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I rarely see Cavaliers in Burnaby and Vancouver
may be it's slightly a different story in the valley
were their fuel effciency terrible compared to the civic/rolla?
on the topic of being car racist, it seems performance-oriented domestics were rarely seen driven by the visible minority 15 years back....now I see all colours under the sun driving Mustangs and Camaros. What changed the perception?
Compared to a 01-05 Civic, the 2.2L Ecotec equipped Crapliers were easily 10 - 15% worse in fuel efficiency. But you are also getting noticeably more torque.
IMO, the game started changing around 2005 when Chevy came out with the Cobalt and Ford introduced the thoroughly redesigned S197 Mustang. The Cobalt still had many faults, but it was a massive improvement over the POS Craplier. The legititmate SS model -- initially in supercharged form, and later in an even crazier 260hp turbo form -- gave the automotive world a real shocker. The S197 Mustang was such a looker that it was a major sales success for Ford at the time. People probably took notice.
At right around the same time, Honda also gave up on the affordable sporty car market. The RSX had its plug pulled. The new Civic Si has grown. S2k is too expensive and impractical. The Celica died right around that time as well. Nissan had nothing. The Miata is too low powered, and the new version then was "too fat, too ugly".
I would also coincide the changing owner demographics of the domestic brands with the (Mainland) Chinese immigration wave. HK immigrants generally don't have a very favourable impression of domestic brands as they tend to favour Japanese marques. Taiwanese immigrants are somewhat more welcoming of domestic brands (at least with Ford), but it is really with the Mainlanders that have quite a positive image of all things American (as far as lifestyle stuff is related). I seem to come across enough late 20's Mainland Chinese kids driving recent model Mustangs nowadays to suggest that it is a bit of a trend among that ethnic group.
Compared to a 01-05 Civic, the 2.2L Ecotec equipped Crapliers were easily 10 - 15% worse in fuel efficiency. But you are also getting noticeably more torque.
IMO, the game started changing around 2005 when Chevy came out with the Cobalt and Ford introduced the thoroughly redesigned S197 Mustang. The Cobalt still had many faults, but it was a massive improvement over the POS Craplier. The legititmate SS model -- initially in supercharged form, and later in an even crazier 260hp turbo form -- gave the automotive world a real shocker. The S197 Mustang was such a looker that it was a major sales success for Ford at the time. People probably took notice.
At right around the same time, Honda also gave up on the affordable sporty car market. The RSX had its plug pulled. The new Civic Si has grown. S2k is too expensive and impractical. The Celica died right around that time as well. Nissan had nothing. The Miata is too low powered, and the new version then was "too fat, too ugly".
I would also coincide the changing owner demographics of the domestic brands with the (Mainland) Chinese immigration wave. HK immigrants generally don't have a very favourable impression of domestic brands as they tend to favour Japanese marques. Taiwanese immigrants are somewhat more welcoming of domestic brands (at least with Ford), but it is really with the Mainlanders that have quite a positive image of all things American (as far as lifestyle stuff is related). I seem to come across enough late 20's Mainland Chinese kids driving recent model Mustangs nowadays to suggest that it is a bit of a trend among that ethnic group.
The Cobalt is definitely an improvement over the Cavalier, but they have so many problems. Cavalier is worse than the Cobalt in terms of overall quality but it is also way more reliable than the Cobalt.
^you have to rebuild them every 219k kms. cavaliers however will to go 4-500k kms, they're well known for their reliability, longevity and cutting edge style
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If anything, I'd be a bit worried about the CVT. Not hating on the CVT, but Honda CVT hasn't been around long enough(only around 4 years) to prove its longevity.
I had a 08 Accord Coupe with V6. The only reason I sold it was because it was an auto. I would have kept driving it if it was a MT(which is a PITA to find).
If anything, I'd be a bit worried about the CVT. Not hating on the CVT, but Honda CVT hasn't been around long enough(only around 4 years) to prove its longevity.
I had a 08 Accord Coupe with V6. The only reason I sold it was because it was an auto. I would have kept driving it if it was a MT(which is a PITA to find).
I heard that the accord coupe was ONLY good in v6, considering that its a heavier car, and the 4 cyl didn't give it enough go.
I wonder if my civic's CVT is gonna blow one day. They sold me that it's a CVT chain and not a belt, so it won't "snap". But iirc, the 8th gen accord CVT is the same CVT in the 9th gen civic, which sucks donkey nuts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssjGoku69
A 2013 accord for $9k, but has high mileage of 218,000 km. How long do these Honda i4 engines last?
You'll really have to learn how to drive a CVT transmission - fast. If you drive like a typical cee-lai you'll be fine. But if you need to make a pass on the hwy, good luck LOL.
pro tip: if you really need to accelerate you can floor it, and let off to mid throttle and immediately floor it again. It'll make the rpms shoot up.
Though it will probably shit and you won't go fast. You know what? Just don't floor a CVT, it doesn't go anywhere.
Here's a couple links about daily driving a Honda CVT (Tho the 10th's CVT are nice):
You'll really have to learn how to drive a CVT transmission - fast. If you drive like a typical cee-lai you'll be fine. But if you need to make a pass on the hwy, good luck LOL.
pro tip: if you really need to accelerate you can floor it, and let off to mid throttle and immediately floor it again. It'll make the rpms shoot up.
Though it will probably shit and you won't go fast. You know what? Just don't floor a CVT, it doesn't go anywhere.
lol or just go to sport mode and pretty much push it to red at every gear
at least that's what i do when i drive my wife's hr-v
does haul pretty good ass at sport/paddle mode for a 4banger CVT
not sure if the civics have that tho
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lol or just go to sport mode and pretty much push it to red at every gear
at least that's what i do when i drive my wife's hr-v
does haul pretty good ass at sport/paddle mode for a 4banger CVT
not sure if the civics have that tho
Yes the Civics and Accord have "S" on the gear selector for Sport mode.
Keeps the revs up. Also I believe that the Coupe gets paddle shifters, which I really wish I had in my sedan.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeanutButter
Damn, not only is yours veiny AF, yours is thick AF too. Yours is twice as thick as mine.. That looks like a 2" or maybe even 3"?
My family has a 13' Accord coupe with the CVT as well. For a daily driver it's perfect and the CVT is not too intrusive. But definitely not for spirited driving. When it's in sport it's decent and the paddles actually work and will hold revs. But there just isn't much torque in the 4banger if you really want to go. The method mentioned about does definitely work and you'll feel some torque at that point. But looks like it served the PO's needs well - he probably drove 200km/day from Chilliwack>Vancouver to hit that kind of mileage for a 2013.
__________________ '00 Honda Accord V6 [sold]
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Last edited by Simplex123; 09-18-2017 at 02:17 PM.
I heard that the accord coupe was ONLY good in v6, considering that its a heavier car, and the 4 cyl didn't give it enough go.
I wonder if my civic's CVT is gonna blow one day. They sold me that it's a CVT chain and not a belt, so it won't "snap". But iirc, the 8th gen accord CVT is the same CVT in the 9th gen civic, which sucks donkey nuts.
You'll really have to learn how to drive a CVT transmission - fast. If you drive like a typical cee-lai you'll be fine. But if you need to make a pass on the hwy, good luck LOL.
pro tip: if you really need to accelerate you can floor it, and let off to mid throttle and immediately floor it again. It'll make the rpms shoot up.
Though it will probably shit and you won't go fast. You know what? Just don't floor a CVT, it doesn't go anywhere.
Here's a couple links about daily driving a Honda CVT (Tho the 10th's CVT are nice):
My V6 pulled fairly well. The only gripe I had is the auto trans. Not that it's unreliable or anything, but the gears are really tall.
That said, you probably want a good set of tires to use the full potential of the V6. It's FWD and has no LSD, so it can get the wheels to spin easily when accelerating hard from standstill, even with the tall gears.
CVT suffers the tall gear issue I mentioned before. It helps with fuel economy, but also remember it's a full second slower from 0 to 60 than the 6MT counterpart due to the taller gear ratio range the CVT has.
Btw, I think you meant 9th Gen Accord. 8th Gen only had 5AT for the clutchless I4 and V6.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roastpuff
Yes the Civics and Accord have "S" on the gear selector for Sport mode.
Keeps the revs up. Also I believe that the Coupe gets paddle shifters, which I really wish I had in my sedan.
My V6 pulled fairly well. The only gripe I had is the auto trans. Not that it's unreliable or anything, but the gears are really tall.
That said, you probably want a good set of tires to use the full potential of the V6. It's FWD and has no LSD, so it can get the wheels to spin easily when accelerating hard from standstill, even with the tall gears.
Yes the Civics and Accord have "S" on the gear selector for Sport mode.
Keeps the revs up. Also I believe that the Coupe gets paddle shifters, which I really wish I had in my sedan.
I wish the "S" stood for sport. It actually stands for Second LOL. Though, I do find a better throttle response and revs faster in "S". Ofc, just turn off VSA and eco if you want fast throttle response. If you're talking about civic coupes with paddle shifters, I can confirm that the 2014/2015 civic coupe ex-l, does in fact have it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roastpuff
The V6 pulls amazing, even with my 6AT. I have 235/45R18 tires (stock Michelin MXM4) and it can roast them from a dead stop for a good while. . .
Yes the Sports have paddle shifters... but Sports didn't come in V6.
I have a love-hate relationship with the MXM4s (also on the 9th civic). They don't grip well, so you can get loose when you want to. The downside is that when you want grip, you probably won't get it.
IIIRC, you have to load up the tires and be very smooth with your inputs, or it breaks loose/starts squealing. It's also pretty expensive for a 215/45/17, I got a flat in the winter, and CT quoted me ~ $295 LOL.
My gripe about it is that my six year old, 4/32nds PSS (i know i need to change them) still grip better than the MXM4s. Tho I'm not sure if it's because totally different car and size (F: 235/30/19; R: 265/30/19)
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnknownJinX
Btw, I think you meant 9th Gen Accord. 8th Gen only had 5AT for the clutchless I4 and V6. Sport trim Sedans have paddle shifters.
I probably mean the 9th gen accord, I don't know my Accords, sorry. I've always wondered how well the paddle shifters respond. Do they actually work or is it just a gimmick?
General comment:
CVT has it's ups and downs, great for fuel economy, but the aforementioned issues/negatives. If you want great fuel economy and can live with the negatives, its worth looking into. I recently went on a road trip to Portland with a fully loaded 2015 Civic with CVT. It wasn't terrible, my best fuel economy rating was 55 mpg. But I still had to fill up as much as an S2K or blobeye wrx. People in 'merica drive fast, so the Civic had to work really hard just to keep up with flow of traffic - I think its just the CVT paired with the I4 tho.
Edit: I forgot to reply to 604 Boi
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6o4__boi
lol or just go to sport mode and pretty much push it to red at every gear
at least that's what i do when i drive my wife's hr-v
does haul pretty good ass at sport/paddle mode for a 4banger CVT
not sure if the civics have that tho
I think the HR-V actually comes with the newer, redesigned CVT that's found in the 10th gen civic. I believe the CVT was redesigned because the old one (9th gen) couldn't handle the power that the civic turbo would produce. IIRC, the 10th gen actually shifts at redline in D. I haven't tried the 10th gen, but there's only one gear in the 9th. Flooring it to redline in the 9th only results in drone. It will not "shift" until you let off, which then you'll actually see RPMs drop.
Believe it or not, my mother actually feels that a e46 in 5MT is safer than the Civic in CVT, mainly because the CVT at redline is an ugly sound and MT is a much more natural sound.
CVT Sound Clip (Start 0:20 and if you thought your ricer drone was bad LOL):
I wish the "S" stood for sport. It actually stands for Second LOL. Though, I do find a better throttle response and revs faster in "S". Ofc, just turn off VSA and eco if you want fast throttle response. If you're talking about civic coupes with paddle shifters, I can confirm that the 2014/2015 civic coupe ex-l, does in fact have it.
I thought that in the 2016+ Civics it is PRNDSL - Sport, then Low? I am not sure either but I know that in the 2017 Civic my parents have 'S' mode does improve throttle response, and keeps the car in the power band more. 'L' provides better engine braking for downhills etc.
Quote:
I have a love-hate relationship with the MXM4s (also on the 9th civic). They don't grip well, so you can get loose when you want to. The downside is that when you want grip, you probably won't get it.
IIIRC, you have to load up the tires and be very smooth with your inputs, or it breaks loose/starts squealing. It's also pretty expensive for a 215/45/17, I got a flat in the winter, and CT quoted me ~ $295 LOL.
My gripe about it is that my six year old, 4/32nds PSS (i know i need to change them) still grip better than the MXM4s. Tho I'm not sure if it's because totally different car and size (F: 235/30/19; R: 265/30/19)
I probably mean the 9th gen accord, I don't know my Accords, sorry. I've always wondered how well the paddle shifters respond. Do they actually work or is it just a gimmick?
Not a fan of the MXM4's in general - I find them mediocre, and they're not even that quiet to boot! Lack of grip in the dry, lack of grip in the wet, not that quiet when wearing down, and expensive. I will replace them when they wear out with something better. I liked the DWS06, may try Pirelli P Zero All-Season Plus next time?
For the paddle shifters, I really just want them for downshifting when engine braking down steep grades, so that I don't have to use the brakes to engage the "grade control logic" shifting algorithm. I do have to admit that the "grade control logic" is pretty good, but would still like more control over the gears that paddles or even a manual shift mode gate would provide. Another (semi) gripe is that the 6AT isn't the smoothest - though I don't mind the firm engagement of the gears when shifting. People do complain about it though.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeanutButter
Damn, not only is yours veiny AF, yours is thick AF too. Yours is twice as thick as mine.. That looks like a 2" or maybe even 3"?
Yes the Sports have paddle shifters... but Sports didn't come in V6.
I have a Touring - I like the LED headlights.
The 9th Gen 6AT has about the same gear ratios 9th Gen 6MT does, just with taller final gears, so you have good acceleration with better highway fuel economy(taller final gear+VCM) than a V6 6MT has.
And oh yeah, Honda J series sounds amazing.
The upcoming 10th Gen will have a Sport trim for both engine options.
The Touring headlights look cool, but supposedly they don't perform as well according to IIHS. Their testing has been deemed a bit questionable, however, since some people are saying that IIHS may not have aimed the headlights properly before testing.
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