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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
I can't believe how many people out there are against vaccinations under the pretense that the Government is secretly poisioning them, or that they don't work, or that it causes autism, or any number of other kooky half-baked bullshit reasons.
Nothing pisses me off more. Holy fuck people are so fucking retarded. Measels and other shit diseases are making comebacks because fucking morons read something on the internet and took it as gospel. That cunt Jenny McCarthy is probably responsible for the deaths of children due to spouting off complete bullshit that idiots eat up because she's a celebrity bitch.
The worst part is that two people I know just said "Kevin Trudeau shows facts on his website of why vaccines don't work!"
One google search:
Kevin Mark Trudeau is a convicted American fraud artist, author, radio personality, infomercial host, and salesman who promotes various unsubstantiated health, diet and financial "remedies"
Yet so many people choose to believe this guy over doctors who have gone to school for over a decade to provide medical care for people?
Seriously, we all need to call people out for being FUCKING RETARDS more often. Of course the people talking about this were single moms, people who lived at home with no jobs, or 9-5 retail workers.
You need to not worry , if you are vaccinated, why are u so scared? You are protected, chill out. Am i right? Vaccines protect you.
But, if you care to read the facts and science from the right source instead of talking shit about peoples choice, you can start here ----Vaccination | Suzanne Humphries, MD
My point, no one is right or wrong, just make your informed choice. Do not to do things because its the social norm or peer pressure.
I am not even talking about the side effects at all( frankly, i dont care, tghe occurance is very low). I am talking about statistics, and about the immune response of a human being. If you are slightly educated on how the immune system work, we would not be here having debates. If you want to ignore them, fine. Dont be so judgemental.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge
So because some mothers are not disciplined to get tested, everyone should risk their kids to get autism... great point.
Also lets say there is risk in the playground... there is no reason to risk the neurodevelopmental of ones child when its just a new born or before it could even walk by it self to reach a playground.
If you have any experience raising kids, you will realize that both infant and parents interact with many people, from the visiting nurses to friends and relatives, their babies and kids, babysitters, nannies.
The autism and vaccine myth has been debunked many times over, but then, some people prefer to rely on their faith - believing blindly without evidence.
Some people waste time in astrology, others in fortune tellers. Some believe Elvis is still alive too.
I don't even bother arguing with these people. We should just have them sign a waiver form that waives them the right to free medical treatment for these preventable diseases.
Since they're so skeptical of medical treatment, let them go without it and die. Problem solved. While we're at it, add a non-vaccinated fee to their MSP for putting others at risk.
The above study found everyone who was sick were all vaccine updated since birth! How do you explain that? Someone sold them fake vaccines? Or could it be that their immune system failed to respond to the REAL SHIT or an altered form of virus?
I don't need to argue, I provided you articles with references of evidence which has found how vaccination is ineffective, and I wanted you to know how our immune system on its own with good nutrition and life style can do wonders.
And yet, You told me to read your article which is written without any references to studies except for stats from the CDC. That to me is like reading a sign " Best Chinese food in Las Vegas".....................
Like I said,
For those who were vaccinated to prevent disease, why are you so worried if an unvaccinated child sits next to you?
When we were all young, we were all vaccinated, I was shot 46 doses of vaccines on 16 different occasions before I turn 6 years old. Why? because we didn't have enough studies to conclude the effectiveness and our parents just did it because it was recommended/ Social Norm.
No, we are not debunking any myth about autism and other terrible paralysis from vaccines. We are debating on how the proper human immunity works
Anyways, I don't read articles that doesn't back up with much science, nor do I read articles of Anti-vaccine activist crying about how their kid had brain damage or paralytic illnesses after vaccination. Shit happens everyday.
I propose that the MSP should pay your vaccinated child money if you ever contracted these diseases anytime, since vaccines are suppose to protect you.
Oh by the way, I was diagnosed with chicken pox at grade 2, and so did my sister. We WERE vaccinated. I am a parent now, and I need to research for my child's future too. It's not really right or wrong either way. People do get a choice.
Also I had to mention, a lot of these older pro-vaccine data are looking at undeveloped countries whose citizens were in a very very bad living environment with poor nutritional intakes and hygiene.
When I read she's into homeopathy, I rest my case.
Then I read about the bad reps of the organization, to me, when you google an organization, and the first half a dozen results are all complaints and ridicules, one should learn to be more skeptical.
So many scientists from different countries all over the world had debunked the vaccine autism myth.
Thanks for the tip, didn't read about Penn and Teller's debunking but here it is, short and precise:
...
But judging from the way you reason, obviously no one would expect you to change your mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by observer
If you have any experience raising kids, you will realize ....
You probably have kids...
Did you watch the short video I posted on the first page (post 12)? The initial news clip states that there has been wide spread concerns that Mercury based preservatives impair a childs neurological development... and it goes on to say that not one, but two new studies show the opposite where the Mercury actually helped with improved behavior and mental performance.
With this televised news, dont you think injecting your child with extra Mercury preservatives will give him/her the extra edge in life and school performance? Surely we'd all like honour roll children... next time your at the doctors, ask for these preservatives and what you want to do with them... see if they dont arrest you on the spot for being a mentally unfit parent.
Did you know that one group of international bankers funded both sides of the great world wars? After all these years the truth has come out yet try learning that in school or the universities of today and its nonexistent. "History is written by the victors."
Your sources are just like these falsified history books and lecturing professors.
They say 1/3 of Americans believe in Angels, apparently you do too sourcing the systems science.
I read the global article and its nice to see a doctor has so little faith in the human immune system. He brings up the point of suggesting its unethical to expose our children to preventable illnesses. So if generations of kids are brought up with vaccines for everything in an attempt to protect them from every preventable disease what do we end up with? I for one would argue the point of evolution. we would end up with weaker humans dependant upon the advancements of medicine just to live. Herd immunity at what cost? And just how immune is the herd with so much meddling? Again I believe some vaccinations are good and needed it comes down to what kind of viruses you are likely to be exposed to and what of those viruses are deadly or cause permanent damage but vaccinating out of fear for everything is just silly
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I read the global article and its nice to see a doctor has so little faith in the human immune system. He brings up the point of suggesting its unethical to expose our children to preventable illnesses. So if generations of kids are brought up with vaccines for everything in an attempt to protect them from every preventable disease what do we end up with? I for one would argue the point of evolution. we would end up with weaker humans dependant upon the advancements of medicine just to live. Herd immunity at what cost? And just how immune is the herd with so much meddling? Again I believe some vaccinations are good and needed it comes down to what kind of viruses you are likely to be exposed to and what of those viruses are deadly or cause permanent damage but vaccinating out of fear for everything is just silly
Meddling? Modern Medicine is all about meddling. People naturally die - it's just science. We die from diseases, from physical trauma, etc etc. Modern Medicine is all about prolonging life as much as possible.
Good example of "meddling" - my friend's wife just gave birth a few weeks ago. Her and my friend have been taking pre-natal classes; many of the pre-natal classes offered really preach the whole natural birth thing. I get it - people think that too many drugs might damage their baby. However, when it came time for the labour, there were complications - the baby wouldn't come out, and she ended up having a c-section, though she was resistant to all the drugs at first because of their "birth plan".
They talked to the doctor afterwards, and asked - what would've happened in the olden days, without modern medicine. The doctor simply said - you would've died.
If we left it up to Evolution - a lot more people will die.
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My wife and I are currently discussing this as she is preggo. Do we vaccinate all at once at birth? Stagger over a few months thus not to traumatize? Not at all, let nature do it's thing? I'm currently researching this so I can't offer any insight as I'm a n00b. She's all for major vaccinations, staggered over a few months; but she also believes that the kid should be exposed to everything nature provides. Go play in the dirt, hell, eat some dirt, get dirty. Let nature provide it's own vaccinations as a tolerance will be built up in the process. I agree with that train of thought as well.
There is a fine line between responsible choices and having blind faith that a Higher Power will protect you.
I read the global article and its nice to see a doctor has so little faith in the human immune system.
On the contrary: the core concept with vaccination is to stimulate and "train" natural immunity by introducing inert versions of otherwise dangerous diseases, BEFORE it has to deal with the more potent versions.
Take the author's statement about vaccinating for malaria before travelling to a malaria-prone area: people in that regions are less likely to have problems with it because there's been an overall immunity built up over time, but here where nobody ever sees it, there's no resistance at all. So essentially what's he's doing is telling his immune system, "Look, here's a little taste of what we're going to be running into soon... learn how to deal with it BEFORE we go."
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Originally Posted by Godzira
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Originally Posted by Brianrietta
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My wife and I are currently discussing this as she is preggo. Do we vaccinate all at once at birth? Stagger over a few months thus not to traumatize? Not at all, let nature do it's thing? I'm currently researching this so I can't offer any insight as I'm a n00b. She's all for major vaccinations, staggered over a few months; but she also believes that the kid should be exposed to everything nature provides. Go play in the dirt, hell, eat some dirt, get dirty. Let nature provide it's own vaccinations as a tolerance will be built up in the process. I agree with that train of thought as well.
There is a fine line between responsible choices and having blind faith that a Higher Power will protect you.
Just keep in mind that your child will only get your wife's immune system, and for the first 6 months of his/her life, all they will have to fight off infections is their innate immune system (which will not clear some infections/viruses), and whatever your wife has immunity to (certain strains of influenza perhaps, etc).
Only after the first 6 months will they be able to mount adaptive responses to new infecting pathogens/viruses/bacteria etc.
My advice?
First 6 months = disinfect everything regularly, and take extreme care in food prep. Carry purell around and if that annoying aunt/uncle/sister wants to hold the baby, force them to use the hand sanitizer before they hold your kid! That's much more important than vaccinations, IMO
And back on the topic of the thread:
most of the stuff there's vaccinations for will be cleared by the vast majority of healthy people, even the 'outbreaks' of influenza only killed something like 30 people in Canada -- and the majority of them were immunocompromised (old, had AIDs, etc). I see absolutely no harm in getting a vaccination, but if you don't you won't die
On the contrary: the core concept with vaccination is to stimulate and "train" natural immunity by introducing inert versions of otherwise dangerous diseases, BEFORE it has to deal with the more potent versions.
Take the author's statement about vaccinating for malaria before travelling to a malaria-prone area: people in that regions are less likely to have problems with it because there's been an overall immunity built up over time, but here where nobody ever sees it, there's no resistance at all. So essentially what's he's doing is telling his immune system, "Look, here's a little taste of what we're going to be running into soon... learn how to deal with it BEFORE we go."
They have a natural and much higher tolerance to the illnesses inherit to that region because evolution was allowed to take course. Now if you are not indigenous to the area understandably you dont have that tolerance and in the event you go there, get vaccinated for what will kill you there. Thats obvious. The problem I see is broad spectrum vaccination for diseases that arent an issue here. Canada has been polio free for over 20 years not many people know that but doctors have pushed that vaccine the whole time. Why? If you were going to India where the disease is still (or was) prevalent then get it. Again just an example of where we should be selective with our vaccinations.
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My wife and I are currently discussing this as she is preggo. Do we vaccinate all at once at birth? Stagger over a few months thus not to traumatize? Not at all, let nature do it's thing? I'm currently researching this so I can't offer any insight as I'm a n00b. She's all for major vaccinations, staggered over a few months; but she also believes that the kid should be exposed to everything nature provides. Go play in the dirt, hell, eat some dirt, get dirty. Let nature provide it's own vaccinations as a tolerance will be built up in the process. I agree with that train of thought as well.
There is a fine line between responsible choices and having blind faith that a Higher Power will protect you.
If your wife is breast feeding then the baby will get all the antibody IE immunities mommy has so there is no need for immediate vaccinations.
My wife and I chose a more holistic approach to the whole child birth and rearing thing. We didnt do it blindly tho we did countless hours of studying and research to educate ourselves best on it. In the end we went thru 48 hours of natural labor and I could go on about the nightmares of ignorant god complex doctors and nurses that wouldnt let my wife do what she was engineered to do and why it took so long but thats for another thread lol
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Oil change special $70 5 liters synthetic oil including OEM filter Fender rolling from $45 per fender Car Audio:
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Canada has been polio free for over 20 years not many people know that but doctors have pushed that vaccine the whole time. Why? If you were going to India where the disease is still (or was) prevalent then get it. Again just an example of where we should be selective with our vaccinations.
Just look at how unknowing people are about the Hep B virus alone... I would love to see a hidden camera record an ignorant acting mom asking a doctor some of these key questions and see the lies that they're programed to give.
I also find it hilarious that member Soundy probably typed the longest post here about vaccinations and ridiculed people saying other wise, yet he has no position on the Hep B vaccines and continues to post mainstream propaganda as truths.
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