How to get the best seat on an airplane every time

[Amaru]

Originally Posted by urban.boi

So why not join a FF and won't have to worry about it, knowing you will be getting good seats?

Originally Posted by v_tec

Because OP flies a bunch of random carriers and LCC's where FFPs don't exist.

Yes, being part of a FFP is great as long as the airline you choose is part of a global network (ie. Star Alliance, SkyTeam) that gives you access to pretty much any city on the planet.

The downside (aside from missing out on upgrades and other perks) is that you feel obligated to fly that carrier, and legacy carriers (the only airlines that can offer you the global airline alliances) are often far more expensive, especially on the touristy "vacation" routes that I fly (US, Mexico, Europe in summer).

After considering various FFP's, I decided it would be less expensive to just go for the cheapest flights, regardless of airline. That way I can always pick the most affordable airlines, regardless of destination, and not worry about feeling like I have to fly Air Canada even though they're 50% more expensive than other carriers.

(I realize that you don't have fly your FFP carrier all the time if other airlines are way cheaper, but I've found that other carriers are almost always cheaper than legacy airlines on the routes I fly, meaning I'd never rack up many miles on the FFP and would regularly be paying a bit more money just to make use of the FFP).

I'm 27 and I'm hardly swimming in cash, so the only way I can travel relatively frequently is by shopping smart and being cost-conscious when it comes to flights and hotels.

If you fly for business, have money, or typically only fly to a few destinations (ie. annual trips to Hawaii and family visits to Toronto, etc) that are well-served by your carrier, then I completely agree that joining a FFP makes perfect sense.

Originally Posted by Eff-1

I think OPs strategy is unique, but personally not one that I'd follow. My carry-on baggage is carry-on for a reason: because the last thing I want to do is check it. Whenever I board a plane, I have one goal only: make sure I get space in the overhead bins. Whether that means boarding early as possible or whatever, that's the goal.

Fair enough. If you prefer to carry it on and don't want to check the bag, then my strategy of boarding last makes little sense aside from having the ability to grab a better seat.

(I realize that by doing this you run the risk of there being no overhead bin space, which is acceptable to me since I don't mind checking the bag if its free. But I'd usually take the risk anyway if the flight is 6+ hours long, as then seat choice becomes more important IMO.)

I typically prefer to check my bag, unless I'm only traveling for a few days or have no connecting flights (rare when your home airport is small like YYJ is). If I have several connecting flights at busy airports, a fairly large bag, or lots of liquids and gels that the CSBA/TSA would confiscate (fuckers!), I'll cough up the fee anyway and just let the airline deal with the bag until I arrive at the final destination.

Originally Posted by Eff-1

I appreciate the OPs opinion, however, but I can't buy it. Honestly the only place I would trust for FF advice is Flyertalk. OP, do me a favour and post your advice on FT and see what they say. If you end up with a bunch of FT users in agreement, then I stand corrected.

You're welcome to copy and paste it there if you like.

I don't really need validation, because it works for me much of the time and that's all I really care about (just posted it here to help out some fellow RS'ers).

I definitely realize from your replies that the 'check your big carry-on luggage at the gate' strategy only applies if the airline has a fee for checked bags, and if you don't mind (or want) to deal with the bag during your flight(s). In other circumstances, or for those who never want to check a bag, it doesn't make sense.

The "board last and get a great seat" strategy does work almost every time a flight is less than 100% full, so if you're not eligible for upgrades and aren't worried about overhead bin space, I still think it's a great way to find better seats.

Example: A few summers back I flew on a Thomas Cook A340 from Frankfurt to YVR (with a stop in YYC)... as you can probably imagine, it was hell. 12+ hours with screaming babies, smelly people, and bare-bones amenities. The plane was completely full except for 3-5 seats, one of which was a single seat beside the staircase (cabin was all economy, and all bathrooms were downstairs in a cargo deck converted to bathrooms). I was able to lean up against the wall (staircase was on the other side of a divider) and sleep for most of the flight. It was the best seat on the plane IMO, as it combined the best of both an aisle and a window seat. Would never have gotten that seat if I had boarded on time, as my assigned seat was a window many rows back of the one I ended up with and it was only obvious since I was the last on board and all but a half dozen seats were taken.

Doesn't always turn out as well as it did on that flight, but if the plane is less than 90% full there's usually a better seat available than the one you were assigned. The later you book and the worse your assigned seat, the bigger the payoff is for boarding last.

Another thing I didn't mention: this strategy also allows you to investigate the people sitting around your assigned seat. If you see something that looks like a potential nightmare (child, fat person, huge foreign family, Justin Bieber, etc) you can escape that headache even if it means taking a 'worse' seat with more desirable looking seatmates. (Or, you could just sit next to the hottest-looking girl on the plane and hope she'll accept your bag of stale peanutes in exchange for hourly blowjobs?)

Originally Posted by Eff-1

Actually this thread makes me appreciate my last flight even more. Cathay F class from HKG to YVR. While Y class is fighting for bin space, the FA was taking my coat and hanging it for me in my personal locker, followed up by a Johnnie Walker blue. Actually from what I remember, F class didn't even have overhead bins to create more space for the in the cabin for the passengers. Once in a lifetime experience.

Sounds ideal. I would very much like to be able to afford this and not have to use 'tricks' to enjoy tolerable flights, but until that's possible, I'll continue to do whatever it takes to improve the commercial flying experience while on a tight budget.

If it's coming out of your pocket, a single long-haul business class ticket could often buy you 5+ economy tickets on a low-cost or charter airline. As with most travelers, I'd prefer to save on flights and spend where it matters most (having a decent hotel, doing all the cool shit there is to do at your destination, having a rental car that I can destroy, buying a brick of cocaine, etc).

So in hindsight, I should've added a caveat to my OP saying "this strategy only works if, like I do, you frequently travel to many different places on many different carries with a tight budget".

[Amaru]

Another benefit to not being part of an FFP -- you get to take advantage of all this dude's deals, regardless of the airline offering them... YVR Deals | Cheap Flights & All Inclusive Vacations from Vancouver

[lowside67]

As to your point that not being a member of a FFP "allows" you to access those "great" deals... 3/4 of the deals on that page are StarAlliance and would allow you to accrue miles for an Air Canada / Aeroplan FFP.

You seriously have the biggest superiority complex ever for a guy whose advice is pretty spotty on the accuracy and usefulness...

[bcrdukes]

lol

brb, let me contact Aeroplan and tell them to relinquish all my Aeroplan points and Elite status.

[meme405]

FAA has no such regulation that forces a passenger to have his luggage on the plane he is on... That is just something that the OP made up.

You realize that a lot of flights includes cargo that is being shipped around the country?

It is not just baggage in the cargo hold... Again maybe 10 years ago it was, but not today with the cost of jet fuel where it is...

[Amaru]

Originally Posted by lowside67

As to your point that not being a member of a FFP "allows" you to access those "great" deals... 3/4 of the deals on that page are StarAlliance and would allow you to accrue miles for an Air Canada / Aeroplan FFP.

You seriously have the biggest superiority complex ever for a guy whose advice is pretty spotty on the accuracy and usefulness...

Thanks for the feedback; sorry you don't find my suggestions useful.

Not sure about the "superiority complex" comment, because I've already conceded that my advice won't work for everyone, and I am certainly open to other opinions and will certainly admit to being wrong if someone makes a good point.

As I've stated a number of times in this thread, the "check your baggage at the gate" strategy really only applies if you wanted to check a bag but didn't want to pay the $25 fee.

The "board the plane last to get a better seat" strategy, on the other hand, applies to anyone who isn't worried about overhead bin space... even if you've already been upgraded, you can still board last and find a better seat away from unwanted seatmates, away from the bathrooms, etc.

To be honest I just posted my tips here in hopes that some RS'ers would find them useful... If you don't agree with it or don't think it will work in your situation, then don't use it... I really couldn't care less. But, I've done this succesfully 25+ times on many different airlines and routes, and it has never once backfired on me, hence the desire to share this strategy publicly with others. If you try it and it doesn't work for you, please report back and let me know why.

Originally Posted by meme405

FAA has no such regulation that forces a passenger to have his luggage on the plane he is on... That is just something that the OP made up.

You realize that a lot of flights includes cargo that is being shipped around the country?

It is not just baggage in the cargo hold... Again maybe 10 years ago it was, but not today with the cost of jet fuel where it is...

Yeesh, and others are questioning the accuracy of my posts?? If you think something I've posted is inaccurate, please feel free to point it out, I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong... but you should probably have some idea what the fuck you're talking about before you accuse me of "making something up".

First of all, I'm fully aware that commercial aircraft carry mail and other cargo freight along with passengers. I've actually even mentioned that in another post in this thread. But it has nothing to do with checked passenger luggage, and freight falls under a whole different set of regulations.

There is something called "Positive Passenger Bag Match" (PPBM) that is required on all international flights (in Europe and North America, anyway). It has been in place for many years, mainly in response to the Air India bombing.

In a nutsell, PPBM means airlines and ground staff use software to match passenger lists (collected by the gate agents and verified by flight attendant head counts) with checked baggage manifests (collected by the ticket agent when you check your bag and the tag is scanned). If a passenger is not on a flight but his bag is in the cargo hold, the airline will remove the bag before they push back from the gate.

The main reason for this is security (can't put a time-rigged bomb in a checked bag and then not board the plane) but it also ensures that airlines don't have to transport luggage back to the original departure airport if someone bails on a flight.

PPBM is not mandatory on US domestic flights because all checked bags at US airports are screened so it's considered unnecessary. After 9/11 there was some proposed FAA regulation that tried to make it mandatory on US domestic flights as well, but it was shot down by airline lobby groups and the screening of checked bags made it redundant. I am not 100% sure on this, but I think some US carriers may have internal policies that require PPBM be used on domestic routes even though it's not government-mandated.

Of course there are exceptions to this... such as if the bag is accidentally misplaced, improperly tagged, not scanned by baggage handlers, or if you miss the flight. But airlines do not intentionally put an international passenger's luggage on a different flight unless there's a legitimate reason, such as a lost bag or a mistake by ground crews. Generally speaking it's far more likely that your bags will arrive late (due to a screwup or lost bag) than early (which almost never happens on international routes).

[meme405]

Originally Posted by Amaru

Yeesh, and others are questioning the accuracy of my posts?? If you think something I've posted is inaccurate, please feel free to point it out, I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong... but you should probably have some idea what the fuck you're talking about before you accuse me of "making something up".

First of all, I'm fully aware that commercial aircraft carry mail and other cargo freight along with passengers. I've actually even mentioned that in another post in this thread. But it has nothing to do with checked passenger luggage, and freight falls under a whole different set of regulations.

There is something called "Positive Passenger Bag Match" (PPBM) that is required on all international flights (in Europe and North America, anyway). It has been in place for many years, mainly in response to the Air India bombing.

In a nutsell, PPBM means airlines and ground staff use software to match passenger lists (collected by the gate agents and verified by flight attendant head counts) with checked baggage manifests (collected by the ticket agent when you check your bag and the tag is scanned). If a passenger is not on a flight but his bag is in the cargo hold, the airline will remove the bag before they push back from the gate.

The main reason for this is security (can't put a time-rigged bomb in a checked bag and then not board the plane) but it also ensures that airlines don't have to transport luggage back to the original departure airport if someone bails on a flight.

PPBM is not mandatory on US domestic flights because all checked bags at US airports are screened so it's considered unnecessary. After 9/11 there was some proposed FAA regulation that tried to make it mandatory on US domestic flights as well, but it was shot down by airline lobby groups and the screening of checked bags made it redundant. I am not 100% sure on this, but I think some US carriers may have internal policies that require PPBM be used on domestic routes even though it's not government-mandated.

Of course there are exceptions to this... such as if the bag is accidentally misplaced, improperly tagged, not scanned by baggage handlers, or if you miss the flight. But airlines do not intentionally put an international passenger's luggage on a different flight unless there's a legitimate reason, such as a lost bag or a mistake by ground crews. Generally speaking it's far more likely that your bags will arrive late (due to a screwup or lost bag) than early (which almost never happens on international routes).

So I was right, there is no FAA regulation...

Also sounds to me like not having enough time to load a bag onto a flight, or a full cargo hold sounds like reason enough to put the bag on the next flight... Especially considering I have had that happen to me on both a KLM flight and an Air Canada flight. (And these were both trans-continental flights).

The reason this is perfectly acceptable is because PPBM only protects in one scenario. When you check a piece of baggage onto a flight, if you do not board that flight they will remove the baggage. It does not mean that the airlines must put you and the baggage on the same flight. (AKA the bolded part of all of the above, which you stated was an exception, is the only thing PPBM is actually intended to prevent against.

So I stand behind exactly what I said, you just made that shit up, and called it a fact. Even though it had no bearing on what others pointed out. So how about you go learn what the fuck you are talking about.

[v_tec]

Originally Posted by Amaru

To be honest I just posted my tips here in hopes that some RS'ers would find them useful... If you don't agree with it or don't think it will work in your situation, then don't use it... I really couldn't care less.

You seem to care quite a bit and defend each + everytime someone disagree with you

[Amaru]

Originally Posted by meme405

So I was right, there is no FAA regulation...

Also sounds to me like not having enough time to load a bag onto a flight, or a full cargo hold sounds like reason enough to put the bag on the next flight... Especially considering I have had that happen to me on both a KLM flight and an Air Canada flight. (And these were both trans-continental flights).

The reason this is perfectly acceptable is because PPBM only protects in one scenario. When you check a piece of baggage onto a flight, if you do not board that flight they will remove the baggage. It does not mean that the airlines must put you and the baggage on the same flight. (AKA the bolded part of all of the above, which you stated was an exception, is the only thing PPBM is actually intended to prevent against.

So I stand behind exactly what I said, you just made that shit up, and called it a fact. Even though it had no bearing on what others pointed out. So how about you go learn what the fuck you are talking about.

So what you're saying is that I "made up" a policy that:

a) exists;
b) applies to all international and some domestic flights; and
c) functions essentially in the same manner as I stated.

The greatest piece of irony is that you say I "made up" this concept.... and then in your next post you proceed to use the technical term ("PPBM") to refer to this policy that apparently only exists in my imagination.

I'll certainly concede that I was completely wrong in suggesting that it was mandated by the FAA, and I apologize for any confusion... (although I think this mistake on my part is somewhat understandable, given that the FAA is the body that sets US civil aviation policy, and given that a mandatory PPBM regulation was proposed to the FAA but then rejected because the TSA began screening all checked bags anyway).

If you have insider info or knowledge that I don't... or if you see a mistake or inaccuracy in one of my posts... then by all means, please correct it for the benefit of myself and everyone else who reads the thread. But simply saying "you're wrong, you made that shit up" when I was simply unclear on the details is not helpful, productive, or informative. (I suppose this is RS, and I should know better than to expect every poster to add something to the discussion, but if you're going to troll and shit on threads, at least be amusing...)

To address your point about luggage being left behind on international flights... yes, as I said previously, the PPBM policies are designed to prevent would-be terrorists from copying the Air India bombing by checking a timed bomb into a checked bag and then bailing on the flight.

So, as I said, the only reason an airline will transport a bag without the owner on board the plane is if there's an unintended fuckup by the airline or the airport that was neither requested nor planned by the owner of the luggage. If the passenger doesn't know or want his bag to be left behind or put on the wrong flight, then obviously he doesn't have a bomb in it or is suicidal, neither of which are preventable through PPBM.

Does this apply to my OP? No, not really. If I remember correctly, my post about PPBM was in response to a suggestion that you can lose your bags if you check them with the airline.... which is completely true and not something I'd ever argue against. It's a risk you take when you check a bag, but personally I prefer to check my bags when I fly... I just hate the fees associated with checked bags....

...hence my "check it at the gate" strategy described in the OP. If you check your bag on the gate, there's no PPBM issues, and there's no chance of it being sent to the wrong place or being left behind (at least on this flight) since it is walked down the ramp and placed into your plane's cargo hold while you're walking down the jetramp.

The short story is that checking your bag as you're boarding the plane (rather than at the ticket counter) reduces the chance of lost luggage, allows you to avoid the fee if there is one, and does not contradict the policy of PPBM.

Originally Posted by v_tec

You seem to care quite a bit and defend each + everytime someone disagree with you

Yeah, well, I guess chomp down on troll bait every time....

What I meant by that was that I don't care if you (or anyone else for that matter) chooses not to use my 'board last' strategy. Like I said, everyone has different travel priorities, habits, and preferences... and clearly what I've said only applies to those who have the same travel philosophies as I do.

So, yeah, I don't care if you take my advice or not... but I'll certainly reply to meaningful, thoughtful posts and with those who suggest something I've said is 'wrong' or 'bad advice' when they've either misinterpreted what I'm saying or my strategies simply don't apply because of their travel and airline preferences.

In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have bothered making a thread knowing I would get sucked into an argument over semantics or a difference of opinion, but then again maybe someone will benefit from the tips in my OP and make it somewhat worthwhile.

I'd like to say that I'll just go away now and not waste any more time on this thread, but really RS is like crack and I'm like Rob Ford, so I'm sure I'll continue to participate if anyone else replies with something meaningful....

[urban.boi]

Originally Posted by Amaru

Sounds ideal. I would very much like to be able to afford this and not have to use 'tricks' to enjoy tolerable flights, but until that's possible, I'll continue to do whatever it takes to improve the commercial flying experience while on a tight budget.

If it's coming out of your pocket, a single long-haul business class ticket could often buy you 5+ economy tickets on a low-cost or charter airline. As with most travelers, I'd prefer to save on flights and spend where it matters most (having a decent hotel, doing all the cool shit there is to do at your destination, having a rental car that I can destroy, buying a brick of cocaine, etc).

You are not doing it right then. You can travel on J/F class for cheap if you know how to play/maximize the points game

[G]

Man this is turning into FT lol. I also don't know half of the acronyms they use...

So, long story short, do y'all know of a secret or tip on getting upgrades? Haha, I have a couple international flights in December on AC

[tool001]

op, by the looks of how much u know about flying,, i presume u fly alot? if so, u should already be gold status on both major alliance and automatically get upgraded???

[v_tec]

Originally Posted by G

Man this is turning into FT lol. I also don't know half of the acronyms they use...

So, long story short, do y'all know of a secret or tip on getting upgrades? Haha, I have a couple international flights in December on AC

Yeah, it's not gonna happen. I can tell you that now.
There will be plenty of AC*E35/50/75/100 and *G members ahead of you.

Originally Posted by tool001

op, by the looks of how much u know about flying,, i presume u fly alot? if so, u should already be gold status on both major alliance and automatically get upgraded???

Refer to post #21 + #22.

[tool001]

^ yeh but i want op to chime in as per his status..

[urban.boi]

Originally Posted by tool001

^ yeh but i want op to chime in as per his status..

Originally Posted by tool001

op, by the looks of how much u know about flying,, i presume u fly alot? if so, u should already be gold status on both major alliance and automatically get upgraded???

I think OP already answer for us... No FFP or just the entry level to collect points when he fly on whatever carrier.

Originally Posted by Amaru

After considering various FFP's, I decided it would be less expensive to just go for the cheapest flights, regardless of airline. That way I can always pick the most affordable airlines, regardless of destination, and not worry about feeling like I have to fly Air Canada even though they're 50% more expensive than other carriers.

(I realize that you don't have fly your FFP carrier all the time if other airlines are way cheaper, but I've found that other carriers are almost always cheaper than legacy airlines on the routes I fly, meaning I'd never rack up many miles on the FFP and would regularly be paying a bit more money just to make use of the FFP).

[urban.boi]

Originally Posted by G

Man this is turning into FT lol. I also don't know half of the acronyms they use...

So, long story short, do y'all know of a secret or tip on getting upgrades? Haha, I have a couple international flights in December on AC

No secret, just fly more and earn stats/upgrade certs
but December on AC is pretty tough tho.

[G]

Hmm, let me throw another question (I am a noob). I have a 4 hour layover in Vancouver prior to my flight to Korea, I have 1 checked luggage and no carry-ons. Am I allowed to step out of the airport for a bit?

TBH Aeroplan kinda sucks for frequent flyer updgrades and stuff. Even at Elite 50/75k, you only get upgrade certs for Canadian flights and bonus %'s... Kind of wish they gave stuff for international. I end up getting vouchers for friends/family for MLL's...

[SkinnyPupp]

Last time I moved to a seat in an empty row, the stewardess told me to move to my assigned seat until take off is complete

[tool001]

^That's because they need to seat count/cross check with passenger list .. Usually.. Quite rarely pilot will move people around..

That's how they found 3-4 people with fake tickets recently trying to get into Canada, they were already sitting on the plane
Posted via RS Mobile

[urban.boi]

Originally Posted by G

Hmm, let me throw another question (I am a noob). I have a 4 hour layover in Vancouver prior to my flight to Korea, I have 1 checked luggage and no carry-ons. Am I allowed to step out of the airport for a bit?

Yes you can step out of the airport have a quick meal with friends/family. Just be back on time! (Happen to me once, missed a flight

Originally Posted by G

TBH Aeroplan kinda sucks for frequent flyer updgrades and stuff. Even at Elite 50/75k, you only get upgrade certs for Canadian flights and bonus %'s... Kind of wish they gave stuff for international. I end up getting vouchers for friends/family for MLL's...

I don't know your flying pattern but you can try earning status with UA for those upgrade certs for international flights. or other *A carriers that offers better upgrade certs. Sorry I don't know which one is the best as I'm more of a OW guy than a *G, I just got status match over to *G recently.

[meme405]

Originally Posted by Amaru

So what you're saying is that I "made up" a policy that:

a) exists;
b) applies to all international and some domestic flights; and
c) functions essentially in the same manner as I stated.

No you're not getting it.

MY POINT IS IT ISN'T AN FAA REGULATION. NOWHERE DID I SAY IT ISN'T A POLICY OF SOME AIRLINES, IT JUST ISN'T MANDATED BY THE FAA. YOU CLEARLY JUST MADE UP THE FACT THAT IT IS AN FAA REGULATION TO GIVE MORE POWER TO YOUR POST.

Exactly as I stated in my first post when I came into this thread:

Originally Posted by meme405

FAA has no such regulation that forces a passenger to have his luggage on the plane he is on

You just chose to be an idiot, and made my point for me. One more time: THE FAA HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PPBM, SO YOU ARE WRONG.

Also, you say that they will put your baggage on the flight if you check it at the gate, we are saying there is every possibility they say, fuck you, and decide against re-opening the cargo doors and put your baggage on the next flight. PPBM does not affect this scenario at all, I will re-iterate: the only time the terms of PPBM come into effect are when you check a piece of luggage and do not board the flight. They ABSOLUTELY must remove that piece of luggage before continuing along. It does not in any way shape or form prevent them from putting your luggage on any other flight to the same destination, regardless of whether it is that same day or 5 days from then.

I am especially inclined to think any budget airline such as the ones you fly on, will probably say screw you and decide to toss your crap on the next flight. Why should they give a fuck, you didn't pay for the use of their capacity, and you held up their flight by being waiting to be the very last one on the flight. Just to get yourself a better seat that again you didn't pay them for.

[G]

Originally Posted by urban.boi

Yes you can step out of the airport have a quick meal with friends/family. Just be back on time! (Happen to me once, missed a flight

Lol! I was thinking of doing exactly that. I arrive at YVR 7:37AM (hopefully I arrive early) and my flight to ICN is at 11:40AM. Hopefully that gives me enough time to run out, grab some breakfast in Richmond and head back in! Maybe enough to go to the MLL and get some booze

[Z3guy]

Originally Posted by xilley

never had this issue, always first class.

you are either really rich, really stupid, or just don't know the value of a dollar....I fly business once in a bluemoon, but I am not paying for it personally.....first class is 8x more expensive than economy....I don't care how comfortable first class is, I would rather fly economy + buy a really nice set of wheels Vs flying 1st class.....

[Eff-1]

Originally Posted by meme405

No you're not getting it.

MY POINT IS IT ISN'T AN FAA REGULATION. NOWHERE DID I SAY IT ISN'T A POLICY OF SOME AIRLINES, IT JUST ISN'T MANDATED BY THE FAA. YOU CLEARLY JUST MADE UP THE FACT THAT IT IS AN FAA REGULATION TO GIVE MORE POWER TO YOUR POST.

Exactly as I stated in my first post when I came into this thread:

He admitted he was wrong about that and even apologized for it.

[bcrdukes]

meme405 is a flight risk in addition to being a car bomb.