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REVscene MotorsportsRS Motorsports by The Speed Syndicate RS Race Team
Pitt Meadows & Mission Raceway. Organize Race Pre-meets, post Racing related event Pics and discussion. In collaboration with The Speed Syndicate, Official race events presenter. [Solicitation of Professional Racing Events Allowed]
BIC BAWS, got any vid of your sessions? Easier to give you advice if we can see what you're doing instead of just a wall of text. Also, don't be shy to ask for ride alongs at the next track day.
Any advice or feedback would be appreciated. I did find that when reviewing footage, some point-bys may not have been clear. In the video, it looks like I didn't get a point by, but in person, I'm pretty sure that I did get one. Apologies for the angle, my dashcam was tilted and I didn't even notice until reviewing the footage.
Turn 1 - Turn a little bit earlier
Turn 2 - Stay to the left until you get to the turn in cone
Turn 5 - Use a more straight light when going from Turn 5 to Turn 6
Use the whole track on your exits, can carry more speed that way. A lot of the corners you're pinching. Hard to tell for sure in the video (only watched the first one) but it sounds like you're coasting some of the corners? Would tell you you could brake later or gas more/earlier at certain corners but those will come naturally after you work on your lines a bit more.
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Finally hit 2 mins after being stuck at 2:02 for the past 2 seasons. Didn't change anything with the car since July 2017.
Turn 1 - Turn a little bit earlier
Turn 2 - Stay to the left until you get to the turn in cone
Turn 5 - Use a more straight light when going from Turn 5 to Turn 6
Use the whole track on your exits, can carry more speed that way. A lot of the corners you're pinching. Hard to tell for sure in the video (only watched the first one) but it sounds like you're coasting some of the corners? Would tell you you could brake later or gas more/earlier at certain corners but those will come naturally after you work on your lines a bit more.
So T1 turn earlier, then hug left until turn in cone to hit the right apex uphill on T2?
What does pinching mean?
I don't remember if I was coasting, but in the video, if I was it was cause I let the brz pass so I slowed down for that. And I'm surprised that this lap was my PB because I took this lap a lot slower. The video doesn't capture it well, but the BRZ in front of me was driving very reckless and sliding every other corner. So I do recall backing off a little to give space.
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__________________
|| 18 FK8 | R-18692 | Rallye Red | 6 MT ||
|| SOLD 97 E36 M3 Sedan | Arctic Silver | 5MT ||
|| RIP 02 E46 330ci | Schwartz Black II | 5MT | M-Tech II | Black Cube | Shadowline | Stoff Laser/Anthrazit ||
|| RIP 02 E46 M3 | Carbon Black | 6MT ||
@bicbaws it’s hard to tell fro the video, every cameras different but it feels like you’re floating in the middle of the track. I went back and looked at mi first ridge video and you can see with turn 1 to the carousel just how much more of the track I used. Not the best example I’m sure since it was my first time on track with cheap Chinese all seasons lol. Next track day I dropped 4 seconds just for switching to PSS
So T1 turn earlier, then hug left until turn in cone to hit the right apex uphill on T2?
What does pinching mean?
I don't remember if I was coasting, but in the video, if I was it was cause I let the brz pass so I slowed down for that. And I'm surprised that this lap was my PB because I took this lap a lot slower. The video doesn't capture it well, but the BRZ in front of me was driving very reckless and sliding every other corner. So I do recall backing off a little to give space.
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Hey dude, that blue BRZ is me. I’m sorry if I made you feel unsafe, that’s not my intention. I’m just pushing the car in different areas of the track to learn what’s fast and what’s slow with my car on this track. It was my first time at Ridge and I have set high expectations for myself. I was playing with the slip angle, I especially enjoyed the carousel and how you can maintain a solid slip angle throughout the corner with my tires. I imagine that’s what a skid pad would feel like!
However, I must disagree with you with the assertion that my driving was “reckless”.
My BRZ is stock and I did a 2:06.3 that day. I returned on July 7th and hit a 2:05.5. You can see my pads and street tires in the video description. I plan to hit a 2:04 in September, to close off the year before I make heavy modifications to my car over the winter.
Again, I apologize for making you feel unsafe. Thank you for letting me pass and giving me room!
Hey dude, that blue BRZ is me. I’m sorry if I made you feel unsafe, that’s not my intention. I’m just pushing the car in different areas of the track to learn what’s fast and what’s slow with my car on this track. It was my first time at Ridge and I have set high expectations for myself. I was playing with the slip angle, I especially enjoyed the carousel and how you can maintain a solid slip angle throughout the corner with my tires. I imagine that’s what a skid pad would feel like!
However, I must disagree with you with the assertion that my driving was “reckless”.
That's fair, thank you for the clarification. I just saw your rear end sliding out corner after corner, right after a spin out from another car before (and apparently several after we passed LOL). In the moment, I was like "oh shit, i better give this guy space".
I apologize to you or anyone here if I didn't give enough point-bys. I hated being stuck behind that one car that most people in Group C are also infuriated by and I would hate to be that person too.
Edit: Jesus christ you're on GT Radials, that makes so much sense. I had that brand for winters and that was an interestingly brown experience.
That's fair, thank you for the clarification. I just saw your rear end sliding out corner after corner, right after a spin out from another car before (and apparently several after we passed LOL). In the moment, I was like "oh shit, i better give this guy space".
I apologize to you or anyone here if I didn't give enough point-bys. I hated being stuck behind that one car that most people in Group C are also infuriated by and I would hate to be that person too.
Edit: Jesus christ you're on GT Radials, that makes so much sense. I had that brand for winters and that was an interestingly brown experience.
Your point bys were on point lol (couldn’t be said for everyone).
The sliding you noticed is probably me just skirting the slip angle, the tires haven’t actually broken loose.. It’s one thing I’m really trying to develop a butt for. The tires I run have a great linear sound characteristic that helps me learn what the slip angle feels like, paired with my stock suspension, everything happens much slower. I can make sharp mistakes in steering, and the suspension just dampens my inputs. It really is a great learner tire.
mb is very good at driving at this angle, my brother sat in his car and he described the sensation as a 4 wheel slide-rotation, the grip is amazing.
Performance tires generally generate the highest G-sum when at a certain slip angle. It’s different per tire (some require more precision than others).
So T1 turn earlier, then hug left until turn in cone to hit the right apex uphill on T2?
What does pinching mean?
I don't remember if I was coasting, but in the video, if I was it was cause I let the brz pass so I slowed down for that. And I'm surprised that this lap was my PB because I took this lap a lot slower. The video doesn't capture it well, but the BRZ in front of me was driving very reckless and sliding every other corner. So I do recall backing off a little to give space.
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Yup try that and see if it helps at all. Pinching means you're forcing the car on the inside of your exit instead of letting it naturally track out to the outside
That's fair, thank you for the clarification. I just saw your rear end sliding out corner after corner, right after a spin out from another car before (and apparently several after we passed LOL). In the moment, I was like "oh shit, i better give this guy space".
I apologize to you or anyone here if I didn't give enough point-bys. I hated being stuck behind that one car that most people in Group C are also infuriated by and I would hate to be that person too.
Edit: Jesus christ you're on GT Radials, that makes so much sense. I had that brand for winters and that was an interestingly brown experience.
👍🏻 good that you are keeping it safe by giving the car infront space. A good tip i give to my student is if there is tons of car ahead, just go into the hot pit and gap for more free space so everyone can have fun
Anyone know if there's a secondary exit on Mission (aside from the standard exit)? Car ran into an issue on the main straight, which is after the standard exit. So I had to go for another lap :/
Also does this sound like a simple slipping clutch? Basically I put it into 3rd (100% it was in), and then i gassed it, and the revs shot up. I let off, tried again, revs shot up again. This happened on Ridge too, I found that it happened if I was driving it too hard. For example, hard downshift to 2nd, etc.Not sure if a new clutch is needed. I tested every gear on the highway after and the revs did not shoot up. Hopefully it's just a new clutch that is needed and not synchro's or anything.
For T2 (0:07), my instructor told me to go tight tight tight, whereas everyone else who has more track experience than me (and people running in Advance 1) suggested that T2 should be run wide and then cut across to apex. Thoughts?
Also, I recognize when I slowed down, that was pretty unsafe. Hazards on, but I should have checked for traffic coming down the straight. First time having anything bad happen on track, so I didn't know what to do. And crappy lines after the clutch slipped the second time (on the straight - right before pull over)
Anyone know if there's a secondary exit on Mission (aside from the standard exit)? Car ran into an issue on the main straight, which is after the standard exit. So I had to go for another lap :/
Also does this sound like a simple slipping clutch? Basically I put it into 3rd (100% it was in), and then i gassed it, and the revs shot up. I let off, tried again, revs shot up again. This happened on Ridge too, I found that it happened if I was driving it too hard. For example, hard downshift to 2nd, etc.Not sure if a new clutch is needed. I tested every gear on the highway after and the revs did not shoot up. Hopefully it's just a new clutch that is needed and not synchro's or anything.
For T2 (0:07), my instructor told me to go tight tight tight, whereas everyone else who has more track experience than me (and people running in Advance 1) suggested that T2 should be run wide and then cut across to apex. Thoughts?
Also, I recognize when I slowed down, that was pretty unsafe. Hazards on, but I should have checked for traffic coming down the straight. First time having anything bad happen on track, so I didn't know what to do. And crappy lines after the clutch slipped the second time (on the straight - right before pull over)
I believe the secondary exit is near the end of T2, please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not sure if all the organizers use it, just be sure to mention it during the driver's briefing so they can explain how it's being used for the day.
I personally run T2 as wide as possible, but I feel like I can carry more mid-corner speed. Perhaps I'll try a more gradual turn in with more entry speed and trail brake to see what happens. I have a hard time trying it because there's a wall right in front An instructor I've learned from before told me depending on the car, you can try a double apex into T2, I've yet to try that so I have no data on how fast it is for my car.
LOL damn I didn't know you were there at the SF event on Monday. Had I known, I would have come over to say hi in person.
The T2 exit is exactly where versep has pointed out. I think SF, VCMC, and UBCSCC all use it. Keith (from SCCBC) would likely have mentioned it during the driver's meeting in the morning, though it is also possible he might have forgotten. If you ever come across another issue while you're on track and you have past the T9 exit, take the T2 to get out instead of doing another lap.
If any situation ever happens again while you're on track, the safest thing to do is to pull the car off the racing line. What you want to do afterwards would depend on the situation, but unless the car is on fire or something, the safest thing to do is to remain in the car. If your car is no longer moving, the safety mashalls will come to you to help.
I can't hear/identify the audio / sound from the video too well, but based on your description, it sounds like your clutch is on its last legs. A similar thing happened to my winter beater, and a clutch replacement fixed the issue.
The textbook dry racing line for T2 is to start on / close to the outside, turn in, and aim to be in the middle of the track when your car is at the start of the T2 rumble strip, and hit the apex, and the just gradually let the car ease back toward the wall on the right as you accelerate out of the corner. On corner entry and up until you get to the apex -- it's a really late apex -- you want to treat it as a decreasing radius turn. But once you hit the apex, you want to start unwinding your steering wheel and start getting back on gas to exit the corner. If it is wet, you don't want to take the dry line because the track surface there would be polished to a much slicker surface, and there isn't very much grip. You do not want to kiss those walls around T2. But know that the textbook line may not necessarily be the fastest line. Depending on the vehicle, you'd want to adjust it to suit the characteristics of the car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIC_BAWS
Anyone know if there's a secondary exit on Mission (aside from the standard exit)? Car ran into an issue on the main straight, which is after the standard exit. So I had to go for another lap :/
Also does this sound like a simple slipping clutch? Basically I put it into 3rd (100% it was in), and then i gassed it, and the revs shot up. I let off, tried again, revs shot up again. This happened on Ridge too, I found that it happened if I was driving it too hard. For example, hard downshift to 2nd, etc.Not sure if a new clutch is needed. I tested every gear on the highway after and the revs did not shoot up. Hopefully it's just a new clutch that is needed and not synchro's or anything.
For T2 (0:07), my instructor told me to go tight tight tight, whereas everyone else who has more track experience than me (and people running in Advance 1) suggested that T2 should be run wide and then cut across to apex. Thoughts?
Also, I recognize when I slowed down, that was pretty unsafe. Hazards on, but I should have checked for traffic coming down the straight. First time having anything bad happen on track, so I didn't know what to do. And crappy lines after the clutch slipped the second time (on the straight - right before pull over)
LOL damn I didn't know you were there at the SF event on Monday. Had I known, I would have come over to say hi in person.
Me neither hahah. What car are you in? Were you the instructor for Calvin (8th gen si) and Alan (DC2R)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traum
The T2 exit is exactly where versep has pointed out. I think SF, VCMC, and UBCSCC all use it. Keith (from SCCBC) would likely have mentioned it during the driver's meeting in the morning, though it is also possible he might have forgotten. If you ever come across another issue while you're on track and you have past the T9 exit, take the T2 to get out instead of doing another lap.
If any situation ever happens again while you're on track, the safest thing to do is to pull the car off the racing line. What you want to do afterwards would depend on the situation, but unless the car is on fire or something, the safest thing to do is to remain in the car. If your car is no longer moving, the safety mashalls will come to you to help.
As a first timer on Mission, I think more efforts should have been taken to point out the emergency exit points on track. Not sure if it was evident in video, but I had no idea what to do when shit hits the fan.
I don't mean any disrespect, but I didn't really enjoy my time at Mission with Speed-Fanatics. Maybe I'm just spoiled by TSSxRevscene Ridge events, but in particular, the biggest difference was the duration of instruction.
Keith was actually my instructor and he did a good job instructing. It was just the fact that they assigned 2 cars to 1 instructor that made it difficult. I found that it was difficult getting instruction for me and that the other driver had more instruction time. It wasn't until the last session when I was allowed to drive solo, whereas there was 1 on 1 instruction at the Ridge so I was signed off before lunch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traum
I can't hear/identify the audio / sound from the video too well, but based on your description, it sounds like your clutch is on its last legs. A similar thing happened to my winter beater, and a clutch replacement fixed the issue.
Hopefully it just needs a new clutch. Same thing happened on Ridge. However, the issue couldn't be replicated on the streets. Did a couple of clutch tests on the highway and it appears fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traum
The textbook dry racing line for T2 is to start on / close to the outside, turn in, and aim to be in the middle of the track when your car is at the start of the T2 rumble strip, and hit the apex, and the just gradually let the car ease back toward the wall on the right as you accelerate out of the corner. On corner entry and up until you get to the apex -- it's a really late apex -- you want to treat it as a decreasing radius turn. But once you hit the apex, you want to start unwinding your steering wheel and start getting back on gas to exit the corner. If it is wet, you don't want to take the dry line because the track surface there would be polished to a much slicker surface, and there isn't very much grip. You do not want to kiss those walls around T2. But know that the textbook line may not necessarily be the fastest line. Depending on the vehicle, you'd want to adjust it to suit the characteristics of the car.
Thanks for the tips! I'm not sure why Keith told me to go tight tight tight or maybe I interpreted it wrong or I am executing it wrong.
3:06 "you just gotta remember to tuck it in, going wide is a waste of time"
I also found it difficult to stay on my line (Keith and I are talking about it in the beginning of the video) when there are cars in front of me. In this specific example, I took a quicker line than the silver e46 in front of me, so I would have reached the Apex before he did. And if I keep going on my line, there would be a collision.
Do you have the earlier laps of this session recorded Bic_Baws?
No, I wish I did. It got written over.
Edit: Which video are you talking about? Overheated clutch was last session and I have earlier laps of it. "Instructional Lap" was second last session, which I have no video aside from that.
Tho if you were also instructing (not sure if you were, I know you were on track), the session before the "instructional lap", I drove absolutely like shit. Overshot corners, missed lines, turned in too late, you name it. Crappy ass driving. If I had it, i would post it. I should have been black flagged tbh.
Thanks for the tips! I'm not sure why Keith told me to go tight tight tight or maybe I interpreted it wrong or I am executing it wrong.
Just want to mention that Keith is not wrong with his recommendation of going tight tight tight around T2. What he is likely alluding to is that in a door-to-door racing situation, if you try to take the wide-middle-apex line that I mentioned, you'll almost 100% end up having the car behind you trying to squeeze that inside line and force you to stay on the outside while the other car takes up the inside line. If you don't defend your position, you're gonna get pushed out.
That'd be a difference between door-to-door racing and time trial.
Just want to mention that Keith is not wrong with his recommendation of going tight tight tight around T2. What he is likely alluding to is that in a door-to-door racing situation, if you try to take the wide-middle-apex line that I mentioned, you'll almost 100% end up having the car behind you trying to squeeze that inside line and force you to stay on the outside while the other car takes up the inside line. If you don't defend your position, you're gonna get pushed out.
That'd be a difference between door-to-door racing and time trial.
This makes sense, because when I did what Keith suggested, I almost always ended up in front of the car I was following. Which for the purposes of this lapping day, I had to brake and let the car in front go.
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__________________
|| 18 FK8 | R-18692 | Rallye Red | 6 MT ||
|| SOLD 97 E36 M3 Sedan | Arctic Silver | 5MT ||
|| RIP 02 E46 330ci | Schwartz Black II | 5MT | M-Tech II | Black Cube | Shadowline | Stoff Laser/Anthrazit ||
|| RIP 02 E46 M3 | Carbon Black | 6MT ||
Full video. PB: 1:28:540 (pretty disappointed with this tbh). Some parts of video may jump due to "event" mode on dashcam. It thinks there was a wreck or smt.
0:44 Straight to T4, T5, T6. Seems like my best T4, T5, and T6, is here early on
Looks like for T1 and T3, I don't usually hit the brakes until Marker 3 or 2.
I did try to focus a lot on trying not to pinch, as per MB's suggestion above.
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An instructor I've learned from before told me depending on the car, you can try a double apex into T2, I've yet to try that so I have no data on how fast it is for my car.
