Craigslist good buys

[radeonboy]

This E53 is also $60k for those waxing poetic on wagons.

2019 Mercedes-Benz e53 awd wagon clean title - CA$59,900

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...4454904389229/

[Badhobz]

thats amazing. thats a better deal than stupid manual integra A spec which is the same amount of money per month as that X3M for essentially a lousy civic SI

[AstulzerRZD]

Yes, Auto West BMW

[bcrdukes]

I really enjoyed my E91 wagon for the short while I owned it.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

thats amazing. thats a better deal than stupid manual integra A spec which is the same amount of money per month as that X3M for essentially a lousy civic SI

Japanese government won't let Honda fail but the success of their upcoming EV platform will tell us whether that brand will 'survive' or 'thrive' in the next 10 years.

If the EV platform flops, they will exit Europe, cut Acura, cut Ridgeline, maybe cut Accord and cut the Si.

We will probably still see a hybrid/electrified Type R in 5 years but it might suck.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

I really enjoyed my E91 wagon for the short while I owned it.

That's a great one but imo the current breed of base model E class, V90, allroad etc don't drive any better than an X3 M40i.

Keep in mind the base model E wagon is the car Bostonians buy for their nanny on cape cod

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Japanese government won't let Honda fail but the success of their upcoming EV platform will tell us whether that brand will 'survive' or 'thrive' in the next 10 years.

If the EV platform flops, they will exit Europe, cut Acura, cut Ridgeline, maybe cut Accord and cut the Si.

We will probably still see a hybrid/electrified Type R in 5 years but it might suck.

Acura is only treading water slightly better than Infiniti is in that their SUVs are actually better, but at the same time I don't see Honda cutting Acura, at least not before Nissan would cut Infiniti.

The Acura product line is kind of meh....
The MDX is good, and good value but I'm still buying a X5 every time unless I really need the 3rd row.
The RDX is getting old, it's been around for 5 years already and into it's 6th. If you want a compact class, sporty luxury SUV that's Japanese, it's the only game in town, but that's a small niche.
The TLX is meh across most reviews
The Integra is also meh imo.

The Type S badge has been watered down significantly with the introduction of the slightly warm TLX-S and MDX-S

[JDMDreams]

I thought Honda use that GM platform, it's not even theirs that prologue is some GM equinox platform. That's why the wheelbase looks oddly long.

[AstulzerRZD]

Advantages in cost structure, manufacturing, supply chain, body engineering, HVAC in ICE cars don't mean anything in the EV world.

Honda are building their own bespoke platform; their ICE platforms had some real bangers (B/K/J series).
Can they pull off the same manufacturing/engineering advantage with EV platform? we will see.


Now that Japanese gov are mandating these automakers work together to save their domestic supply chain, I think we will see some progress. If they can do Ultium better than GM (which isn't that hard TBH), will be good.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

Acura is only treading water slightly better than Infiniti is in that their SUVs are actually better, but at the same time I don't see Honda cutting Acura, at least not before Nissan would cut Infiniti.

The Type S badge has been watered down significantly with the introduction of the slightly warm TLX-S and MDX-S

Acura brand is in hot water financially because they're not only living in yesterday's world while simultaneously underinvesting in EV and core product (Odyssey).
Mazda is the same way with CX70/90.

These luxury ICE platforms that are supposed to be higher margin but end up deeply discounted and cheaper than the Honda product.
IMO they only still have Acura because shutting down the brand/cutting dealer relationships would cost too much.

General development cost:
- Powertrain (20%)
- Vehicle R&D (40%)
- Tooling (35%): Honda is an expert at sharing tooling/assembly lines.

1) TLX cost a ton to produce, did not sell.
Cost: ~60-70% of a new car, shared 2.0T and commonalities with Accord platform
Missed sales target by -50%

2) Integra
Cost: although is platform / powertrain / interior share, still cost 30% to sell for cheaper than top trim Civic.
Missed sales target by -60%

3) Type-S trim means new brakes, suspension, steering, powertrain installation systems + a whole new ICE program;
Cost: ~25% of a whole program for a niche performance trim?

4) Last-gen Sport Hybrid system sold in a few MDX's; again - powertrain, mounting system, underbody, etc changes;
Cost: ~40% of a whole new car program.

5) RDX
Missed sales target by 30%

Predictions:

1) MDX will get hybrid and plugin hybrid variants by 2026.

2) More GM collaboration.

3) Integra and TLX ICE get killed at end of model run, no updates or refreshes.

4) Honda's bespoke EV platform launches in Acura lineup first, ~2025/6.

[Badhobz]

Acura has no brand cachet. Nobody thinks driving an acura is any more luxurious than a run of the mill honda. They had SOME brand equity back in the 90's and early 2000's with the vigor, legend, nsx, etc but thats all dead.

The only luxury brand from japan that seemed to comparable to ze german bmw/mercedes/audi circle is lexus. Not sure what they did to elevate themselves more than their infiniti/acura counterparts, but it seemed to have worked.

you know how i know? ive met strippers named mercedes, and lexus. None named acura of infinite vagina

[JDMDreams]

Cuz Honda pulled a Nissan, they never improved their 300hp engines and called it good enough. There was never a car to follow up rsx/csx with a sporty affordable engine. So they just became mediocre at best. There was no selling point, not really cheap enough, or hot enough. Genesis kinda ate their cake, even though I didn't see many Genesis cars but at least you can tell they are trying to put out competitive products unlike Acura.

[AstulzerRZD]

Honda focused on volume product which I think is fine - they don’t have the backing of a giant industrial conglomerate to pull a Genesis.

Their cost structure is better because their cars are tooled to share the same assembly line.

Their mistake was having awful tech/interiors + spending money on Acura 5-10 years too late.

It’s general Japanese HQ and supplier politics - people bring their own infotainment so they’ve never seen it as a priority.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Acura brand is in hot water financially because they're not only living in yesterday's world while simultaneously underinvesting in EV and core product (Odyssey).
Mazda is the same way with CX70/90.

These luxury ICE platforms that are supposed to be higher margin but end up deeply discounted and cheaper than the Honda product.
IMO they only still have Acura because shutting down the brand/cutting dealer relationships would cost too much.

General development cost:
- Powertrain (20%)
- Vehicle R&D (40%)
- Tooling (35%): Honda is an expert at sharing tooling/assembly lines.

1) TLX cost a ton to produce, did not sell.
Cost: ~60-70% of a new car, shared 2.0T and commonalities with Accord platform
Missed sales target by -50%

2) Integra
Cost: although is platform / powertrain / interior share, still cost 30% to sell for cheaper than top trim Civic.
Missed sales target by -60%

3) Type-S trim means new brakes, suspension, steering, powertrain installation systems + a whole new ICE program;
Cost: ~25% of a whole program for a niche performance trim?

4) Last-gen Sport Hybrid system sold in a few MDX's; again - powertrain, mounting system, underbody, etc changes;
Cost: ~40% of a whole new car program.

5) RDX
Missed sales target by 30%

Predictions:

1) MDX will get hybrid and plugin hybrid variants by 2026.

2) More GM collaboration.

3) Integra and TLX ICE get killed at end of model run, no updates or refreshes.

4) Honda's bespoke EV platform launches in Acura lineup first, ~2025/6.

I don't have concrete data like you do on targets with Acura, but they are doing poorly yoy on sales numbers. A thin product offering that's either old or not competitive, or both, only making sales on niche reasonings.

The hot TLX-S can't even keep up with the German warm products (M340, S5), and the MDX-S is only slightly warm in that the X5 40i trounces it in performance, nevermind the 50e and M60 variants. The dealers are playing dumb games with the Integra-S and no one wants a regular Integra.

Like you said, too expensive to kill it, but will eventually become the next Infiniti. The Honda/Acura ICE drivetrains are all quite weak with terrible fuel economy. I don't know why they only offered the MDX hybrid for such a short time, and didn't even advertise it. No one knew about it. At least their engines aren't leaking and blowing up like the VR30DET in the Infinitis.

The whole Mazda lineup are passion products as some one called the Crown. Odd enthusiast based choices and a sale towards driving enjoyment.

The CX70/90 seems to be doing alright now, I'm starting to see a lot of them on the road. They do have a ton of road presence unlike the blob that is the MDX. The pricing and positioning really works in the Mazda's favour on paper as you are getting a X5 lite, though I don't know what the profit margins and discounts look like. Mazda is HEAVILY overstocked in CX50 and the they are discounting them to move. Mazda is mostly only selling Mazda3 and CX30, at least in Vancouver they are.

The question for a lot of ppl looking at the CX90 PHEV is, do I want a brand new car with cheaper brand new financing, or do I want to pay the same price for a used X5 PHEV or GLE PHEV. They do fall into the odd space as the MDX where their "hot" model is only on par with the base X5/GLE, and their PHEV does come up a little short.

[JDMDreams]

I think Mazda is cheap to buy cheap to sell. Only reason why you buy Mazda is you're too poor for anything else. I think the only one that really holds the price is Miata due to it being a sports car. They don't really stack up against Honda or Toyota, maybe better credit score than Nissan Infiniti buyers.

[68style]

Mazda salesman in Richmond a few weeks back, for whatever their word is worth told me the CX-5 (built in Japan) is far and away their best seller still with CX-50 (USA built) in second place at least at that dealership.

Told me they're not even bringing in Miata's anymore had 1 in stock and it was automatic...

CX-50 Hybrid is the RAV-4 Hybrid drivetrain, that should sell pretty good as I believe Astulzer mentioned before.

[68style]

Originally Posted by radeonboy

This E53 is also $60k for those waxing poetic on wagons.

2019 Mercedes-Benz e53 awd wagon clean title - CA$59,900

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...4454904389229/

I've seen a couple of douchebags in C63 around my area in Calgary so far, both of them flooring it off lights and I don't know what exhaust system both of them had put on, but I didn't think it was possible for a V8 to sound that terrible... somehow they pulled it off... was expecting a musical symphony and threw up in my mouth a little instead.

[nismodrifter]

@68style which part of town are you living in? Former Calgarian here.

[roastpuff]

Originally Posted by radeonboy

This E53 is also $60k for those waxing poetic on wagons.

2019 Mercedes-Benz e53 awd wagon clean title - CA$59,900

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...4454904389229/

Oh baby that is sexy. If I crashed my A4 today and needed a replacement I'd be seriously considering this

Originally Posted by 68style

I've seen a couple of douchebags in C63 around my area in Calgary so far, both of them flooring it off lights and I don't know what exhaust system both of them had put on, but I didn't think it was possible for a V8 to sound that terrible... somehow they pulled it off... was expecting a musical symphony and threw up in my mouth a little instead.

This is an I6 instead of the V8, so not quite as loud and burbly. And probably the best value buy IMO because it's a really refined powertrain.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

I don't have concrete data like you do on targets with Acura, but they are doing poorly yoy on sales numbers. A thin product offering that's either old or not competitive, or both, only making sales on niche reasonings.

MY22 target was 65k for RDX/MDX, 35k for Integra/TLX.
Don't know what the Type-S target was, I'm going to guess 15-20k.

Originally Posted by EvoFire

I don't know why they only offered the MDX hybrid for such a short time, and didn't even advertise it. No one knew about it.

Probably used it to validate some new powertrain tech, wasn't meant to be mass production. Unit economics probably sucked.

Originally Posted by EvoFire

The whole Mazda lineup are passion products as some one called the Crown. Odd enthusiast based choices and a sale towards driving enjoyment.

Mazda will become GM's Saab - bought it to get existing turbo tech (Skyactiv in case of Mazda) and will use it to test/develop new tech (like a range extender BEV I've heard they're looking up for the 7 seater market).

Originally Posted by EvoFire

The CX70/90 seems to be doing alright now, I'm starting to see a lot of them on the road. They do have a ton of road presence unlike the blob that is the MDX. The pricing and positioning really works in the Mazda's favour on paper as you are getting a X5 lite, though I don't know what the profit margins and discounts look like.

IMO the loser is probably the MDX. CX90 were in rental lots from day 1 and have strong incentives.

Originally Posted by EvoFire

The question for a lot of ppl looking at the CX90 PHEV is, do I want a brand new car with cheaper brand new financing, or do I want to pay the same price for a used X5 PHEV or GLE PHEV.

Remember how I said Honda/Acura invested in new ICE and Acura 5-10 years too late? I really think the B58 X5 will be more reliable than MDX-S and CX90.

Honda also don't have a >200hp hybrid they can stick in the Acura product while the Mazda 6 cyl + 8 speed and PHEV calibrations are super janky.

Whatever either one does next will be less proven than X5 40 and 45/50e.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

AThey had SOME brand equity back in the 90's and early 2000's with the vigor, legend, nsx, etc but thats all dead.

They're dead for the same reason Buick / Sears are dead.
Mid-market luxury meant for mid-westerners has 0 value in the internet age where we consume influencer media.

I'm surprised Cadillac is doing ok - their cars/trucks have gotten a lot more expensive, sportier, and tech laden.
The coast doesn't buy Cadillacs and I don't think the mid-west buyers are interested in those qualities.

[AstulzerRZD]

https://docs.google.com/presentation...it#slide=id.p1

Interesting slide deck from GM's business case to put the manual back in CT5V-Blackwing.

Of those interested in learning to drive manual, Hispanic respondents had the strongest response (70%), followed by men (69%), earning above 75k (64%), and 18-34 (62%).

Respondents who already know how to drive stick were the complete opposite. Earning less than 75k, 35-55+ men, and college grads.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Remember how I said Honda/Acura invested in new ICE and Acura 5-10 years too late? I really think the B58 X5 will be more reliable than MDX-S and CX90.

Honda also don't have a >200hp hybrid they can stick in the Acura product while the Mazda 6 cyl + 8 speed and PHEV calibrations are super janky.

Whatever either one does next will be less proven than X5 40 and 45/50e.

It feels that when it comes to powertrains that the accountants are running Honda now. The rest of the product is still terrific but they sure are getting a lot of mileage out of the K and J engines (23 and 28 years respectively) when they would have normally replaced them about 15 years into their lifecycles.

Neither engine is particularly competitive now in terms of fuel economy or power - the K20C guzzles gas compared to other 2L turbos while the J isn't a leader in much.

Without a replacement for the K and J (like a great 2L turbo or a great 3L turbo) Honda/Acura are really stuck for powertrain choices. Especially true for Acura where they can't really differentiate (the J30C should be the base motor on the MDX, not the Type S motor).

Soichiro Honda would be rolling in his grave seeing the engines staying the same for so long.

[68style]

Originally Posted by nismodrifter

@68style which part of town are you living in? Former Calgarian here.

Hawkwood, I'm super close to Crowfoot like I an walk there in 5 minutes

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by supafamous

It feels that when it comes to powertrains that the accountants are running Honda now. The rest of the product is still terrific but they sure are getting a lot of mileage out of the K and J engines (23 and 28 years respectively) when they would have normally replaced them about 15 years into their lifecycles.

Neither engine is particularly competitive now in terms of fuel economy or power - the K20C guzzles gas compared to other 2L turbos while the J isn't a leader in much.

Without a replacement for the K and J (like a great 2L turbo or a great 3L turbo) Honda/Acura are really stuck for powertrain choices. Especially true for Acura where they can't really differentiate (the J30C should be the base motor on the MDX, not the Type S motor).

Soichiro Honda would be rolling in his grave seeing the engines staying the same for so long.

I think they should've invested in ICE engines far earlier.
They're fucked because it's now too late but their saving grace is their hybrid strategy.

Yes, the turbo 6 got the accounting treatment.
Product strategy said they needed the horsepower/torque numbers + features to sell at the Type S pricepoint.
Nobody said it actually needed to perform well so they didn't put a proper trans in.

For the turbo 4s, don't know too much about their development but I'd guess their engine management hardware/tuning strategy is conservative;
especially after having to deal with L15 head gasket warranty costs.
My bet is planning said the fuel economy increase won't sell more TLX/RDX/Accord 2.0T ... which I would agree with.

IMO they should've just done a turbo 4 + hybrid for 350-400hp.
Take what they learned from the NSX and actually use it lmao