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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
Probably the biggest barrier people have to working on art is the fear of being criticized for it.
A lot of people are good writers/painters/actors/singers but they are waaaaay too afraid to show or tell someone. Developing a thick skin and understanding that whatever avenue you choose to express yourself with you're going to find more people vocalize that you suck before you'll ever find any fans.
One of my ex-best friends constantly name-dropped some celebrity dude he hangs out with once a year, but because he's famous and has a name in Hollywood the guy would constantly talk about how cool he is and speak like he was star-struck by buddy. I mentioned that I was working on a novel describing how reality is so far divorced from my expectations of adult dating and the guy basically went off on me and said I was an idiot for even thinking about putting my voice out into the world. A lot of other artists I've met found that the people who they expected to find support for their craft tend to be the very people who tell them their dreams aren't worth chasing. Finding that one first fan can be so difficult, but once you've got a following than the snowball starts really rolling downhill. Once you're at the level where people would recognize you walking down the street, everyone wants to be around you. Bill Murray could walk into a bar nearly anywhere in the world and walk out having drank for free and with a couple of hot chicks.
Sure, there ARE lot of people who aren't very talented who want to be in the arts, but even Eminem started by selling CDs out of the back of his beater. JK Rowlings was rejected a dozen times before being published. The key to working at art is to self-generate a confidence in your work and refine yourself internally. Blocking out the unimportant exterior noise and allowing yourself to grow is probably the most challenging part of being creative, and it absolutely lends itself to Kanyeism.
Yeah, I sound like an asshole talking about that chick downstairs, but I've been nothing but friendly and I never complain when she parties. We literally went a few minutes after 11 with the majority of the noise and the only noise from like 11:15-12:00 was a few things being moved and a couple C-stands got knocked over. You'd think she'd be friendlier and even be curious to know what we're working on, given that we're neighbors, hell if the situation were reversed I'd be stoked for her and her business!!! I love supporting locals!
Even though I do get off joking about the beige lives of 9-5'ers, I'll be the first person to chat up retail workers and treat them like people. I haven't forgotten what it was like to work a 9-5 job for minimum wage where if the boss doesn't like your haircut on a particular day your ass can be sent packing. It can be very dehumanizing to work a shit job just to scrape by and survive.
If my antics can entertain, put a smile on people's faces, or make people think then I'm doing my job as an artist. Like nearly anything in life, it takes a lot of trial and error to get in your groove.
Even though I do get off joking about the beige lives of 9-5'ers, I'll be the first person to chat up retail workers and treat them like people. I haven't forgotten what it was like to work a 9-5 job for minimum wage where if the boss doesn't like your haircut on a particular day your ass can be sent packing. It can be very dehumanizing to work a shit job just to scrape by and survive.
Do you really believe that all 9-5 people work de-humanizing jobs, and just scrape by?
haven't you ever rustled the ant colony? to see verify if you were right in your predictions of how they would systematically break their normal routine? watch them scramble around, and then watched as moments pass, they go back to the way they were and forgot what the fuck just happened... and they never learn. they always react the same way. every single time. they get all angry and fearful and try to bite your fingers and shit, but really, they have no clue what the fuck they're doing. lol.
you rustle ants, so you know exactly how they behave, so the next time you have to rustle them in real life, you know what they'll do, because on the internet they reveal deeper and more inner thoughts that you could never extract out of them in real life.
and then with that knowledge, you can manipulate them. especially if they think you're an ant too. but really, you're an ant eater... in ants clothing? LOL. and the internet is just a laboratory for your experiments. an endless amount of lab rats at your disposal. the funny thing is, they always keep coming back for more. the sad thing is, they always react the same. but once in a while you get an oddball rat, the one that looks left, when all the other ones look right. you take that rat, and you befriend it. because that rat, together with you, will achieve great things.
but to be honest, their replies have been starting to get slightly more constructive. they're actually bringing real arguments to the table now. well, at least one of them. there's a leader amongst them after all.
lol, at them thinking im an "artist" trying to make a "quick buck"... wild assumptions. all artists know, art is not the path of money. they think i'm some guy that writes (no offence meant jason), or throws colors at the wall and calls it art. when they clearly don't understand when i say artist, i encompass all of art. they themselves are probably artists, i mean, afterall, we are on a car modification site, which is an art within itself... they just clearly lack the foresight to realise that. they say it like they've never sat around with their friends trying to think of ways to make money. except they failed, and now they've subconsciously accepted their daily routine, and take pride in it. because like any normal human being, one has to take pride in something, or they'll feel like a worthless piece of shit. which is understandable. but sometimes it's fun to poke at the unfortunate, just to see which one's are still aware of the fact that they've succumbed to what society has thrown at them and give them some reminder that they don't have to be that way. that they don't have to count pennies for their next vacation. or pick which days they can eat out. or turn off their heaters in the winter cuz they don't want their electricity bill more than their comfort levels.
if i'm so in love with money, then i must be an artist, cuz... artists love money right?
like i've said before. I don't love money. ideally, the world should be abolished of money.
except i've realised the world is a battlefield in which one must pick up the sword and swing to get what you want. or submit to someone else swinging a sword. and in this world that sword is money.
I don't care what your values are. if you don't have money, and you're happy... GREAT. but don't be so fucking selfish. cuz all you're thinking about is yourself. what about your loved ones? your children (future children for most of you). what about your friends that could use some cash? what about that guy on the corner of the street? you guys ever thought of that?
I'm SURE your awesome 9-5 job will take care of them. oh yeah, totally. I'm sure your kids will go through the BEST they can receive. I'm sure your parents in old age will be taken care of 110%. I'm sure your wives will totally enjoy you telling them you're gonna have to take that flight with two connections on your next vacation cuz the direct flight was out of your expense range.
i'm not knocking on poor people. i see tons of people read this thread. and i know tons of people agree.
my argument here is not for those who have replied. it's for those who are wise, and sit in silence and read and think about what i've said. and tomorrow they'll go out and try harder, to achieve actual greatness. to be able to support others. and not just think of their OWN selfish values, and their OWN fucking lives ALL the god damn time (not directed at you jason, art is an exception. art is to be displayed to others, in hopes of evoking something inside them. where as the rest of these guys are in some service industry, their work is serving some other industry, both directed by someone on top, they are the providers... not them).
i'm sure you guys love your 9-5 job. good for you. i'm sure there are 1000x as many other people that hate theirs and wish they had more money, so they can go out and do what they really want to do.
you guys have been lured out to be set as an example, to the others who still have hope of achieving greater things. we don't really care what you think, or what you do. but you're good examples for others, other people who don't wanna be you.
if this thread lasts till tomorrow, i'll have replies to their replies.
disclosure: i am not a troll. but i'm sure 320icar is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by multicartual
Spoiler!
Probably the biggest barrier people have to working on art is the fear of being criticized for it.
A lot of people are good writers/painters/actors/singers but they are waaaaay too afraid to show or tell someone. Developing a thick skin and understanding that whatever avenue you choose to express yourself with you're going to find more people vocalize that you suck before you'll ever find any fans.
One of my ex-best friends constantly name-dropped some celebrity dude he hangs out with once a year, but because he's famous and has a name in Hollywood the guy would constantly talk about how cool he is and speak like he was star-struck by buddy. I mentioned that I was working on a novel describing how reality is so far divorced from my expectations of adult dating and the guy basically went off on me and said I was an idiot for even thinking about putting my voice out into the world. A lot of other artists I've met found that the people who they expected to find support for their craft tend to be the very people who tell them their dreams aren't worth chasing. Finding that one first fan can be so difficult, but once you've got a following than the snowball starts really rolling downhill. Once you're at the level where people would recognize you walking down the street, everyone wants to be around you. Bill Murray could walk into a bar nearly anywhere in the world and walk out having drank for free and with a couple of hot chicks.
Sure, there ARE lot of people who aren't very talented who want to be in the arts, but even Eminem started by selling CDs out of the back of his beater. JK Rowlings was rejected a dozen times before being published. The key to working at art is to self-generate a confidence in your work and refine yourself internally. Blocking out the unimportant exterior noise and allowing yourself to grow is probably the most challenging part of being creative, and it absolutely lends itself to Kanyeism.
Yeah, I sound like an asshole talking about that chick downstairs, but I've been nothing but friendly and I never complain when she parties. We literally went a few minutes after 11 with the majority of the noise and the only noise from like 11:15-12:00 was a few things being moved and a couple C-stands got knocked over. You'd think she'd be friendlier and even be curious to know what we're working on, given that we're neighbors, hell if the situation were reversed I'd be stoked for her and her business!!! I love supporting locals!
Even though I do get off joking about the beige lives of 9-5'ers, I'll be the first person to chat up retail workers and treat them like people. I haven't forgotten what it was like to work a 9-5 job for minimum wage where if the boss doesn't like your haircut on a particular day your ass can be sent packing. It can be very dehumanizing to work a shit job just to scrape by and survive.
If my antics can entertain, put a smile on people's faces, or make people think then I'm doing my job as an artist. Like nearly anything in life, it takes a lot of trial and error to get in your groove.
i would thank you if i could, but it seems like some admin has just removed those buttons from you for some reason (edit: lol now it's back).
i agree that most people live their lives in fear, they all have some great ability, but are too fucking pussy to show it off, or actually take the time and dedication to excel in it (or perhaps they just simply don't have the time... 9-5 maybe?)
they succumb to what they've been fed, but really, they don't know the people on top are totally taking advantage of them. rolling in dough as they slave away everyday. perhaps they enjoy it. but i know they can enjoy more. it's just too bad they've never even seen it.
what's worse are people that are born into the lower middle class or below. chances are they've never seen real money, or enjoyed/experienced anything to do with "a lot of money". they just don't know... at all. they perceive money as what they see on the news and in gossip magazines. rappers and other pop stars doing ridiculous things. billionaire bankers buying mega yachts. little do they know, there are millions of people that are "rich". they arent billionaires, but they sure do have a much easier life than theirs. they just don't know it.
for those of you who work 9-5 and break the 120k+ per year income. i applaud you. really! it's quite an achievement (if you don't know, you're very close to the top 1%, with some smart investments you'll easily be in the 1%). but c'mon. we all know most 9-5's don't even make close to that. what? 75-80k AT BEST? most of the kids on this site, even if they make close to 80k, don't have families or kids. they've been rolling in that cash solo, duh. of course that feels satisfying. wait till you have a wife, and kids. they will demand shit. see how well your 80k a year is. If you never want kids, or a family, and you're satisfied going solo forever. well good for you. but again, like the people bashing the nightowls in this thread, i can use your argument right back at you. you're in the minority. no one cares about you. like how that feels?
and instagram followed.
Last edited by Ulic Qel-Droma; 03-14-2014 at 02:14 AM.
Do you really believe that all 9-5 people work de-humanizing jobs, and just scrape by?
Absolutely not. There are a lot of people with very fulfilling 9-5 jobs who get to go home at the end of the day and leave work at work!
However, there are many, many more people who are perpetual debt slaves who will work until they die and never be able to explore much of life. I am truly blessed to have porn income because it's such a steady cash flow.
Ever noticed that most of the people you see working shitty 9-5 jobs in retail or service are also ugly people?
You never, ever find hot chicks working fast food, for example. We are entering into a Brave New World where those who win the genetic lottery are almost guaranteed an easy life.
If you are a fat, short, ugly woman or man your life is going to be EXTREMELY difficult compared to if you are tall, handsome, and fit.
Occasionally there is a Lena Dunham or Roseanne Barr that breaks the stereotype of female success icon, but for the most part if you're not good looking you'll never be shit. I know that the biggest things I can do to help my authoring career is write more, lose weight, look better and work on my image!
Ulic is a smart guy, he has a good grasp of how the world works. It can be pretty fucking depressing to think that money is truly the key to the world.
The more money you have the more you can make whatever you imagine come true.
what's worse are people that are born into the lower middle class or below. chances are they've never seen real money, or enjoyed/experienced anything to do with "a lot of money". they just don't know... at all. they perceive money as what they see on the news and in gossip magazines. rappers and other pop stars doing ridiculous things. billionaire bankers buying mega yachts. little do they know, there are millions of people that are "rich". they arent billionaires, but they sure do have a much easier life than theirs. they just don't know it.
Yes, and all of the damage caused by promotion of an image like a gangster rapper that causes so much pain and suffering in the ghettos where the rappers don't live anymore.
If anyone read my book it definitely does NOT promote a drugs, alcohol, and hooking up lifestyle. It works to illuminate the downsides of it and how people's morals have gone to shit.
Life imitates art, art that imitates life is just poor art
Same with my porn promotion, I know that the porn I profit from causes a lot of bad juju, confuses people sexually, and actually harms relations between men and women. It also breeds narcissism like crazy!!! Either I am going to get out of the porn business if my writing ever takes off or I will eventually make some sort of ethical pornography that cuts the actors in for a % of the profits and I will obscure the faces of the actors somehow. Perhaps through DoF or lighting.
I have an idea to setup a bed with 5 7D Canon cameras that are always static, fixed pointing in certain directions. Then I would take a couple and have them have sex on the bed in positions that would be marked on the bed in clear tape for where to put their bodies. 2 minutes of doggy, 2 minutes of reverse cowgirl, 2 minutes of her on top, 2 minutes of missionary(guy leaning back and top-down view), and 2 minutes of whatever else view, etc etc. The way it would be setup is that you never would see their faces but their bodies would be shown and filmed in smooth 60 FPS with perfect lighting.
Minimalist porn. The videos would always be like 20 minutes long edited together with these 2 minute segments of the same angles over and over between different episodes and different couples. Or maybe I could just fuck the chicks I would hire myself, with condoms of course, don't want the herps. There would be a photoset of "clothed/unclothed" for the woman at the start. That way your mind can completely objectify her body without having to see her face. Then anyone could be a pornstar and protect their anonyminity. The modern adult industry makes me ill and it has very, very few actual artists involved in the production of it. Cutting the women in for 10% lifetime earnings for their episode would also prove to be much more ethical than the current model of paying the people one time for something that will make the owners sooooooooo much money over years of the content being online.
We are entering into a Brave New World where those who win the genetic lottery are almost guaranteed an easy life.
lol this is the sickest thing i've seen in my life. I have witnessed this first hand in every megalopolis i have been to. The most notable right now is china. women born with exceptional beauty are guaranteed to be millionaires. GUARANTEED. and i say that with no exaggeration.
of course i can already sense the disgusted snarls from the righteous. but unlike them, i realised there is what you perceive to be ideal, and what reality is. and reality is hard to change. instead i embraced it. they ARE lucky, they ARE very fortunate. instead of hating on them, i applaud them. they are born 10000 steps ahead of the rest... who can only hope to be born with better genetics, or more intelligence or wisdom in their next life... if reincarnation is even real lol.
it's funny cuz at the end of the day, these beautiful people have no idea how lucky they are. They are basically modern day blue blooded royals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by multicartual
The more money you have the more you can make whatever you imagine come true.
lol, not to twist your words, but, that means a lot of people in this thread lack imagination. hahaha.... they're not born to be wizards. just the serfs that serve the wizards. what can ya do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 320icar
I'm not a troll bro. I'm just an asshole Posted via RS Mobile
Originally posted by v.b. can we stop, my pussy hurts... Originally posted by asian_XL fliptuner, I am gonna grab ur dick and pee in your face, then rub shit all over my face...:lol Originally posted by Fei-Ji haha i can taste the cum in my mouth Originally posted by FastAnna when I was 13 I wanted to be a video hoe so bad
haven't you ever rustled the ant colony? to see verify if you were right in your predictions of how they would systematically break their normal routine? watch them scramble around, and then watched as moments pass, they go back to the way they were and forgot what the fuck just happened... and they never learn. they always react the same way. every single time. they get all angry and fearful and try to bite your fingers and shit, but really, they have no clue what the fuck they're doing. lol.
you rustle ants, so you know exactly how they behave, so the next time you have to rustle them in real life, you know what they'll do, because on the internet they reveal deeper and more inner thoughts that you could never extract out of them in real life.
and then with that knowledge, you can manipulate them. especially if they think you're an ant too. but really, you're an ant eater... in ants clothing? LOL. and the internet is just a laboratory for your experiments. an endless amount of lab rats at your disposal. the funny thing is, they always keep coming back for more. the sad thing is, they always react the same. but once in a while you get an oddball rat, the one that looks left, when all the other ones look right. you take that rat, and you befriend it. because that rat, together with you, will achieve great things.
but to be honest, their replies have been starting to get slightly more constructive. they're actually bringing real arguments to the table now. well, at least one of them. there's a leader amongst them after all.
lol, at them thinking im an "artist" trying to make a "quick buck"... wild assumptions. all artists know, art is not the path of money. they think i'm some guy that writes (no offence meant jason), or throws colors at the wall and calls it art. when they clearly don't understand when i say artist, i encompass all of art. they themselves are probably artists, i mean, afterall, we are on a car modification site, which is an art within itself... they just clearly lack the foresight to realise that. they say it like they've never sat around with their friends trying to think of ways to make money. except they failed, and now they've subconsciously accepted their daily routine, and take pride in it. because like any normal human being, one has to take pride in something, or they'll feel like a worthless piece of shit. which is understandable. but sometimes it's fun to poke at the unfortunate, just to see which one's are still aware of the fact that they've succumbed to what society has thrown at them and give them some reminder that they don't have to be that way. that they don't have to count pennies for their next vacation. or pick which days they can eat out. or turn off their heaters in the winter cuz they don't want their electricity bill more than their comfort levels.
if i'm so in love with money, then i must be an artist, cuz... artists love money right?
like i've said before. I don't love money. ideally, the world should be abolished of money.
except i've realised the world is a battlefield in which one must pick up the sword and swing to get what you want. or submit to someone else swinging a sword. and in this world that sword is money.
I don't care what your values are. if you don't have money, and you're happy... GREAT. but don't be so fucking selfish. cuz all you're thinking about is yourself. what about your loved ones? your children (future children for most of you). what about your friends that could use some cash? what about that guy on the corner of the street? you guys ever thought of that?
I'm SURE your awesome 9-5 job will take care of them. oh yeah, totally. I'm sure your kids will go through the BEST they can receive. I'm sure your parents in old age will be taken care of 110%. I'm sure your wives will totally enjoy you telling them you're gonna have to take that flight with two connections on your next vacation cuz the direct flight was out of your expense range.
i'm not knocking on poor people. i see tons of people read this thread. and i know tons of people agree.
my argument here is not for those who have replied. it's for those who are wise, and sit in silence and read and think about what i've said. and tomorrow they'll go out and try harder, to achieve actual greatness. to be able to support others. and not just think of their OWN selfish values, and their OWN fucking lives ALL the god damn time (not directed at you jason, art is an exception. art is to be displayed to others, in hopes of evoking something inside them. where as the rest of these guys are in some service industry, their work is serving some other industry, both directed by someone on top, they are the providers... not them).
i'm sure you guys love your 9-5 job. good for you. i'm sure there are 1000x as many other people that hate theirs and wish they had more money, so they can go out and do what they really want to do.
you guys have been lured out to be set as an example, to the others who still have hope of achieving greater things. we don't really care what you think, or what you do. but you're good examples for others, other people who don't wanna be you.
if this thread lasts till tomorrow, i'll have replies to their replies.
disclosure: i am not a troll. but i'm sure 320icar is.
i would thank you if i could, but it seems like some admin has just removed those buttons from you for some reason (edit: lol now it's back).
i agree that most people live their lives in fear, they all have some great ability, but are too fucking pussy to show it off, or actually take the time and dedication to excel in it (or perhaps they just simply don't have the time... 9-5 maybe?)
they succumb to what they've been fed, but really, they don't know the people on top are totally taking advantage of them. rolling in dough as they slave away everyday. perhaps they enjoy it. but i know they can enjoy more. it's just too bad they've never even seen it.
what's worse are people that are born into the lower middle class or below. chances are they've never seen real money, or enjoyed/experienced anything to do with "a lot of money". they just don't know... at all. they perceive money as what they see on the news and in gossip magazines. rappers and other pop stars doing ridiculous things. billionaire bankers buying mega yachts. little do they know, there are millions of people that are "rich". they arent billionaires, but they sure do have a much easier life than theirs. they just don't know it.
for those of you who work 9-5 and break the 120k+ per year income. i applaud you. really. but c'mon. we all know most 9-5's don't even make close to that. what? 75-80k AT BEST? most of the kids on this site, even if they make close to 80k, don't have families or kids. they've been rolling in that cash solo, duh. of course that feels satisfying. wait till you have a wife, and kids. they will demand shit. see how well your 80k a year is. If you never want kids, or a family, and you're satisfied going solo forever. well good for you. but again, like the people bashing the nightowls in this thread, i can use your argument right back at you. you're in the minority. no one cares about you. like how that feels?
and instagram followed.
I love how your post about not being a slave to money deluged into an entire thesis on how much money I will, in your mind, never make.
I'm going to leave this conversation now because I don't feel the need (like john chow would, haha throwback to that thread it is TBT afterall, oh wait its friday now...) to divulge my income or financial situation to any one person. Let alone to say it in a public forum on the internet.
What I will say is that based on your last paragraph you have lost touch with reality almost entirely, or maybe its just that you have completely lost your mind if you cannot see the earning potential in 9-5 jobs. I would like to point out that bill gates, warren buffet are both 9-5ers, the margin of millionaires created by 9-5 jobs far exceeds that of the one created by aspiring artists.
Bill gates once said something that stuck with me as it did with many others:
Quote:
If you are born poor its not your fault. But if you die poor its your fault.
Anyone can be rich, just takes a some work.
I can tell you what it certainly doesn't have to entail: It doesn't take becoming a night owl, or starting up a porn business, and it certainly doesn't entail pissing your neighbors off by being a douchebag and an asshole.
(Yes that last part was a stab at showing you how far you have drifted this topic off its mark because you have literally lost every single argument you have started)
I can tell you what it certainly doesn't have to entail: It doesn't take becoming a night owl, or starting up a porn business, and it certainly doesn't entail pissing your neighbors off by being a douchebag and an asshole.
Yes, such an asshole for attempting to create cool shit and drifting a little bit beyond 11 PM on a Tuesday night. What a douchebag. Very jerk. Such rude.
I'm so sorry that she had to listen to a few thumps and some footsteps from 11:30-12:00.
Oh the humanity!
Truth is, she moved into a building that has a high % of commercial use. She is trying to force people like me to adapt to her. I only had 1 noise complaint before and that's when an uppity gay couple moved in and they complained about everyone on my floor until they moved out. Same shit goes for this chick, I just have to wait until the 2k a month rent gets a little too much for her and noodle handshake to handle.
It's the same shit when people move across from a nightclub or airport then complain about the noise.
Yes, such an asshole for attempting to create cool shit and drifting a little bit beyond 11 PM on a Tuesday night. What a douchebag. Very jerk. Such rude.
No you are not an asshole for making noise a little after 11PM, but go back and read the first 2 pages of this thread because you are an asshole after all of that...
I would like to point out that bill gates, warren buffet are both 9-5ers, the margin of millionaires created by 9-5 jobs far exceeds that of the one created by aspiring artists.
Bill gates once said something that stuck with me as it did with many others:
I can tell you what it certainly doesn't have to entail: It doesn't take becoming a night owl, or starting up a porn business, and it certainly doesn't entail pissing your neighbors off by being a douchebag and an asshole.
if you consider bill gates and warren buffet, as 9-5er's, YOU are clearly the one who is out of touch with reality.
they are 9-5's because they CHOOSE to be. they could VERY easily be whatever time they wanna be.
the whole thread is about CHOICE. OPTIONS.
you can't phone up your boss and call off the next week. or change a meeting to suit your schedule in some super weird off hour time.
but guess what, gates and buffet can. in fact they can completely stop working. the world can be starving and they wouldn't HAVE to help out at all and live their luxurious lives (although im sure they would help). but you on the other hand... can you do those things? can you call any shots that aren't totally out of the social norm?
can you just decide to take 3 months off? half a year? a year or more? no.
what if you found a hobby you really loved. could you just QUIT your job and do that for the rest of your life? RIGHT NOW. NO.
I don't know how much you make, but trust me. our definition of 9-5 is not bill gates. nor warren buffet (you can say any financial trader is 9-5, cuz markets are open during that time, in that case, i am 9-5 too, or i should say, 6-1 cuz we live in the west coast).
dude, i'll throw it out there and guess that you make well above 150k a year. even if you make 250-300k+ a year, well, good for you. really, cuz that is an achievement.
but you must realise, you are a minority. the rest of the people here that work 9-5, don't fall under your definition of 9-5. they fall under jason's and my definition of 9-5. Jobs with little to no hope of exceeding 100k a year.
if you make far more than that in a 9-5 job, you are way above the 1%, and you're actually representing our side of the argument.
I hope you know that.
corporate moguls and other CEO or high technical skill types that make well over 100k a year, are NOT 9-5ers. they already have WAY more choice than the people we're talking about.
perhaps we should change the term 9-5 to: careers that you want to get out of, because you're near or at the cap, and you cant support a whole family all by yourself. you rely on your spouse who also works a similar income job. or even worse, you can barely support yourself, and with the way things are going, you wont have enough money to ever retire. ever.
that is OUR definition of 9-5.
i can't believe you used billionaires as examples of 9-5.
you also seem to have not absorbed WHY we choose to peruse money the way we do. not because we wanna be rich. but because we want to be free, and to be able to express our creative thoughts, and translate them into THIS reality. FREEDOM. 9-5, shifts, routine... whatever you want to call it, does not ALLOW one to be free. i don't care if you make 300k a year, but you work for some corporation, and you can't roam free and do other things. other things that take up MORE time than your job. you're not free.
the emphasis has always been freedom and options. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU "DONT WANT" TO DO IT. if you don't have the choice, you don't have a say.
like all the idiots that say they're content with their corollas, and they don't want ferrari's. well guess what, they don't even have a FUCKING CHOICE. so what good is their opinion?
and by the way, who cares what the originally thread is about. we changed it.
last note, you should really do you research on night owls before you bash them. for a lot of night owls that are night owls well into their adulthood. it's not by choice. just like it's not your choice you're most efficient in the day time and if you were forced to perpetually live the night owl shift, your physical and mental capacity would slowly break down. for the same reason old people generally are all larks. you think they CHOOSE to be? if you think so, i think you should do your research.
there are plenty of people with circadian rhythm sleep disorders. it's already been identified in the ICSD and DSM. sure laugh all you want, but it's real. and with the rising rate of ADHD, the next generation and generation after that, you'll see a shit ton more night owls (adhd is genetically linked to circadian rhythm disorders)...i'd like to think you guys are not laughing at the fact that i think ADHD is real too. because if you haven't seen what ADHD looks like, you really have no clue.
You guys seem to think most people that live at night (all around the world), do it by choice. open your eyes. just like you're genetically disposition is to function in the day. there are many others who have a genetic disposition to function at night.
you wait till there's enough of these people that live whack hours. when they start demanding you have meetings during your dinner time, or bed time, or breakfast time. see how you like it.
not just night owls. there are plenty of larks and other people with other "invisible disabilities", who live totally weird hours. such as waking up at 2am-4am perpetually (larks). people with internal clocks that are longer than 24 hours hence never being able to adjust to "9-5".
you bashing night owls, is the same as bashing a blind man or someone with glasses., yeah they are minorities too. to many, it's not a choice. you realise how much of a fucking asshole you sound like to people who have this knowledge. especially the medical community... right? and i'm not talking about a fucking night shift worker that is forced to work that job cuz they have no other jobs available.
you also realise, the only reason 9-5 exists is because of old traditions when we lacked artificial light and other technologies. and when farmers and gatherers had to get up and go gather food and shit when they had light. you do realise your traditions are fairly archaic and slowly dying out. you do know that right? you have been to a city where the density is at least 4-8 times vancouver's right? you do realise when you walk out at 3am there are a SHIT ton of people still doing stuff.
open your eyes. judge not by what you see in vancouver. for vancouver is small. judge the world, BY the world. if you haven't seen the world, i suggest you go out and take a look.
the middle east is a perpetual night owl society. of course this is due to the heat experienced in the day. but people don't leave do anything until the sun sets. malls close at midnight.i suggest you go to the UAE when you have time. you'll be surprised at their attitude of the night. it's pretty much reversed of most of the western world.
i can rule out that you're not a well travelled person (and i don't just mean vacations and sight seeing. i mean actually living in other non western cities for months or years and absorbing the culture). and i can rule out that you're most probably not a medical doctor, or have any education related to evolution of human beings.
i beg you people that haven't travelled much, you visit 3 cities, that have a population that at least exceeds all of canada. stay there for 3-6 months. you'll be quick to learn, that 9-5 is archaic. you'll learn quickly that we're living in the past in terms of what the "norm" is, and that very quickly, within 1-2 generations, we'll catch up to where they are.
Last edited by Ulic Qel-Droma; 03-14-2014 at 03:41 AM.
Bill gates once said something that stuck with me as it did with many others:
If you are born poor its not your fault. But if you die poor its your fault.
Nikolai Tesla died penniless
Van Gogh died penniless
Oscar Wilde died penniless
Edgar Allan Poe died penniless
Jesus Christ died penniless
Napoleon Bonaparte died penniless
Great people aren't neccessarily the best savers, that is a skill of the normal
How many douchebag rich people died without leaving any impact on the world?
but you must realise, you are a minority. the rest of the people here that work 9-5, don't fall under your definition of 9-5. they fall under jason's and my definition of 9-5. Jobs with little to no hope of exceeding 100k a year.
One thing, I really sympathize with 9-5'ers in SOME ways, because when you run your own business you get good at recognizing other ways to make money. A lot of the more-successful people I know have multiple income streams so if one completely vanishes their lives are still rockin'.
When you work a 9-5 job you have a skill set and you try and negotiate a job for yourself. When you're old and people no longer believe you can learn new tricks, you are fucked and nobody will hire you.
Wal-mart greeter?
Fuck the world is a very cruel place. I get depressed when I think about all of the suffering that goes on.
When working on art I'd hope my neighbor would support me and not talk so much shit or be so fucking rude. It's not like I'm partying, we're working here! It would be different if this were all the time or something, but I rarely make any noise beyond 11. Once a month tops! She's on a power trip.
For example, I can't save a fucking dime of money because the moment I have spare cash I blow it on shit that interests me: art, girls, cars, socializing and experiences. My imagination is so vast I could never have enough money to do all of the things I imagine doing.
Right now I'm uploading porn, watching My Ghost Story: Caught on tape, surfing RS, checking The Corral for cheap 5.0 parts, cleaning my place, doing chin ups and push ups, researching lighting options for the photo studio I'm opening and writing down notes for what's going on with the characters in my 2nd novel as those ideas pop into my head. Totally controlled chaos. It is impossible to save money when your mind has so much going on inside of it.
I know a guy who has so much money and yet he lives the most vanilla life imaginable. I'm fascinated to know how he can be so restrained with his lifestyle when he has so much in the way of resources to make anything he imagines come true. It is unfathomable to me that someone could have that much money and do so little with it. I'm not dissing him, I just don't understand it at all.
if you consider bill gates and warren buffet, as 9-5er's, YOU are clearly the one who is out of touch with reality.
they are 9-5's because they CHOOSE to be. they could VERY easily be whatever time they wanna be.
the whole thread is about CHOICE. OPTIONS.
you can't phone up your boss and call off the next week. or change a meeting to suit your schedule in some super weird off hour time.
but guess what, gates and buffet can. in fact they can completely stop working. the world can be starving and they wouldn't HAVE to help out at all and live their luxurious lives (although im sure they would help). but you on the other hand... can you do those things? can you call any shots that aren't totally out of the social norm?
can you just decide to take 3 months off? half a year? a year or more? no.
what if you found a hobby you really loved. could you just QUIT your job and do that for the rest of your life? RIGHT NOW. NO.
I don't know how much you make, but trust me. our definition of 9-5 is not bill gates. nor warren buffet (you can say any financial trader is 9-5, cuz markets are open during that time, in that case, i am 9-5 too, or i should say, 6-1 cuz we live in the west coast).
dude, i'll throw it out there and guess that you make well above 150k a year. even if you make 250-300k+ a year, well, good for you. really, cuz that is an achievement.
but you must realise, you are a minority. the rest of the people here that work 9-5, don't fall under your definition of 9-5. they fall under jason's and my definition of 9-5. Jobs with little to no hope of exceeding 100k a year.
if you make far more than that in a 9-5 job, you are way above the 1%, and you're actually representing our side of the argument.
I hope you know that.
corporate moguls and other CEO or high technical skill types that make well over 100k a year, are NOT 9-5ers. they already have WAY more choice than the people we're talking about.
perhaps we should change the term 9-5 to: careers that you want to get out of, because you're near or at the cap, and you cant support a whole family all by yourself. you rely on your spouse who also works a similar income job. or even worse, you can barely support yourself, and with the way things are going, you wont have enough money to ever retire. ever.
that is OUR definition of 9-5.
i can't believe you used billionaires as examples of 9-5.
and by the way, who cares what the originally thread is about. we changed it.
LOLWUT?
So you are just going to change the definition of a 9-5 job to working at mcdonalds because it suits your argument better?
Bill gates and Warren Buffet were not always rich, they started out working 9-5 jobs, sure maybe they worked more than 8 hours a day fairly often, as do I, but I am still working a 9-5 job. It is still a blue collar or white collar job.
To be clear when this discussion started there was two possible sides, the side of sleeping during the day and smashing drums at night (or variation thereof), or the side of waking up in the AM and living your life in real day-light. Somewhere along the way you completely degraded the daylight option into working as a cashier at safeway.
Somewhere along the way you completely degraded the daylight option into working as a cashier at safeway.
The average income in Metro Vancouver in 2009, was only $41,176, according to Canada Revenue Agency statistics. In Vancouver proper, we are getting by on $43,911. However, Richmond residents are barely scraping by at $33,350 a year — the lowest average income in the region, followed by Burnaby, with an average of $34,961.
Living in Vancouver on 40k a year is practically slavery
i can rule out that you're not a well travelled person (and i don't just mean vacations and sight seeing. i mean actually living in other non western cities for months or years and absorbing the culture). and i can rule out that you're most probably not a medical doctor, or have any education related to evolution of human beings.
You used a weird double negative then a non-double negative there, so I don't know what your intention was.
But I will help you out: I work in the industrial construction industry (not hard to figure out if you look at my past posts). I have worked all over Canada in the last 2 years. I also worked in Oman (Oil and Gas) and Mongolia (mining).
You used a weird double negative then a non-double negative there, so I don't know what your intention was.
But I will help you out: I work in the industrial construction industry (not hard to figure out if you look at my past posts). I have worked all over Canada in the last 2 years. I also worked in Oman (Oil and Gas) and Mongolia (mining).
You must make baller cash. I met a dude recently who is in upper management in oil and gas and flies to Fort Mac and a bunch of other places in Alberta to train and hire contractors and shit. Buddy makes so much money but loathes to be stuck in camp with people. Claims ironworkers and pipe fitters behave worse than children and 99% of his duties are basically babysitting hurt feelings and inter-personal problems. Apparently people urinate on other people's gear all the time as a form of revenge.
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) to divulge my income or financial situation to any one person. Let alone to say it in a public forum on the internet.