The Financier/Accountant Thread

[Gerbs]

What business do you do do for yourself now?

[Euro7r]

Originally Posted by Gh0st

Have a family member and several friends in the accounting field. They did the standard diploma / bba in Accounting / Finance then went on to article while they work on their designations in public practice mainly.

Pretty surprised at how many people aspire to be accountants. Long fucking hours. Brutal office politics. Working in a firm with 50-200 people (depending on size) with everyone competing with you to move up from staff accountant to accountant to senior accountant, ect.

All the unpaid travel hours and unpaid overtime paired with not being able to take time off in December because of year end, and not until at least May because of tax season is absolutely crazy.

Ya'll work hard. I respect the grind and work ethic. I noticed many people spending all of their pay cheques at indochino on budget suits since the pay is so incredibly shit. No one ever talks about how shit the pay is.

Starting 36k, after 1 year get like 42k and after 2 years maybe get 44 max? Then you get your CPA designation and like someone posted above earn anywhere between 45-55k.

You don't really get ROI until you are at least 10+ years deep in the game. By then you'll just have only paid off your massive student loans. The accounting field is prestigious and you learn amazing things from the industry that you can apply to your own life... but will you even have a life after the insane amount of hours you're working.

Every accountant I know is in a state of burn out and misery. It's sad. I wish the best for all accountants out there. Keep up the grind and pray for the best.

I went into a different area of business.. with the spare time I have I am able to start a business of my own.. doing 100k at the age of 25.

I have one buddy who made smart plays in his career, went into internal accounting for a mid size firm in downtown. He's about 6 years in the game and after much strategizing and playing his cards right he's now at 70-80k salary working like a dog. Literally doing coke and drinking every weekend to unwind.

Sorry I just felt the need to write about this as I'm sure many seasoned accountants here can probably attest to most of my points.

^Yup, heard all of the above points. I knew a friend that worked in audit for one of the Big Five Firms at that time in the 90's and he said he was being paid $65K and busting his ass out 60+hours every week. He got so tired and said fuck it and opened his own accounting firm, never looked back since then. Every year drives a different car lol.

I feel like if you have potential to move up to a management role, CPA designation/accounting is well worth it. Even my CFO says the the years after getting designated, salary complete shit until later on in your career. If you are lucky you would land a management role position after designation. It's really what you do with it. If you don't plan to do anything with the designation, then it's clearly not worth the time/stress. I know people that have the designation and just stay as staff accountant making a shit salary.......makes me wonder what's was the purpose.

I ain't designated but when my firm is busy, literally 60 hour weeks and no life. Eventually the stress caught up to my body, definitely not worth it. Not 25 years old anymore.

[sexyaccord]

Originally Posted by Gh0st

Have a family member and several friends in the accounting field. They did the standard diploma / bba in Accounting / Finance then went on to article while they work on their designations in public practice mainly.

Pretty surprised at how many people aspire to be accountants. Long fucking hours. Brutal office politics. Working in a firm with 50-200 people (depending on size) with everyone competing with you to move up from staff accountant to accountant to senior accountant, ect.

All the unpaid travel hours and unpaid overtime paired with not being able to take time off in December because of year end, and not until at least May because of tax season is absolutely crazy.

Ya'll work hard. I respect the grind and work ethic. I noticed many people spending all of their pay cheques at indochino on budget suits since the pay is so incredibly shit. No one ever talks about how shit the pay is.

Starting 36k, after 1 year get like 42k and after 2 years maybe get 44 max? Then you get your CPA designation and like someone posted above earn anywhere between 45-55k.

You don't really get ROI until you are at least 10+ years deep in the game. By then you'll just have only paid off your massive student loans. The accounting field is prestigious and you learn amazing things from the industry that you can apply to your own life... but will you even have a life after the insane amount of hours you're working.

Every accountant I know is in a state of burn out and misery. It's sad. I wish the best for all accountants out there. Keep up the grind and pray for the best.

I went into a different area of business.. with the spare time I have I am able to start a business of my own.. doing 100k at the age of 25.

I have one buddy who made smart plays in his career, went into internal accounting for a mid size firm in downtown. He's about 6 years in the game and after much strategizing and playing his cards right he's now at 70-80k salary working like a dog. Literally doing coke and drinking every weekend to unwind.

Sorry I just felt the need to write about this as I'm sure many seasoned accountants here can probably attest to most of my points.

Its true!
its shit, the meal ticket for most in public practice is the move the industry. 95% of accountants in public practice aspire to move to industry at some point or another.

A lot of "senior accountants" at public firms make the move directly to at least an accounting manager/controller, the pay jump is significant.

[Euro7r]

Bumping this again.

Writing that damn CPA core 1 exam the 3rd time. Finally going to write it after pushing it off for most of this year. If I pass, I'll move on, if I don't, not the end of the world.

I've been applying to jobs lately and notice the insane number of people all looking for work. E.g. Lululemon FA job, literally over 100+ applicants on linkedin. <1% chance of getting the job.

Seems like to get a job these days, it's who you know and connection. Feels like CPA don't mean shit anymore since market is ton of people with it. Only so many jobs out there.

[Gerbs]

Is it only 3 attempts for core 1 exam? Is the FA job mainly FR&A?

[Euro7r]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

Is it only 3 attempts for core 1 exam? Is the FA job mainly FR&A?

Yeah FR/A.

Yeah you can attempt 3 times and if you failed 3rd attempt, have to start from Core 1 all over again from my understanding. It is not like CA/CGA/CMA back then, after 3rd attempt in any course, you are done with that program, officially kicked out forever.

My coworker is on her 4th attempt with Core 1. Likely not worthwhile for her since she is wasting her time on a career likely not suitable for her. She works in a different department not accounting. Her mindset is, her degree is accounting, so she thinks she should pursue it. Makes no sense, she is already 31, zero experience in the accounting industry, how do you even know thats something you will like doing if you don't even work in the field.

[quayzy]

Originally Posted by Euro7r

I've been applying to jobs lately and notice the insane number of people all looking for work. E.g. Lululemon FA job, literally over 100+ applicants on linkedin. <1% chance of getting the job.

Seems like to get a job these days, it's who you know and connection. Feels like CPA don't mean shit anymore since market is ton of people with it. Only so many jobs out there.

Have you tried going through recruitment agencies? A lot of jobs never make it into the public domain, many companies go straight to the recruiters to find the right candidate for them.

And yeah having a connection will get you in the door but an unqualified person won't be able to cut it there forever. CPA ain't no cake walk, it'll help you develop skills and qualities that'll be necessary for senior level positions.

Good luck with the test and job search!

[dhari]

Hi all, just want to share my accounting story with yall!

Coming out of high-school I totally did not know what I wanted to do so I started a General Arts Degree at SFU. After about a year of doing poorly I spoke to some friends who were at BCIT doing their FMGT Diploma in hopes of getting into accounting. I followed suit and loved it!

After completing my diploma I started to work full time as an accounts payable clerk, accounting clerk, staff accountant, ect in various industries while doing my BBA very slowly at BCIT. After my BBA I was planning to get my designation.


My last role was Senior Accountant for a transportation company. I learned so much from that position because the C-suite was amazing. I loved that company but started feeling bored of the whole accounting thing and I definitely did not want to do my designation. One day I woke up and didn't want to go to work. I actually ended up going in that day but told my Director of Finance that I'm done. So I gave them 3 days notice and bounced. At the age of 30 that was a big thing for me. Totally felt a weight coming off my shoulders.

I learned so much about business, organizing, communication, finance and many industries in my 8 year accounting experience. I don't have any regrets about the time I spent because I learned so many great skills.

One year later, I'm working for a private lender, heading their investment division. I feel great about my decisions.

[Euro7r]

Originally Posted by quayzy

Have you tried going through recruitment agencies? A lot of jobs never make it into the public domain, many companies go straight to the recruiters to find the right candidate for them.

And yeah having a connection will get you in the door but an unqualified person won't be able to cut it there forever. CPA ain't no cake walk, it'll help you develop skills and qualities that'll be necessary for senior level positions.

Good luck with the test and job search!

I haven't looked into agency so far. I have a job right now, so I'm not "desperate" to that extent I need a job, but just applying whatever I see that catches my attention so far as I want to diversify my work experience.

Yeah, my buddy that works for a crown corporation that is a CMA told me, the trend nowadays is towards it's who you know, not so much your resume experience/education. Getting in is the hard part, once you are in, then you still will need to show them your skills/assets, no walk in the park once you are in.

[Gerbs]

CFA exam in < 14 hours

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by dhari

After completing my diploma I started to work full time as an accounts payable clerk, accounting clerk, staff accountant, ect in various industries while doing my BBA very slowly at BCIT. After my BBA I was planning to get my designation.

I learned so much about business, organizing, communication, finance and many industries in my 8 year accounting experience. I don't have any regrets about the time I spent because I learned so many great skills.

One year later, I'm working for a private lender, heading their investment division. I feel great about my decisions.

Hey, i'm currently in the FMGT program. Does it really matter if I do the BBA or Bachelors of Accounting, I was planning to get the degree in accounting as an exit strategy if finance doesn't work out for me. Also on a side note. Does staff accountants pay well?

[Euro7r]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

Hey, i'm currently in the FMGT program. Does it really matter if I do the BBA or Bachelors of Accounting, I was planning to get the degree in accounting as an exit strategy if finance doesn't work out for me. Also on a side note. Does staff accountants pay well?

Depends on the organization.

For senior level, likely looking around $60-75k base salary average.

[Gerbs]

Is there bonus and is this $60-75k based off of like F500 companies or like public accounting.

[Euro7r]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

Is there bonus and is this $60-75k based off of like F500 companies or like public accounting.

10% bonus of salary is generally a safe figure. I've based the figures off of friends that work in the same industry as me, private. Not sure what public figures are like.

[lowside67]

I think the bulk of "Staff Accountant" (ie not senior, but designated) positions are not likely to break $60k before bonus.

-Mark

[sexyaccord]

senior accountant(designated) @ big 4 ~ 60k, 2017 figure.

[G0rilla]

CPA,CA chiming in here, been in the field for about 7 years or so now. Worked public (never again) and jumped to industry.

Salary level wise from what I've seen and heard from other friends and colleagues is quite depressing.

Fresh out of school (BBA), no experience "Junior accountant, staff associate, AP/AR,etc" - $35-45k
BBA No designation (2 to 3 years exp) "staff accountant, intermediate accountant, financial analyst,etc" - $40-50k
BBA (CPA, 2 to 3 years) "same titles as above"- $50-60K
BBA (CPA, 5 years and up) "Senior accountant, Senior Financial Analyst" - $55-65K
BBA (CPA, 5 year<) "Accounting manager, etc" - $65-75k
BBA (CPA, 5 year<) "Controller,etc" - $80k and up

Again, these are pretty ballpark figures, depends heavily on the industry, organization, work dynamics etc. But all in all, it seems that in the general public eye is that accountants make a lot of money, which horribly inaccurate. I think accounting is stable and grants you opportunities, but getting rich is hard. It would take quite a bit of work experience, building relationships in company, networking, etc to help break that $100k mark.

Public practice pay is low, hours are long, working relationships and corporate structure are taxing and demanding. You definitely don't make money working public practice (Big 4, or even a midsize firm) unless you are a partner; which by then probably wont even happen for 90% of people. Basically the only way to make partner is if somebody dies or retires which isn't likely and could take forever. You would have to fight against all the other people trying to climb up behind you, while defending from people above you trying to keep you down lol.

Edit: For those looking to Robert Half or wahtever recruiter has up on their site as a summary for "Financial Sector Salaries for 2017", please don't believe that shit. Those salaries are inflated by at least 20-30%, and don't use it as reference to try to argue for a raise with your boss (ask me how I know lol).

[Euro7r]

^good summary range!

Totally agree, it's not til you get older and way down the road till you start raking in some decent money. E.g. I work at a private mid-size company, my Controller is paid $160K with bonus, but she is in her mid 50's now. So you can see the drift how long it took her to get up here...

[quayzy]

Originally Posted by Euro7r

I haven't looked into agency so far. I have a job right now, so I'm not "desperate" to that extent I need a job, but just applying whatever I see that catches my attention so far as I want to diversify my work experience.

That's the catch though, many jobs aren't publicly advertised so you're not aware of roles that would fit you well.

A hiring company will reach out to recruiters to help fill an available position, then the recruiters look into their candidate pool for someone that fits the needs of the company. By you reaching out to recruiters early and letting them know what kind of role you're looking for, hopefully you'll come to mind when a good opportunity becomes available. Otherwise you're totally missing out on these roles altogether.

[Nlkko]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

Hey, i'm currently in the FMGT program. Does it really matter if I do the BBA or Bachelors of Accounting, I was planning to get the degree in accounting as an exit strategy if finance doesn't work out for me. Also on a side note. Does staff accountants pay well?

Dude, how is accounting your "exit strategy"? Please do yourself a favor and re-evaluate. Honest advice and not a diss to you at all. Pay is pretty average considering all the shit you have to go through to get designated.

I think you meant "plan B"...

I would get a bit of technology knowledge. Fintech is pretty hot right now.

[dat_steve]

Originally Posted by G0rilla

Edit: For those looking to Robert Half or wahtever recruiter has up on their site as a summary for "Financial Sector Salaries for 2017", please don't believe that shit. Those salaries are inflated by at least 20-30%, and don't use it as reference to try to argue for a raise with your boss (ask me how I know lol).

I've always read these and felt short changed lolllll

[dhari]

If you are smart and strategic you will learn as much as you can about how to operate a business from start to finish and then transition to a different career or start your own business. Having a strong accounting background speaks volumes in the business community.

[airclimber]

Anyone have recommendations for recruitment firms?

[quayzy]

Originally Posted by airclimber

Anyone have recommendations for recruitment firms?

From the hiring side, I've made successful hires using the following:

Robert Half: by far the biggest candidate pool but I find that they pass along resumes that aren't always well suited to the role. Once in a while you hit the right candidate though.
Horizon Recruitment: they really filter through their candidate pool and only present candidates that they truly think will fit well.
Impact Recruitment: same experience as Horizon

From a job seeker perspective, may be best to go with both Robert Half for the greatest exposure and also with a smaller boutique firm that will invest more time in finding right fit. They might not like you shopping yourself to other agencies though

[tiger_handheld]

Originally Posted by airclimber

Anyone have recommendations for recruitment firms?

Definitely not RH.

Mason Group, MacNak - both great.

Best is applying yourself though. Pound those job sites everyday. It's like dating - a numbers game.