Malaysian Airline loses contact with passenger airline

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Originally Posted by snails

@ ulic...

have you ever dealt with a close death?

thinking about the posts above has encouraged me to enlighten you.

when i was 17 (6 years ago) i came home one day to my dad who had hung himself in the hallway of the front door. its pretty fucked up for a 17 year old to see his dad chillin there like that but i reached my closure quickly because i knew what happened. not just because me and my brother had to take him down.

he left a letter for us. it described why he had done what he had and that he cared for us regardless but his time has ended for him.

to him. it was justified and i had a hard time after that. but knowing it was his choice brought me closure. to the point im completely comfortable talking about it because death is part of life.

BUT

if my dad just disappeared and i was told he was dead with little/no information of why.. i would spend a lot of time wondering.. why.. where.. how..is he suffering? can i do anything.. you know because im a human and not some fucking animal.

i would be pretty disappointed if i disappeared and people were so quick to write me off as dead.

who is to say the plane didnt go down close to some remote island and there are a handful of survivors? sure that may be 0.0001 % but to those family members thats enough.

sorry for your loss.

but there is a difference. if your dad just up and disappeared (i have stated this example before), moving on is a little harder.

but, these passengers didn't just up and disappear. they were on a plane. it is a plane related incident. and statistically, almost all plane related incidents are fatal, and due to human error, mechanical error, or inflicted damage (hijacking etc).

yes there is a 0.0001% chance they're still alive.

just like there's a 0.0001% chance aliens will come down and give us awesome technology to go back in time and fix everything we ever wanted.

you can't put hope into those small chances.

say in the future they DO find them or figure out exactly what happened.
great... but that will come regardless... u know what i mean?

if they figure out the mystery 1 week from now or 50 years from now. the day will come. and you don't wait for it or demand the people to look HARDER.

you know what i mean?

they're already looking. they'll find an answer eventually (hopefully).

that day WILL come. don't sit around waiting for it. move on. and the day the info comes... will be the day it comes.

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

Well then you're dwelling on the people who can't let go. Not everyone is that way. You say no one in history has gotten closure from knowing all the details. You don't know that and if you think you do maybe you're the one who needs to see the shrink.
Posted via RS Mobile

yes im dwelling on people that can't let go.
the ones that can, obviously forgive and forget. and move on.

the ones that can't are the ones that keep crying for the government...demanding governments and corporations to TRY HARDER.
but really.. like i said above. the answer will come. just not as fast as they want.

"There are two kinds of pain. The sort of pain that makes you strong, or useless pain. The sort of pain that's only suffering."

which do you think this is?

this is about acceptance. and obviously there are tons of people that don't get this.
you accept it, because you have NO CONTROL over it. destiny, fate, determinism, whatever you wanna call it.

acceptance is the first step to get over things. and demanding others to find an answer for you, is not acceptance.









my quarrel isn't with people that want info. they can have their info.

my quarrel is them hating on the government and airliner for not having an answer RIGHT NOW, FOR THEM. cuz they DEMAND it. they NEED it for closure (or so they think it will help).

you don't fucking blame a detective or get angry at him cuz he cant find your killer NOW. cuz you want to satisfy some immediate impulsive feeling to KNOW. it's not their fault. and they're TRYING. you get what i mean?

is this clear?
they are making absurd demands.
like little kids wanting their reward NOW. wanting the answer NOW.
you fucking wait. theyre trying as hard as they can. if they find nothing, and never find anything... that is a result that one should have already accepted too.

you cannot be attached to outcomes. whatever outcome happens, answer or not, you should be satisfied. of course you hope for an answer, but if no answer comes... you can't fucking cry like a baby.

this is clear now right?

[Hondaracer]

Thing is, you guys are just assuming what "closure" is

So find a peice of plane?
Find the black box?
Find bodies?
Find the voice recorder?
Get a $$$ payout?

What's closure?
Posted via RS Mobile

[snails]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Thing is, you guys are just assuming what "closure" is

So find a peice of plane?
Find the black box?
Find bodies?
Find the voice recorder?
Get a $$$ payout?

What's closure?
Posted via RS Mobile

knowing what happened to the plane imho would be closure. if it was terrorist that hijacked the plane now they are torturing the occupants (unlikly but i read someones theory about it) or if they hit the water and exploded leaving nothing more than fish food. eliminating that 0.0001% i was talking about. yes, dead is dead and you cant go back in time. but you also cant stop yourself from thinking and wondering while there is no answer.

like i said. unless you have dealt with a close death its hard to judge what can bring closure. for me, assuming they are dead isnt good enough.

[MarkyMark]

Ulic would make a great detective when someone's kid gets napped.

"You fucking wait, I'm trying here. Listen, Jimmy's probably dead and having an open casket ain't going to help you move on, trust me I'm also a shrink on weekends"
Posted via RS Mobile

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

i'm sure a lot of detectives are like that. you have no idea how cynical cops are.

as for snails.

yes eliminating the 0.00001% .... but that's absurd.
when you conduct studies or experiments or execute strategies, whether lives depend on it or not (war, etc)... you don't count the 0.0001%
because those drag you down. they're a waste of time. the likely hood of that happening is well 0.0001%.... u understand?

just like they're not going to bother doing investigations on aliens abducting the airplane, or blackholes, or whatever. yes there is a 0.000001% those may happen too!!!
but you don't put effort into that, cuz there's situations with MUCH higher %. like the plane crashed and everything is lost at sea.

again, im not saying "they up and vanished and dead" and thats good enough.
im saying "they were on a plane that most likely crashed in the high seas".

you think finding the plane is closure... but what if they don't find it?

sorry to bring up your father, but... what if he decided to do what he did elsewhere, and he didnt leave you a letter? say he just up and vanished.

would you still be grieving now? what about 5 years from now? 10?
when does it end? when will you accept? never? that CANT be right...

don't you think if you choose to accept all outcomes before they happen... your life would be a lot better regardless of what they find?

say you want to find the details (we all would)... but you also accept there is a good chance they will never find anything... wouldn't your life IMMEDIATELY start to be better?

if you accept both results... they may find something, and they might not. when the results come forth (which is out of your control, you aren't an investigator or a major player in this incident), great. that is what part of you had hoped for.

but what if it never comes? shouldn't you cover your own ass and cover all results?

im gonna use an example, and i don't want you to think im belittling your dad. but it's an example ppl can relate to.

when you go up to a girl and you ask her out. the good players hope she says yes, but are prepared for rejection. and when they get rejected, it's shitty, but it's OKAY, they move on.

you guys kinda get what i mean?
you shouldn't be attached to any one outcome. ESPECIALLY when it is out of your control. no amount of willing, and wishing will change the outcome. like i said, you're not the investigator. you're not the one putting up cash for the planes and boats to fly and sail around looking. you're just an observer. it's like watching a movie. whatever outcome happens, you accept it and you move on.

i'm not telling people to give up. or accept whatever happens to them.
if you are trying your best to achieve a goal, while you are trying, you don't give up. you try to do your best. but if you do your best, and you fail, and there's no more tries left... you accept the result. because that is the HARD result which you have no control over anymore. that scenario/event is OVER. acceptance of the result is KEY. otherwise you'll let it drag your life down... for all of eternity through the afterlife if you are religious.

[Matlock]

Saw this on reddit yesterday... (I don't think it was posted on rs yet)

Header: So my friend found this at work today in Australia...

Spoiler!

Source So my friend found this at work today in Australia... - Imgur

[snails]

i get what your saying.. in a world of 6-7 billion people whats a couple hundred.. peanuts..

but we are talking about closure.. that only matters to those involved.

as goes for my situation. if you talk to anyone that knows me the first thing they will tell you is how lighthearted i am in bad situations. there is always a silver lining.

but thinking about it now. knowing my dad just up and disappeared and didnt know what happened to him. that shit would haunt me. i think about his passing MAYBE once a week.. thats not to say we didnt get along but i get the concept of moving on. unfortunately its not something one can choose to do. kinda like telling someone not to have nightmares.. or saying the word "RED" and telling people not to think about red things. they can do things to avoid the situation.. but you cant control your thoughts, that gut feeling and being kept up at night wondering about this.

again. if this was me. i rather open the door and see my dad hanging like i did.. then have had him do it elsewhere and me never know that he had even passed away

[anxiety]

If they do find the body in the sea, it's probably in pieces or like cardboards that are pressed already, based on how deep the sea is in the region where they crashed, and the pressure.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Originally Posted by snails

i get what your saying.. in a world of 6-7 billion people whats a couple hundred.. peanuts..

but we are talking about closure.. that only matters to those involved.

as goes for my situation. if you talk to anyone that knows me the first thing they will tell you is how lighthearted i am in bad situations. there is always a silver lining.

but thinking about it now. knowing my dad just up and disappeared and didnt know what happened to him. that shit would haunt me. i think about his passing MAYBE once a week.. thats not to say we didnt get along but i get the concept of moving on. unfortunately its not something one can choose to do. kinda like telling someone not to have nightmares.. or saying the word "RED" and telling people not to think about red things. they can do things to avoid the situation.. but you cant control your thoughts, that gut feeling and being kept up at night wondering about this.

again. if this was me. i rather open the door and see my dad hanging like i did.. then have had him do it elsewhere and me never know that he had even passed away

yes, i understand you rather of seen what happened.

but im saying what if you didnt? cuz you didn't have a choice anyway right?
like yes, i agree... you cant control your thoughts all the time. but you can certainly try to change that.

im saying what if he did up and disappear? cuz u have no choice and power in that situation... you WOULD be more haunted and thinking about him more. i agree with that. BUT... you cant change the result right? so wouldn't you at some point of your life, have to seriously try to accept and move on?
what im asking is, at what point would you accept? at what point will the family's of the victims try to accept?

cuz unlike you, they didnt get to see what happened. and there's a huge likely hood they will never. so... how does one deal with that? that's what im trying to get at.

sure, hope for a miracle of the 0.0001%, but the 99.999% HAS to have more weight and bearing than the 0.0001% right? i mean its 99.999%! i mean, think about it... being held down your whole life cuz of some 0.0001% thing or looking at it with a right mind and seeing that 99.999% is MOST PROBABLY what happened and the story MOST PROBABLY will stick to that probability... and you MOST PROBABLY will have to deal with that for the rest of your life.

then what? what choice do you have? what person in their right mind would NOT want to try to move on and accept? the person that holds onto that 0.0001% chance i guarantee will have a miserable and sad life.


let me give you an example:
if in 2 years, one or some of the families of the victims still are bringing this up, and suing or demanding closure... how would you perceive them?
what about 10 years? what about 20? 30? 40? 50?

what if enough time has passed that most of those people would have died of natural reasons already?
at what point does demanding closure seem ridiculous? never? that cant be correct.

[MarkyMark]

Like snails already said, telling someone to move on and actually moving on are not the same. You can't force yourself to just get over something. You can keep busy, try to find acceptance of the situation, but if you still have that shitty feeling in your gut what do you do then?

I'm a firm believer that time heals things better then anything else. How much time that is differs for everyone. Your logic that they need to just move on and they'll feel better is flawed, because you can't force something like that.

In your scenario you're pretty much telling a guy with a fucked up spinal cord to just get up and walk.
Posted via RS Mobile

[snails]

@ ulic

we are very good at arguing, but we both have our points and yes i agree with some of them. but we will end up repeating the same stuff over and over so too save the websites bandwidth ill just chalk my final comment up to Markymarks's comment

Like snails already said, telling someone to move on and actually moving on are not the same. You can't force yourself to just get over something. You can keep busy, try to find acceptance of the situation, but if you still have that shitty feeling in your gut what do you do then?

I'm a firm believer that time heals things better then anything else. How much time that is differs for everyone. Your logic that they need to just move on and they'll feel better is flawed, because you can't force something like that.

In your scenario you're pretty much telling a guy with a fucked up spinal cord to just get up and walk.

[Verdasco]

any TL DR summaries lol

[EmperorIS]

Originally Posted by Verdasco

any TL DR summaries lol

Ulic said: don't be a pussy emo bitch. Get over it.

Others said: I like pussy. It taste good. I sad for reason. Peace dawg
Posted via RS Mobile

[AzNightmare]

Ok... so to sum this up, when Ulic reads the news, he just reads headlines. Cause the article containing the details aren't important.

When Ulic watches sports... never mind. He doesn't even need to watch it. The score isn't important either. Just finding out if the team won or loss is good enough.

I think I'm starting to understand Ulic.

[nah]

He would be the dad that tells his daughter to "man up bitch and walk it off".

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

In your scenario you're pretty much telling a guy with a fucked up spinal cord to just get up and walk.
Posted via RS Mobile

no, i'm telling the guy with the spinal cord injury to stop being depressed about losing his ability to walk or whatever else he lost and accept and move on.

if there will ever be a medical fix for it, it will come and you hoping and wishing won't make it come faster. the day it comes will be a nice surprise. and if it doesn't come, it's okay too, cuz you've already accepted your accident and you know you can't go back in time and fix it. there's only one direction. forward.

you accept what has happened and you move forward cuz you cant possibly change it.

if the spinal cord injury say u just get knocked out and u wake up a few days later in the hospital and no one knows what happened. they just found you with a broken neck. yeah.. i would tell him to man the fuck up and deal with it. cuz being a cry baby ain't gonna fix your spinal cord or help your mental health. knowing what happened wont fix your spinal cord. and you'll probably just develop a hate for whoever did it to you. and a personal revenge is a lot harder to get over than an external loss.

but being okay with it and moving forward, you'll be able to accomplish a lot more and be a lot happier in life.

I am sure everyone would agree with me here.

if not. well, just go visit GF strong and see how the psychologists deal with the spinal cord injury patients there.

Like i said, any cognative/psychologoical therapist will say everything i have said in this thread, but in a much more kinder and professional way tailored to the victim.

i ain't tailoring what i say to the victim. i'm saying it bluntly.

[underscore]

After a page of Ulic's long and pointless posts, can we get back to info on the plane instead of Ulic's nonsense?

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by underscore

After a page of Ulic's long and pointless posts, can we get back to info on the plane instead of Ulic's nonsense?

But there is no info on the plane...

[MarkyMark]

Ulic - "it didn't happen to me so man up and get over it, it's easy!"
Posted via RS Mobile

[AzNightmare]

Humans by nature are curious. Which is why we even bother reading the news (like this one), and trying to come up with theories when the facts aren't present. The bottom line is, we want to know the facts. And this is coming from random strangers who have no ties with the people or this event. Now think about what the actual family and friends are going through.

We're talking about different types of closures here...
The closure of knowing the facts and cause of a death is different from the closure of trying to get a settlement, such as suing the Airline. Also, the "closure" of when one begins to accept a friend or family member that died is completely different from closure on finding out how they died.

The Elisa Lam incident was a big mystery for a few months. I'm sure being kidnapped and being involved in human trafficking crossed someone's mind. A whole bunch of other theories must have crossed people's mind, including strange ones (like murdered by a ghost, alien abduction, etc) surrounding the big mystery of her disappearance. I'm sure her family and friends were very unsettled by the whole ordeal. Regardless if nothing would bring her back, the fact when they found her body in a water tank and discovered there was no foul-play involved, must have lifted a lot of weight off the family. At least now they know she isn't being tortured in some third world nation in a cave.

And it's always "easier" to move on and let go when you're 100% sure the person is dead, and not just long-term "missing".

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

some of you thick headed dumb fucks just have to think of it this way:


say your best buddy's mom was on that plane.

your buddy comes up to you one day and tells you he doesn't know how to deal with it anymore. he cant take his mind off of it. he's feeling like shit and he doesn't know... he just doesn't know what to do... he's lost.. he's in despair.

what would you tell him?

"oohhhh don't worry they'll find them, you'll get closure"

"keep seekin that closure, it'll come bro"

BULL FUCKING SHIT. you guys are fucking assholes if you encourage that type of thinking!

you would be more like:


"time will heal it man"

in combination with something like:

"well perhaps you should consider a different perspective and approach to thinking... i mean, what if they never find out? will you let this drag you down for the rest of your life? i think perhaps regardless of whether they find out or not, you should start to work on your path to acceptance of the current situation... you can still hope for the best, but keep that on the back burner... don't cling onto that hope. move forward man, your friends and other loved ones are around you to support you. you can do it!"

the you give him a bro hug or a pat on the back. and in time he will forget about it and move on the best he can, by accepting. or he'll cling on forever and lead a miserable life. the choice is still up to him.

SO? which friend are you?

"keep lookin for dat closure brooooo, here i made a map, if you follow the dots you'll find that closure at the X. derp derp. if u dig deep enough, eternal happiness will be waiting there too~~~"

[MarkyMark]

Stop telling us what we would and wouldn't do Nostradamus. Honestly I would probably tell him I can't imagine what he's going through and let me know if there's anything I can do for you.

I definitely wouldn't go on some dumb fucking rant like "what if they never find your mom what are you gonna do then??? Now's the time to just get over it man, I would have if my mom died like that lol"

"Yeah you're right man fuck it I don't know why I was so hung up on this whole my mom tragically dying thing"

*high five each other*

/Ulics world.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

My example stated that he is in depression and is asking for your advice.
He is already approaching you cuz of your friendship and the expected "let me know if there's anything I can do to help"

He's asking for your help

What is your advice

I ask again. Answer the fucking question.

Your reply is generic and he's heard it from every person that he's talked to.
Rip
Condolences man
I can't imagine what you're going through

You're just another drop in the bucket

What's your real advice man?
He's asking you what to do? Other than seek professional help. Which I have stated, they would say the same thing I did.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Are you also implying that if you seeked professional help and they told u to detach and move forward in life. You'd tell them to fuck off and that they're wrong cuz you have your own way? That they don't understand your pain and need for closure?

You're the type to storm outta the psychs office cuz they lay a method out for you that doesn't match your expected values of the situation?
Are you that blinded by ego and emotion that you're that fucking retarded? That u cannot understand the concept of moving forward vs clinging onto hope?

In a few months or less the general public will have forgotten and moved on

In a few months or years majority of victims families will have moved on as well

In a few years the only ppl that have still not moved on are the ones I am describing. The ones that even with time, they will never let go.
I am targeting them.

What would your solution for those types be?
Posted via RS Mobile

[Hondaracer]

It's like those people who were "abused" by an uncle, relative, etc to carrying degrees

Now at 21 their complete life is literally ruined, they're living on the streets and they are a drain on society

At some point you have to get over it
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