I mean the whole Subaru lineup sells like gangbusters despite being problematic simply by being more "rugged" wagons and hatchbacks

The V60 CC and Allroads are super niche, even in New England you see them once a year compared to the 20 XC60 and 90 you see a week.

Low key, I don't think they're much better/exciting to drive than an X3.

I mean, they are in reality all the same shit. All have their own corporate flavour of 2.0t making ~250hp ~250tq. They have either ZFHP8 or some kind of Haldex system.

i miss sedan/car feel and was sort of interested in the v60xc because it retained the t5 and doesnt force premium fuel

but i still want to stay na 6cyl for as long as possible tho haha

V60 is a hard sell from a lease perspective because the monthly payment is higher than a XC60 due to poorer residuals while also offering less practicality. In V60CC's case with the T5, owners also got less power vs the T6 in the XC60. There is no practical reason to choose the V60/CC over a XC60. This leaves the V60 for those who are willing to pay more for the wagon body style.

When it comes time to sell, owners will find out that the market for V60s are still tiny, and NPC dealers don't know what to do with them because they have no market data as a basis to provide an offer.

Guilty as charged ... no clearance, no SUV, no mini-van club. Lowered please. Gimme that V60 baby! How do you not like this ??!!

https://www.vivaperformance.com/prod...-v60-front.jpg

Ahem

https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/s...75&format=webp

https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/ima...MG-5969_50.jpg

Depends what you're budget allows, there's a lot of rs6 wagons rolling around more than sedans

True, surprised to see so many Audi RS6's in the wild, that's like MB E63 AMG wagon territory pricing!

If > $100K, would you do a Porsche Turismo instead?

Even if I don't want to hit a trail the extra practicality of a SUV (more cargo and space) makes the wagon a hard sell as a family vehicle. I don't want the extra ride height of an SUV but I can't get the space without buying into that. I'm hoping something like the Crown Signia bridges the gap for me - wagon like body with SUV space.

^ But I thought the cargo space in a wagon is similar (if not more) compared to an SUV. Of course, there are classes of wagons and SUV. Eg. V60 vs. XC60, V90 vs. XC90. Not a huge difference at least. SUV is just higher in terms of ride. If you're a driving enthusiast, lower stance is always >> than higher stance.

In fact, on a wagon, you can put things on your roof rack 100x easier than on an SUV. Wagon all day and every day!

https://uploads.audi-mediacenter.com...jpg?1722601051

https://uploads.audi-mediacenter.com...jpg?1722601105

https://uploads.audi-mediacenter.com...jpg?1722601043

https://uploads.audi-mediacenter.com...jpg?1722601120

Too bad we don't get the poor man's RS6 on our shores.

are there any new longitudinal wagons that's na?

feels like all turbo and like 75k+

If the RS3 in hatch/sportback came to NA, please take my money now ... and my firstborn if you like!

Cargo space is close in most cases but some of it depends on use case - longer items work better in wagons, taller boxier items work better in SUVs. Grocery bags are better in wagons b/c the space is usually longer too.

The biggest diff I find is in the back seat - the taller shape of an SUV makes dealing with stuff like car seats or changing diapers WAY easier than in a wagon. My caveat though is that I'm thinking of an A4 or V60 which aren't optimised for packaging - if Honda did an Accord wagon I bet the back seat would be pretty damn good compared to a CR-V.

Nope, all are boosted. NA engines is almost dead in mainstream cars sadly.

Yea I don't find SUVs bigger, they are only taller. I'm a wagon guy. I find the jacked up suspension takes up a lot of room, wheel wells. And there's not much leg room left. Yes you probably have more head room, but those new stupid coupe SUVs and panoramic roof takes that all away. Also sloping SUV glass cuts into the trunk area. Also you have to lift shit to throw in vs just throw into wagon. Wagons usually have the big sedan trunk + roof trunk that extends all the way to the bumper, + folding seats. I find it easier to pile things high in wagon than SUV as the roof doesn't really slope back down and trunk glass doesn't slope much either. Also if you look at all those baby SUVs rx, cx5 etc their trunk area behind the back seats actually isn't that long, so there's not that much space vs wagons.

what's problematic about subaru? :confused:

Everything

Do you identify as lesbian:pokerface:

Moves to Alberta. Hates on everything.

https://images.dailykos.com/images/7...png?1568401473

Soon he'll be yelling at trannys / vegans and environmentalists. AB life yo

There's a shit tonne of Subarus in Calgary... for obvious reasons I suppose

My gf knows a girl here who said her bf had a Subie shop and my gf was like "Oh maybe you can be friends with him!" and I was like "Ewww" and she said "Why eww?" and I said "Because Subaru"... but when she checked in it appeared they had broken up and she said she wondered why and I said "Because Subaru?"

Probably right ;)

Update your location pls

Moves to Calgary buys baby blue Miata :fulloffuck::troll:

That's the best place to buy one, less competition.

What does the demographic research show?

General North American who can afford E63/RS6/M5 wagon...
- earning 3-400k+
- are going to live in cities
- if they own a car, they have it for outdoorsy adventures
- the 'i can afford a leisure car' image is socially critical
- don't move stuff because they'll just get shit delivered/don't have time to be in traffic.

General North American who buys wagon...

- commuters for the ultra-rich (MB wagon buyers have highest net worth)
- late 30s single or childless male car enthusiast homeowners in city adjacent suburbs who need a balance of comfort/dynamics/practicality to move things themselves but also don't go hiking and don't really go out - 1 car garage.

I think I've maybe seen 1 Audi/Mercedes wagon in my neighborhood, but I've seen maybe 10 911s with roof racks on em.

Where is the market today?

Europe yesterday
Motoring press loves wagons because they're predominantly British or German where they need to move stuff to their family home in the middle of nowhere village + have hella curvy and narrow backroads.

Europe today:
https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/Oo...on-wagons.webp

Predictions:
- Volvo keeps making wagons but drop to 1 model, VW/MB wagon lineup decreases (financials are fucked), BMW will increase lineup.
- MB, however, releases an AMG wagon ~2027 as a 'sorry' for the 4-cyl C63 .... whenever they figure out how to make an efficient EV motor.

- I think we will see wagon-ish things come back because they have better aero profile & highway EV range (Ioniq 5, EV6)
- More Euro brands will launch SUV looking wagons.

- North America receives only performance OR offroad variants of wagon, no 'normal' Euro wagon.
- North America will receive more coupe SUVs