School districts across B.C. planning deep cuts to balance budgets

[tiger_handheld]

Originally Posted by GLOW

i believe private schools have less benefits and don't pay very well. i have a friend that couldn't get a teaching job in public and taught at a few fancy private schools.

Majority of private schools pay the same as BCTF less the union dues. The only shit part about priv. schools is their benefit package is like driving a kia vs. Bentley(BCTF)

[4444]

Originally Posted by tiger_handheld

Majority of private schools pay the same as BCTF less the union dues. The only shit part about priv. schools is their benefit package is like driving a kia vs. Bentley(BCTF)

this is interesting, as I would think that private schools would have better levels of education... so if they're not paying more (whole package), does that tell you that either the teacher is only a relative part of the educational success of a student (maybe more comes from facilities, better built curriculum, etc.).

also it tells me that the market does not bear what the unionized teachers get - the market speaks the most true and loud, we should not pervert economics by ignoring what the market says...

[Hondaracer]

They do have a higher level..the top schools in the province consistently in both academics and athletics are all private. Funny how, as you said they are able to perform better without the union backing..

[4444]

well, i think hondaracer and i need to hoof over to the union negotiations - we've just solved the problem! get rid of the union and our kids will all be better off

[MG1]

Sorry, but there is no proof that teachers are better in the private sector. I believe it is the opposite. When parents can afford to send Johnny to a private school, you can bet Johnny is going to get as much support at home as well. The parents themselves are most likely well educated and connected. I would love to see a private school teacher go into a public school and deal with the kind of shit that's there. You don't have to "reach" the kids in a private school. If a kid becomes a problem, there are thousands of people on a waiting list to get in.


Don't you love it when a public school from the east side of Vancouver (Templeton of all places) kicks ass at a "Reach for the Top" competition? Beating out the likes of St. Georges. Doesn't happen often, but................

A good teacher is one who can raise the scores of the students. Challenge, inspire, and guide them.

Private school teachers continue to get paid, while the public school teachers carry on the fight. Weird how that works. Same as in any sector, I guess.

I'm spending way too much time in this thread, LOL. My kids are all done with school and my days as a PAC member at the schools are over and done with.

[Great68]

Originally Posted by MG1

Sorry, but there is no proof that teachers are better in the private sector. I believe it is the opposite. When parents can afford to send Johnny to a private school, you can bet Johnny is going to get as much support at home as well. The parents themselves are most likely well educated and connected. I would love to see a private school teacher go into a public school and deal with the kind of shit that's there. You don't have to "reach" the kids in a private school. If a kid becomes a problem, there are thousands of people on a waiting list to get in.


Don't you love it when a public school from the east side of Vancouver (Templeton of all places) kicks ass at a "Reach for the Top" competition? Beating out the likes of St. Georges. Doesn't happen often, but................

A good teacher is one who can raise the scores of the students. Challenge, inspire, and guide them.

Private school teachers continue to get paid, while the public school teachers carry on the fight. Weird how that works. Same as in any sector, I guess.

I'm spending way too much time in this thread, LOL. My kids are all done with school and my days as a PAC member at the schools are over and done with.

Private school teachers also don't have to deal with nearly the same number/type of special needs students that you find in public schools.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by 4444

also it tells me that the market does not bear what the unionized teachers get - the market speaks the most true and loud, we should not pervert economics by ignoring what the market says...

Of all people, you should know that the market price does not and often is not the fair trading price. The market price is merely that -- the market price.

[melloman]

Discussion around the dinner table last night was about teachers again..

I'm still adamant that they should not be getting such high raises/signing bonus' and benefits, but I do think the government needs to rethink the programs aspect.

We talked about the past, and how lots of kids with special needs didn't go to your typical public school. Autistic/mentally disabled kids weren't recommended, and had to go to special schools to suit their needs.. Since then many of these schools have closed down and the public school system has to pick up the slack.

Apparently the same thing has happened to ESL programs. Now I still remember in highschool, if you couldn't speak good English, you still had to take an ESL class before you were accepted into our normal English classes. Apparently that's going out too putting more burden on teachers.

English as Second Language Programs Swamped: Teachers' Group | The Tyee

Instead of this huge fucking cash grab for teachers and BCTF pockets, I could agree that these programs need to be brought back. So THE STUDENTS can benefit.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by melloman

Discussion around the dinner table last night was about teachers again..

I'm still adamant that they should not be getting such high raises/signing bonus' and benefits, but I do think the government needs to rethink the programs aspect.

We talked about the past, and how lots of kids with special needs didn't go to your typical public school. Autistic/mentally disabled kids weren't recommended, and had to go to special schools to suit their needs.. Since then many of these schools have closed down and the public school system has to pick up the slack.

Apparently the same thing has happened to ESL programs. Now I still remember in highschool, if you couldn't speak good English, you still had to take an ESL class before you were accepted into our normal English classes. Apparently that's going out too putting more burden on teachers.

English as Second Language Programs Swamped: Teachers' Group | The Tyee

Instead of this huge fucking cash grab for teachers and BCTF pockets, I could agree that these programs need to be brought back. So THE STUDENTS can benefit.

About the ESL part. More and more schools and taking more and more international students to milk them so the needs for ESL teachers and programs to help them is needed. Of coz the gov won't tell you about this or use the money they got from these students back into the school systems.

[4444]

Originally Posted by Traum

Of all people, you should know that the market price does not and often is not the fair trading price. The market price is merely that -- the market price.

quite the opposite, as a chartered business valuator, i know EXACTLY what fair market value is, and it is what arm's length parties would trade at when not under duress, or:

Fair Market Value – the price, expressed in terms of cash equivalents, at which property would change hands between a hypothetical willing and able buyer and a hypothetical willing and able seller, acting at arms length in an open and unrestricted market, when neither is under compulsion to buy or sell and when both have reasonable knowledge of the relevant facts. {NOTE: In Canada, the term “price” should be replaced with the term “highest price”}

[MG1]

Originally Posted by Great68

Private school teachers also don't have to deal with nearly the same number/type of special needs students that you find in public schools.

Absolutely. Private schools can say, "No," to anyone who doesn't fit in or meet their criteria. Public schools are there for everybody else. That's why Christy would never send her sweetie to a public school where he might get beat up for lunch money or be forced to sit next to a kid with Tourettes.

[RRxtar]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

They do have a higher level..the top schools in the province consistently in both academics and athletics are all private. Funny how, as you said they are able to perform better without the union backing..

Maybe the teachers are actually better since the private schools can hire the best teachers and fire the under performing teachers since those teachers aren't protected by a union. Free market employees will perform better than unionized employees in a high demand sector since their jobs are dependent on their performance, not union guaranteed.

[MG1]

^one would think, but my friend the principal says not.

In other news, as in listening to News 11:30, binding arbitration is being talked about. It might be close to being over.

[SpeedStars]

^° BCTF promises vote that could end strike if province agrees to binding arbitration - The Globe and Mail

This just reaffirms that the BCTF is in it for the money and benefits. See how they put their needs FIRST and let the needs of the children to the courts? The government is also considering paying parents $40/day that the student (under 12) is out of school...sounds like the government is trying to sway the parents onto their side as well

[Traum]

SpeedStars, I dunno how you can come to your conclusion of that the BCTF is primarily in it for the money and benefits. What's wrong with the BCTF leaving the class size and composition clauses to up the courts to decide, especially when the courts have already twice agreed with them?

The willingness to enter binding arbitration seems entirely reasonable with me, as that in itself is a huge gamble for both parties involved. Either side could stand to lose what they came out to bargain for, but at least it represents a willingness to end the labour dispute.

[quasi]

Originally Posted by SpeedStars

^° BCTF promises vote that could end strike if province agrees to binding arbitration - The Globe and Mail

The government is also considering paying parents $40/day that the student (under 12) is out of school...sounds like the government is trying to sway the parents onto their side as well

Considering? That is a done deal, website registration is up.

[MarkyMark]

40 bucks per kid a day adds up pretty quick how much is that going to cost per week

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by MG1

Absolutely. Private schools can say, "No," to anyone who doesn't fit in or meet their criteria. Public schools are there for everybody else. That's why Christy would never send her sweetie to a public school where he might get beat up for lunch money or be forced to sit next to a kid with Tourettes.

Successful parents sending kids to good teachers = successful kids

Why would anyone like Kristy or anyone with the resources put their child at a disadvantage?

Even if you're an excellent parent who supports your child, if they get stuck in a class where a teacher is "overwhelmed" by having a student who needs extra attention your child is already at a disadvantage

Also all the people going on about the teachers taking extra time for sports etc. I can appreciate the ones who really do put a tonne of time into but for both the sports I took part in during high school the teachers were only needed as "sponsors" to the team and when there was any sort of job action even being talked about they automatically backed out and we needed to use "supervisors" who were employed by the school as our sponsor. Our rugby coach was a former captain of team canada who basically did it because he knew most of us from playing for club teams. Our hockey coach was a parent and the sponsor was a councilor who only showed up to playoff games.

shit is no different than the hockey coach or coaches working for private organizations who get paid nearly nothing.

[MG1]

Spoke too soon. Binding arbitration looks like a no go the way Fassbender addressed the announcement by Iker earlier. Do not want third party deciding anything........ to his credit, the details of the proposal were not given to him as of the news conference. So on it is again.

[Traum]

^^ If the government is unwilling to enter into binding arbitration, it just goes to show who is interested in ending this labour dispute, and who just want to have things their way.

[MG1]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Successful parents sending kids to good teachers = successful kids

Why would anyone like Kristy or anyone with the resources put their child at a disadvantage?

Even if you're an excellent parent who supports your child, if they get stuck in a class where a teacher is "overwhelmed" by having a student who needs extra attention your child is already at a disadvantage

Here's the thing. Public schools offer a lot of diverse situations that private schools cannot offer. My children, who went to public school, had a great time and was exposed to all kinds of neat things. Not all private schools have rowing teams and a big budget. Anyway, there are pros and cons to both sides. French Immersion = a private school in a public school setting. To be in that programme, you had to have good study skills. Having said that, I think nowadays, even that programme is watered down,. But hey, that's par for the course.

[Gululu]

Love Democracy.

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by 4444

this is interesting, as I would think that private schools would have better levels of education...

That's true for other countries as I recall studies in Canada have shown public school students performing better than private school students...iirc it was regarding the sciences

[MG1]

Isn't it funny how the US and Canada are not at the top of the list when it comes to academic performance? At least we're good at hockey........ take that, you Asian countries, LOL.

[Gululu]

Originally Posted by MG1

Isn't it funny how the US and Canada are not at the top of the list when it comes to academic performance? At least we're good at hockey........ take that, you Asian countries, LOL.

That's hardly a surprise. Right now, I don't know what the mainstream stats show; however based on my readings from local Chinese news, 95% of Chinese parents in BC blame the BCTF union. The parents view teachers as greedy, lazy, and incompetent. I remember more recently (contrast to the past) there was a spike in international students coming over to study in BC as early as high school and even elementary. Now you can be sure that this whole fiasco will make Canada's education system look worse than it already is. Those parents forking out 20k (not including living expenses of course) to send their sons and daughters to a public school here in BC are not gonna be pleased. Right now they demand either a refund, or teachers resume work. In the future, less and less international students will choose to study in Canada. Is this what BCTF wants? By the way, I get a feeling that BCTF union is extremely toxic to the educational system. They complain being understaffed, yet new teachers can't get jobs. I feel bad for our students because they are the victims, in the end they do not receive the quality of education they deserve.