The MDX is relatively new, but Acura lost the infotainment bet in the last decade, then the drivetrain bet. I had thought their Earth Dreams lineup was actually new? Despite sharing the same engine codes? But yeah they are not competitive.

The B58 is going to be hard to beat as it's been in production since 2017. The starting point tbf isn't that different. First run B58 made 335hp, subsequent models and updates now put it at 385hp, but realistically equates to over 400hp from everyone else. It's the new gen 2JZ.

The X5 PHEV drive system is probably the same system as the Cayenne which is probably the same system as the GLE 450 PHEV, integrated electric motor in the ZF8HP bellhousing. The difference is the battery setup and charging systems. In terms of drive system yeah it'll be more proven as it's spread across multiple models and way more units than any individual manufacturer can do, unless you are Toyota.

Mazda could have easily just adapted the ZF8 like everyone else but they deemed it to be not good enough (iirc they said it was too big or long or something) and they developed their own. Waste of R&D dollars imo that could have been used on refining the tuning of the car, Though who knows if not going with an off the shelf product means that their per unit cost is lower.

I think Mazda has the headstart compared to Acura in terms of drivetrain. They both own their own shit despite immense cost, both are under-delivering in performance, but Mazda at least has a PHEV, an EV, and ICE fuel economy on their side. Acura has got nothing except for the K20C in the Type R, and even then that's not hugely world beating when you consider the EA888 from VW/Audi and B48 from BMW.


Are the Earth Dreams K and J not new engines? And yes I agree, the base engine in the MDX should be the Type S motor. What is currently the Type S should be an A Spec, and they need a hotter big turbo variant that makes 450hp to be the Type S.

We need to keep in mind that the Honda buyer in the US is very different.

It's lower income, new immigrant, and very Dominican on the east coast - 200HP Accord and 300HP Pilot satisfy this audience.
They were never going to pay for 365hp Type S; those are for the trades guys who got papers and upgraded from a DC5/beater EK.

An i4 leases for 400, X3 for 500/mo, iX for 660 with loyalty rates.
You have to be very very conservative / diehard Honda to not just get one of these instead.

my RS career is now complete, sig'd by dukes :victory:

The K20C is quite a bit different than the K20A - some do say it's a clean sheet design but it retains the same bore and stroke which is a killer for fuel economy. Everyone else has gone long stroke for fuel economy. The K20C is basically designed for boost from the ground up so the block is significantly stronger than the K20A.

The J series Earth Dreams is just a warmed over J series with direct injection but nothing major really changed. The J30C (the turbo) is still pretty closely related to the original J which probably explains why it makes so little power - Honda couldn't stress the motor much more as it otherwise seems to make absolutely no sense to build a turbo V6 that only makes 355hp as your flagship motor.

chevy small block lived something like 50 years

did you know VQ nissan is also well over 30 years into production?

dont fix what aint broken; K was great as a millennium mill and continues to soldier on

also kudos for bringing forward a brand new v6 this decade without FI in the pilot

The Chevy small block has been through 5 generations since 1955 - it's not the same engine at all over the years.

Yeah and the world has passed it by. What was once a great motor is a has been compared to a B58. That's just Nissan running out of R&D money but Honda is an ENGINE company through and through - to see them cheap out on engine R&D is just kinda sad. For years Honda made the best 4 cylinders but that time has long passed (I'm not sure what the best 4 is anymore but it's not the K20C)

That's still a J35 but with DOHC heads on it - it barely gets a different designation, it's a J35Y8 and the previous version was a Y6. It was built strictly to meet emissions regulations that the SOHC version couldn't meet.

That makes sense especially when a good reason the K20C even exists is for the CTR and then it gets detuned/downsized for the Accord. The TLX/RDX/Accord probably all should have stuck to the J35 but they probably needed to amortize some of the R&D costs of the K20C.

I'm a bit puzzled by Honda's hybrid strategy - the current one works great for the Civic/Accord/CR-V so where's the big version of it for the Pilot/Odyssey etc? It's not like they haven't had it around for a long time so they know how it works and there's a market for it. Can't possibly be THAT hard to develop a 280hp version for the big cars. Add a rear motor and you've got yourself a 330hp version just like that.

That or, like you said, a turbo 4 + hybrid.

The small block has had at least two new clean sheet designs in the last 30 years. The popular LSx meme swap was a clean sheet all aluminum 90s design, whereas the current stuff are designated LTx designed in the last 10ish years. Before the LS I believe were the old iron block stuff.

The VQ should be mostly phased out, only some old cars are left that are due to replacement or the axe altogether.

They are all old engines that have some nostalgia factor, but doesn't hold a candle to the current modern mills. I'll have to say though, most modern mills have zero character, they are all built based on the best efficiency formula, long stroke, 0.5l per cylinder, small turbo design.

What happened to that Nissan Renault Benz motor that is in the a45, juke and q30? But I guess they just never sold many cars with that motor here.

Chevy small block is useless rn.
5.3 and 6.2 randomly locking up and blowing heads in 20-40k lm

is this loyalty rate a dealer thing or a bmw thing?

actually it got direct injection and is used in the 2020+ new pathfinder, the frontier new for last year or so and the armada just revealed last week :awwyeah:

BMW thing. 2?% rate reduction if you trade in a BMW or finish a lease of a car between 2015-2022? MY.

And the Frontier is now connected to a fairly reliable Mercedes 9 speed.

VQ is fine, Nissan buyers won't know the difference.

VC Turbo is blowing up so they probably won't use that much.

Prediction: Honda and Toyota will eventually release range extended BEVs or PHEV to replace existing hybrids.

Why?

- RWD CVT based hybrids (Lexus GS/LS/Crown) top out at 300hp.

- Geared RWD hybrids get 9-15L/100km, same as V6 - see MDX Sport Hybrid, Grand Cherokee, F150, Tundra, Land Cruiser, etc.

- 7 seater audience isn't very interested in EVs - Ford cancelled EV Explorer.

- Honda will never release a RWD platform because they must be able to share assembly line with FWD to reduce tooling cost.

- PHEV already requ

- Leaving us with FWD CVT based Hybrids, which get 5-8L/100km but top out at 220hp, 3500lbs towing.

Thus, we will either see...

1) A 250hp 4 cylinder, CVT based system on very top trims of Odyssey and Pilot (but not the Passport).

2) ~350-400hp Range extended EV for the Explorer / Pilot / Passport, no geared transmission.

Don't ask me how I know, but I've heard about a range extended EV for 7 seater market, 70k price point

M270/274 has timing chain and cam phaser issues.

M133 AMG is very laggy and has head gasket issues.

M139 AMG is too early to tell but the electric turbocharger helps a lot with lag.

I don't like the high HP variants of EA888 because they also lag during street driving.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/toyota...ormance-engine

Toyota on the other hand has money/engineers to ape AMG with a 400-600hp 4 cyl turbo

There is a pretty big market desire for a 7 seat EV, but to satisfy the requirements of that market the vehicle will need to have good range at the top end. It's one of those things where you get bigger, and in order to get bigger you need to get bigger. Then comes in the problem, that market is typically quite price sensitive and most families wouldn't have the money to front what would easily be close to 100k purchase with options. I don't believe you'll be able to get a 600km range 7 seater for 70k. The EV9 is the only 7 seat on the market right now and it's under 500k range at max range for almost 70k. The ID Buzz is going to come in around that as well for not amazing range either.

If they sell a 7 seat with not enough range, you get the lame duck cars that is the iX 40 or the original Model 3 standard range. Great as a in town runabout + extended errands, but not enough to get out of town.

Same reason why we ended up in a PHEV.

The Honda/Toyota families will sell on reputation, neither has been the top of the game in any category for a long time except for mechanical reliability, the perceived robustness isn't going to change unless they really fuck things up and don't fix it. Though Honda getting some better fuel economy would be great. In contrary to Acura, I would say Honda's lineup have been pretty strong except for the Accord, Passport, and Ridgeline.

Yeah, I don't think the 7 seater EV is feasible for reasons you said.

7 seater market has a gap where traditional hybrid and range extenders will see options soon.

I wonder if they’ll take customers with multiple bmw in their past into consideration or just customers moving from a current bmw to another.

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To bad we're too good for this.

https://www.topgear.com/sites/defaul...N4akAA94IF.jpg

I guess we'll enjoy our shitty Pacifica phevs

The 116.0-kWh version will start at the equivalent of $68,450 at current exchange rates, while the 140.0-kWh 009 will cost $80,660

That's pretty dope.

I'd probably buy the EV9 still - charges 2X faster (Zeekr 009 will be at like 70kW average on 400V superchargers), has batteries that work in the cold, and etc

Nowadays for these powertrains...

Capability was horsepower but max charging rate
Usability was torque curve but is now charging curve
"Will I make it" used to be AWD, but since that's now standard, we look at winter charging and 400V supercharger rate

i dug into it some more recently and it's a zf 9 speed licensed to jatco

im rooting for a mitsubishi/nissan comeback lol they could lure toyota buyers with value if the mass toyota powertrain issues persist in the truck/trucky segment

We just need their good SUVs Pajero, Pajero pick up, delica I dunno why they don't sell it here. Since they have it in Australia and I'm sure you can bring them into Europe too

The Hong Kong distributor for Kia and Zeekr had both the 009 and EV9 in the same showroom. As strictly a family hauler, the Zeekr was cheaper, more luxurious, and would probably ride better thanks to the air suspension. The interior was cushioned like a Lexus with a bit of Volvo influence.

We all walked away preferring the 009, even if there wasn't a big price gap between them.