BC Car Dealerships photocopying your DL/violating privacy rules

[7seven]

Thought this was pretty interesting, I understand the need to build a customer/consumer database for marketing purposes, just be upfront about it. There are some corporations/businesses and agencies I don't mind having my information. I think most dealerships that I've been to has claimed that a photocopy of your DL is required for a test drive because ICBC requires them to, oddly the only ones that haven't for me were higher end dealerships which you would have figured would have wanted a copy of your DL when taking out vehicles over 6 figures out for a test spin.

B.C. car dealers may be violating drivers' privacy, claims whistleblower
Drivers' licences being scanned before test drives and data allegedly stored for marketing purposes

A whistleblower in the auto sales industry says car dealers may be violating customers' privacy rights when they take a test drive.

Kurtis Lemon says he quit his job as a salesman at Dueck GM’s Marine Drive location in Vancouver because he wasn't comfortable following a new procedure to scan customers’ licences.

Drivers' licence scanner
This machine is used to scan drivers' licences at Dueck GM car dealership on Marine Drive in Vancouver. (Kurtis Lemon)

The 27-year-old says car dealers are collecting customers’ information, including their addresses and birthdates under the guise of needing it for a test drive, when what they are really doing is building a database for marketing purposes.

"I think it’s wrong because the car dealerships are still running off of the 70s and 80s models," said Lemon, referring to what he perceives as outdated sales practices.

Lemon says Dueck GM scans drivers’ licence data and imports it directly into a new software program called DealerMine, a customer relationship management or CRM tool, that helps dealers track and market to customers.

Kurtis Lemon
Kurtis Lemon quit his job at Dueck GM because he says he was not comfortable with scanning customers’ licences. (CBC)

According to DealerMine's website, it can "track leads, enforce your sales process and measure the effectiveness of your team," and help dealers "market to customers that are ready to purchase and connect with them any way you choose."

"These new photo licence scanners are taking that info and they are directly taking the address and the height and age and all that info and putting it right into the CRM utility tool," said Lemon.

"So the customer thinks, 'I needed a copy for their test drive.' But really, I am capturing all this information so I can start marketing to the customer and make a sale."

Lemon says Dueck's new licence scanner also copies information from both sides of the licence or card, which in the case of B.C.'s combined Services Card, includes personal health numbers.

"As a sales person, later on I can go find out which drivers’ licences were scanned and then pick my customer and start adding personal information."

A guide for businesses issued by the privacy commissioners of Canada, Alberta and British Columbia says that most retailers can satisfy their needs by checking the customer has a valid licence but not recording it, stating that "photocopying or scanning the licence generally goes too far."

‘By law, we have to scan it.’

CBC used hidden cameras to test several dealerships, including all three Dueck locations in the Lower Mainland.

At Lemon's former workplace on Marine Drive we asked to test drive a 2014 Buick Encore.

The salesman asked for a driver's licence, saying it was "just to...ah...photocopy and get a...gonna get a demo plate...”

He went to the reception desk, where there is no photocopier, only a small scanner. He returned just five seconds later and we could not see if the licence was scanned or not.

At Dueck's Richmond location, a CBC producer's licence was scanned and her photo and personal data were immediately uploaded to DealerMine software, which indicated the scan was 100 per cent complete.

Drivers' licence scan complete
At Dueck GM's Richmond location, a CBC producer's personal data was uploaded to DealerMine software. (CBC)

"By law, we have to scan it, but after 30 days, we have to destroy the form," the salesman said, referring to a consent form which he mentioned but never produced.

Before a second test drive at Dueck in Richmond, another salesman photocopied a CBC journalist's licence and is recorded on hidden camera saying, "I'm supposed to use the scanner but... I photocopy, I'm old school."

He explained why they scan now, saying, "Basically, what it does is it uploads your info into our new kind of tracking software system. Not physically tracking, just to keep a database of customers."

At six different dealerships, salespeople told CBC journalists they needed a copy of a driver’s licence prior to a test drive for insurance purposes.

None explicitly asked for permission to keep personal information in a customer database.

The Insurance Corporation of British Columbia (ICBC) confirmed there is no insurance requirement for a dealership to photocopy or scan the driver’s licence of a customer test driving their vehicles.

‘By law, we have to scan it.’

CBC used hidden cameras to test several dealerships, including all three Dueck locations in the Lower Mainland.

At Lemon's former workplace on Marine Drive we asked to test drive a 2014 Buick Encore.

The salesman asked for a driver's licence, saying it was "just to...ah...photocopy and get a...gonna get a demo plate...”

He went to the reception desk, where there is no photocopier, only a small scanner. He returned just five seconds later and we could not see if the licence was scanned or not.

At Dueck's Richmond location, a CBC producer's licence was scanned and her photo and personal data were immediately uploaded to DealerMine software, which indicated the scan was 100 per cent complete.

Drivers' licence scan complete
At Dueck GM's Richmond location, a CBC producer's personal data was uploaded to DealerMine software. (CBC)

"By law, we have to scan it, but after 30 days, we have to destroy the form," the salesman said, referring to a consent form which he mentioned but never produced.

Before a second test drive at Dueck in Richmond, another salesman photocopied a CBC journalist's licence and is recorded on hidden camera saying, "I'm supposed to use the scanner but... I photocopy, I'm old school."

He explained why they scan now, saying, "Basically, what it does is it uploads your info into our new kind of tracking software system. Not physically tracking, just to keep a database of customers."

At six different dealerships, salespeople told CBC journalists they needed a copy of a driver’s licence prior to a test drive for insurance purposes.

None explicitly asked for permission to keep personal information in a customer database.

The Insurance Corporation of British Columbia (ICBC) confirmed there is no insurance requirement for a dealership to photocopy or scan the driver’s licence of a customer test driving their vehicles.

‘The law is very clear’

B.C.'s information and privacy commissioner, Elizabeth Denham, was frustrated to hear the results of CBC's investigation and said dealers are not allowed to store and use customer data without their consent.

"They have been subject to this law for 10 years," said Denham, referring to a 2005 ruling on the collection of customers' personal information.

The commissioner says in most cases, it is sufficient to simply show your driver’s licence information.

“If it's collected, the auto dealer has to get the individual’s consent and there has to be a fulsome explanation as to how they are using the person’s personal information...The law is very clear.”

B.C.'s information and privacy commissioner, Elizabeth Denham, says customers should only allow salespeople to view their driver's licence to verify it, not copy it. (CBC)

Denham says customers should only allow salespeople to view their driver's licence to verify it, not copy it.

The commissioner said car dealerships must adhere to the guide for businesses which Lemon claims was not acted upon when he brought it to his manager.

......................................

B.C. car dealers may be violating drivers' privacy, claims whistleblower - British Columbia - CBC News

[Jgresch]

Out of the 5 dealerships I've worked at, every one has photocopied a person's DL for a test drive. Not one has used the person's information for marketing purposes.

[lowside67]

The only contact information on your driver's license is your physical address. Do the authors of this article really think dealerships send out flyers? Give me a break. Dealers bug you over and over by phone, which has nothing to do with photocopying a DL.

This is the dumbest non-starter news story I have seen in awhile.

[meme405]

Originally Posted by Jgresch

Not one has used the person's information for marketing purposes.

That you know of...

[bcrdukes]

I had this experience with Mercedes-Benz when I went in for a test drive. They copied my information and low and behold, it was used for marketing purposes. They're clever though. They mask it as a "customer profile" when you're there. Little do you know, they're sending you offers and newsletters to your e-mail address.

Had the folks at MB told me up front, I would have been okay with this. I decided not to close the sale with them for this sole reason.

[Jgresch]

Originally Posted by meme405

That you know of...

Well I've always been the marketing person....so unless someone was secretly doing it.

And normally the photocopy would be put into a file for that customer, if the deal goes further, the paper work is added to the file, and eventually if the customer finances their vehicle, the copy of the drives license is needed for the application to the bank.

[Jgresch]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

I had this experience with Mercedes-Benz when I went in for a test drive. They copied my information and low and behold, it was used for marketing purposes. They're clever though. They mask it as a "customer profile" when you're there. Little do you know, they're sending you offers and newsletters to your e-mail address.

Had the folks at MB told me up front, I would have been okay with this. I decided not to close the sale with them for this sole reason.

Your DL has your e-mail address on it?

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

I had this experience with Mercedes-Benz when I went in for a test drive. They copied my information and low and behold, it was used for marketing purposes. They're clever though. They mask it as a "customer profile" when you're there. Little do you know, they're sending you offers and newsletters to your e-mail address.

Had the folks at MB told me up front, I would have been okay with this. I decided not to close the sale with them for this sole reason.

Let me get this straight...

You went in, test drove a car, were going to buy it, and then somehow in the time between the test drive and finishing the deal off (hours? a day? two?) they sent you so much email that you decided to not buy a car from them?

I am highly skeptical they even had data entered your email address and updated the mailing list that fast...

Mark

[bcrdukes]

No, but they asked for it before they let me test drive the car. They said it was in case they needed to get a hold of me or to send warranty information (in hopes I did buy the vehicle.) The moment I got home and checked my e-mail, there was already 3 e-mails from Mercedes. And yes, it was enough where I didn't want to buy the vehicle, based on principle.

Shame on me for giving it up, right?

[snails]

i also do the marketing for our dealership as well and thats not how we get our info. there is alot of applications that are signed online and in the dealership with the option to be on the no call list.

imagine you were going to lend some random person your $40,000 car on your plate and say to them, come back when you are done.. you are telling me you wouldnt want a copy of their drivers licence? if you continue with your purchase that information then goes to financing where they will need ALL of your banking infor and credit history anyways. its not like a drivers licence is going to tell them something all the other info cant.

if you dont want some one handling that info, dont test drive their cars. simple

if you dont want to be in their email list, tell them..

[bcrdukes]

Don't test drive their cars?

So should one just walk in, buy the car with cash and decide later the car isn't for them?

[snails]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

Don't test drive their cars?

So should one just walk in, buy the car with cash and decide later the car isn't for them?

exactly. if they are trusting u with their 20,30 or even $80,000 cars.. what makes you thing having a copy of the drivers licence is unfair?

[bcrdukes]

Okay. I'll keep that in mind next time I buy a car.

[bcrdukes]

Best advice. Ever.

[snails]

or, if you are really concerned about their marketing tactics you could just make an email address specifically for stuff like this. i have a 2nd email with probably about 30k of unread emails. dosnt effect my life at all

but yeah. people bitching about them scanning a drivers licence is like people bitching about getting scanned when going on a plane.. if its such an inconvenience drive across the country. they have these things there for their own security.

[dared3vil0]

It''s just the news fear mongering as usual. I've always had my drivers license scanned before test driving, then if i decide to take a few days to make a decision, or decide not to purchase the vehicle, i simply request i'm not contacted. Never have been so far...

[tofu1413]

Originally Posted by Jgresch

Out of the 5 dealerships I've worked at, every one has photocopied a person's DL for a test drive. Not one has used the person's information for marketing purposes.

+1 and i shred the copy in a week anyways... (unless if there is a deal done)

Originally Posted by Jgresch

Your DL has your e-mail address on it?

exactly. what marketing.

I usually just ask for a cell phone number. I dont flood my customers with calls. just a text now and then.

[Ikkaku]

I guess Marine Drive and Richmond got new toys, but before I quit @ Dueck Downtown, they still used your run of the mill ancient photocopy machine.

[Spoon]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

No, but they asked for it before they let me test drive the car. They said it was in case they needed to get a hold of me or to send warranty information (in hopes I did buy the vehicle.) The moment I got home and checked my e-mail, there was already 3 e-mails from Mercedes. And yes, it was enough where I didn't want to buy the vehicle, based on principle.

With Canada's Anti-Spam Laws kicking in July 1st. This dealership better smarten up or they're likely going to face class action lawsuits.

[Tone Loc]

I used to work with that Kurtis guy from the article at a local Vancouver retail store. Not too many 20-something year old Kurtis Lemons in Vancouver, I imagine... he's a bit of a sh*tstarter and a massive d-bag, where I worked at he ALWAYS "sharked" (stole sales) from other employees and downplayed it when questioned by management. Then he tries to raise a big stink when he doesn't always get what he wants from his bosses. Whether it be a raise, days off, or preferential treatment, if this guy doesn't get it, he threatens to "expose" some kind of business plan to the media. My guess is that the management at Dueck GM didn't give the big baby what he wanted, and he threatened to leak a "story" non-story to the press in the hopes to get his former workplace some bad publicity. I can guarantee that whatever reason he left GM, was not for "ethical reasons"... far from it. What a no-lifer and a joke.

The only data you get from a DL is a home address, and a simple "no junk mail, please" sign on the mailbox fixes that 99% of the time.

[ilvtofu]

Imagine Kurtis getting so upset about the way dealerships are run these days that he decides to start his own dealership, "Lemon Motors"

[Volvo-brickster]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

Don't test drive their cars?

So should one just walk in, buy the car with cash and decide later the car isn't for them?

doesn't subaru do that with STI's ?

[Qmx323]

What kinda douche spells Kurtis with a K anyways.

(No offense to any Kurtis' here)

[fliptuner]

I think his surname was a major hindrance to his profession.

[dared3vil0]

Originally Posted by Qmx323

What kinda douche spells Kurtis with a K anyways.

(No offense to any Kurtis' here)

I'm sorry, i completely forgot people get to choose their own names when they're born!

Doctor: "Congrats, it's a boy!"
Wife : "What should we name it?"
Husband: "Golly, let's ask him what he wants his name to be!"