you can read from the data. Plan your route, I would say Marine Drive in West Van past Suicide Bend Park to Whytecliffe Park then on Upper levels and back down to Marine Drive via Westmount; is a good test run. Use a dashcam to record your verbal notes.

Using a spreadsheet is how most companies do it to. Actually look back a few issues of Racecar Engineering, they had a pretty good tutorial. But these days computation power is cheap and using Google Engine you can overlay the data with their maps which is a huge bonus.

Now you can tell which suspension setup is better than the other quantitatively, assuming you are using a same set of tires and alignment settings etc are the same. You should be able to tell from the difference between temperatures, you can inference contact patch from the data.. load transfer etc. Spring rebound would be interesting but I am not sure it is that useful (or modifiable), since a shock rebuild mostly involve valving.

Hopefully the data can reinforce how you feel about the car with the different suspension settings.

Since the OP indicated he is into autox in a big way, then data acquisition is a logical step to go.. If you can afford a 7k suspension set, and a few houses, you can afford a couple hundred bucks of data acquisition gear.

[BEEB]

Holy crap, Godwin sure spent a lot of time on suspension ! For me, I would rely on the big names who did all the research and testing on a correctly valved suspension set, either a set of $1000 H&R, or a $2000 Bilstein or even $3000 KW.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by BEEB

Holy crap, Godwin sure spent a lot of time on suspension ! For me, I would rely on the big names who did all the research and testing on a correctly valved suspension set, either a set of $1000 H&R, or a $2000 Bilstein or even $3000 KW.

All the other kits are adjustable and it is this adjustability that Godwin is talking about.

For example, a set of Koni yellow's is only rebound adjusting.
On higher end shocks, they may be compression and rebound adjustable.
On the extreme end, triple/quad adjustable shocks allow you to tune low speed compression, high speed compression and rebound (high speed and low speed)
And this is after making sure the shocks are properly valved for the spring rates.

For example, on my ITR, I run the rear rebound at full stiff and the fronts close to full soft. This allows me to tune the car to be as close to neutral as you can get in a fwd car.

[BEEB]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

All the other kits are adjustable and it is this adjustability that Godwin is talking about.

For example, a set of Koni yellow's is only rebound adjusting.
On higher end shocks, they may be compression and rebound adjustable.
On the extreme end, triple/quad adjustable shocks allow you to tune low speed compression, high speed compression and rebound (high speed and low speed)
And this is after making sure the shocks are properly valved for the spring rates.

For example, on my ITR, I run the rear rebound at full stiff and the fronts close to full soft. This allows me to tune the car to be as close to neutral as you can get in a fwd car.

I know what he meant ! I did a full stiff at the back and softest in the front on my wrx wagon to achieve neutral handling on that AWD car as well. Even better, I'd achieved oversteer with solid heim joint in the rear but the car jumped too much for daily driver.