Thanks for the added context - it lines up with my view given my personal experience and what's offered in the market today. Volvo and Mercedes tried their hand in the entry-luxury wagon space with the V60 and C-wagon but neither were successful.

I gotta give MB Canada credit for testing our wagon market at multiple price points with the C300/C43/E53 wagons alongside the standard E400/63s - IIRC we're the test market for NA and none of those test models passed their benchmark for a broader release this generation.

Looks like it'll be lifted wagons for us in the sub-100k space for us moving forward.

based on my haircut, maybe :pokerface:

low key I still think it's super cool to see wagons around - the C43 especially is a fav.

forgot to include "single" in the persona for the late 30s car enthusiasts who buy wagons.

The married ones have a SUV for the wife and drive a 911 or M4 with baby seats in the back.

MSFT parking lot had M4, Camaro ZL1, and a 911 (rear facing baby seat on the passenger side!)

https://i.imgur.com/gIfB3cb.jpeg

That's a on the dot description of my family.

M3 and hopefully 911 in the next few years.

X5 for the wife, and probably just gonna keep getting X5s for the forseeable future.

Low key product planners wanna build cool shit, hands are just tied by general economy and the automaker's own financial situation

If some growth driver gives young people in their mid 20s a ton of income like the early 2000s again, the affordable sports car will return

The outliers are Mazda, kinda VW, and FCA who mostly ignore what the product planners say and build whatever tf they want

Real station wagons, and not jacked up ones like the Outback, are almost the perfect form factor for those in suburban/urban environments. They fit into most parking spots and garages with ease and they handle almost anything from Ikea.

We're a regular income household and I convinced my wife to have our MK7 wagon as the family hauler. It's a great car, but let's face it - no one bought it new compared to all of the CUVs such as the CX5, Honda CRV, etc. VW even brought manual Alltrack wagons to North America for an entire model cycle and no one bought them. It's a shame because they will only continue to go up in value as their lore about the "last AWD manual wagon" made for North America will only grow.

Once my wife moves up in the world and eventually settles on some sort of SUV, I'll want to hang onto the MK7 Sportwagen.

The average North America parent is also overweight which is why CUVs seem to be easier on the back and on the body. We had a MK6 wagon for a while when the kids were babies and I had no problems putting them into car seats.

I saw an Accord Crosstour yesterday on the highway here and it made me think I haven’t thought about that car in ages lol… it’s not quite as ugly as I remember thinking it was when it came out.

Do those have the same tranny issues so many of the other 3.5 Honda cars do? Or are they better because of the 4wd aspect?

I don't buy it. The space argument is a lie as the footprint of a wagon isn't smaller. It'll almost always be exactly the same for the same class of SUV vs wagon. Unless your parking situation is height constrained with HVAC ducts over top preventing you from opening the trunk, there's no space benefit to a wagon.

The real benefit of a SUV so far, after arguing years against one and failing for the happy wife happy life argument.

- Height - you sit higher and not having to bend down to get your kids in and out of the car, and strapping them in. Very specific use case, but if I am sore after an especially intense gym session, getting in to the SUV is a lot easier than getting into my M3.
- Height - Most SUVs do have an inch or two of extra ground clearance. The M3 is fine in the snow, until I get high centered. That extra inch would be the different between getting stuck and getting out. Before you say anything I do have snow tires on the M3, but the X3 did not.
- Height - Unless you are driving a BOF SUV like an old Pathfinder or 4runner, the extra trunk height means fitting things you may not necessarily have business fitting.

The old arguments of driving dynamics still stand, but the gap has been minimized. Around town, the X3 honestly did not behave any worse than a regular 330i. You are going to be going WAY too fast for the minuscule difference to apply. Even back when I drove a Highlander, it can do a lot of dumb shit around town and it won't flip.

No I don't have a hard time putting the kids in the M3 which is the same as a regular 3 series and the same as a F31 wagon. It's not a fitness issue, but rather ease of use.

Now for the kids, the wagon makes more sense as they don't have as much height to climb into. Now that we have an X5, I can see my son having to actually climb up the car vs the M3 or X3.

The running cost of a SUV is going to be marginally higher than a wagon, with small decrease in fuel economy and bigger/more expensive tire setups. Also manufacturers have caught on and typically charge a bit more for a SUV vs the equivalent wagon/sedan.

On the flip side the purchase argument. After driving a G20 330 and a G01 X3 extensively. BMW put a lot more thought and resources into making the G01 and I'd argue it's a much better designed vehicle compared to the equivalent 3 series.

+1 Ugly truth is that people perceive sitting higher as safer.

I guess Audi RS6s for everyone on RevScene. Audi is gonna have a great year assuming they don’t shut down their factories. :fuckthatshit:

Most cars have an inch more ground clearance than an M3 as well lol.

The big negative I see to most modern SUVs/CUVs is the rear hatch design is sloped to look more sporty or something, but you lose a ton of practicality and storage space with that. You want a proper vertical rear hatch like a wagon.

This is better than your SUV in the city,

https://d1hv7ee95zft1i.cloudfront.ne...e1b22b22b.webp

https://www.toyota-boshoku.com/globa...e2ae0f6a2d.PNG

Too bad we're too uncultured for it :okay:

I like Alphards, but I think they are designed for high density cities and not wide open highways in North America.

I forget exactly who it was, but maybe Asian_XL? His father's Alphard was in an accident and it flipped over completely. And this was in Hong Kong. . Badhobz nearly died just thinking of that. :D

Edit: LOL what? (refer to my sig as well)

That's an affliction that occurs on most wagons as well. I'd have to say BMW has done a great job keeping their SUVs useful. Comparing the Cayenne and X5, the X5 is hands down the much more utilitarian vehicle. But you head down market to a Rav4 or CRV, those are even better.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/t-Used...0/NONE/DEFAULT

Low key they sold like 10 of these

https://hips.hearstapps.com/autoweek...blic/v-2_3.jpg

The real ones yeah, those hideous "coupe SUVs" they offer make zero sense to me. Lets have the limited practicality of a sedan with the numbed driving dynamics of an SUV. It's like the anti-wagon lol.

Speaking of ground clearance, a lot of parking lots in the GTA have speed bumps which require you to have an SUV to clear. Not even a Subaru Forester can clear them. Got a Macan? Turn that shit around. :fuckthatshit:

I like suvs. I especially like my wife’s insanely comfortable and quiet RX. Although it’s still the worst Lexus in my fleet, it’s miles better than anything else out there for the model year and price.

Laminated double pane glass, silky smooth v6, 8 speed automatic that feels like a CVT, this bitch got it all. Only negative was it’s built in Canada by retarded Canadians so I had to address some “quality” issues myself. Squeaks and rattles ! I’m an expert on fixing these

shrugs

I quite enjoy my wagon.

https://scontent.fcxh3-1.fna.fbcdn.n...dg&oe=66F80482

Clean 91 AWD Previa (ad says rwd, but there is a 4WD badge)

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/bnc...787480309.html

difference between a suv/wagon is maybe 1-2" height difference

for the average use it's not make or break

'commanding view' is also how we got into the big/tall grille arms race where we now require 360 cam to see our own dicks/pussies and when everyone has it it's as useful as a HOV lane when you give every 2nd or 3rd new car with OK sticker

egress/ingress as you get older and parking stalls shrink, i'm convinced the bigger difference will be if minivan sliding doors become a thing up front...retirees been driving big body buicks and caddies for decades and it wasn't an issue

One appeared at the Richmond CJDR dealer last year(?) for $38k with I think 70k on the odometer. I saw one listed at JLR Victora a few years before that (could've been the same car).

Going back on topic and on SUVs, this X3M seems like a good deal: 2020 BMW x3 m awd/ no accident/ enhanced pkg/ service record - CA$59,995

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...99057254075147
https://scontent.fyvr4-1.fna.fbcdn.n...kg&oe=66F831C7

My friend just leased an X3M Comp for $1300 cad taxes in - the loyalty interest rate is 0.01% + some dealer discount

That's Canada? I know BMW has been pushing 2 year leases pretty aggressively this cycle.