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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
my thoughts on what happened was Ukraine wants to seek revenge against Russia for shooting down its su-25 which happened earlier. mistakenly identified mh17 for russian jets, shot it down, then realized it had committed a big crime. next, decided to play along by reporting the incident acting all innocently, then accuses russian militia and/or pro-russian separatists. the us mostly likely had a role in this. possible mh370 suffered similar fate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xpl0sive
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a US missile that was fired from Ukraine. US is looking for any excuse to intervene.
i think its highly likely the US played a role in this once again. The US or nato was in the area using ukraine to shoot Putin's presidential plane which happened to fly through the area half an hour prior. Obama wants Putin dead. ukraine mistakenly shoots MH17.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gululu
Spoiler!
my thoughts on what happened was Ukraine wants to seek revenge against Russia for shooting down its su-25 which happened earlier. mistakenly identified mh17 for russian jets, shot it down, then realized it had committed a big crime. next, decided to play along by reporting the incident acting all innocently, then accuses russian militia and/or pro-russian separatists. the us mostly likely had a role in this. possible mh370 suffered similar fate.
i think its highly likely the US played a role in this once again. The US or nato was in the area using ukraine to shoot Putin's presidential plane which happened to fly through the area half an hour prior. Obama wants Putin dead. ukraine mistakenly shoots MH17.
my thoughts on what happened was Ukraine wants to seek revenge against Russia for shooting down its su-25 which happened earlier. mistakenly identified mh17 for russian jets, shot it down, then realized it had committed a big crime. next, decided to play along by reporting the incident acting all innocently, then accuses russian militia and/or pro-russian separatists. the us mostly likely had a role in this. possible mh370 suffered similar fate.
i think its highly likely the US played a role in this once again. The US or nato was in the area using ukraine to shoot Putin's presidential plane which happened to fly through the area half an hour prior. Obama wants Putin dead. ukraine mistakenly shoots MH17.
Legally the U.S. president can't kill a head of state.
In a time of "war" (declared or authorized by Congress or by the president's exercising his constitutional power to defend the United States against an attack), targeted killings -- including the deliberate killing of a head of state -- would be lawful. But absent a state of war, the deliberate killing of the leader of another state, a nonstate group, or a group of terrorists would be an assassination, that is, a killing done for political purposes. Under the administration of President Gerald Ford, a task force headed by then Attorney General Edward Levi exhaustively discussed those distinctions. Those deliberations led to a flat ban on assassination, which was issued in 1976 as Executive Order 11905. The executive order was a reaction to the various attempts of U.S. intelligence agencies to assassinate foreign leaders in the 1960s and 1970s without the sanction of anything resembling a state of war. As Byman acknowledges, subsequent presidents have upheld that ban. It is true that subsequent administrations have justified attempts to kill heads of state even absent a state of war without changing the text of the ban, but such exceptions have not created a new rule.
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
Social media posts by pro-Russian insurgents - most of them hastily removed - suggest the rebels thought they had shot down a Ukrainian army plane before realising in horror that it was in fact a packed Malaysian airliner.
The Twitter and blog messages were immediately publicised by top Kiev officials in their furious information war with the Kremlin for global opinion and the hearts and minds of ethnic Russians caught in the worst East-West crisis since the Cold War.
Confirmation of separatist fighters killing 298 passengers and crew on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur would further complicate Russian President Vladimir Putin's efforts to paint their uprising as a fight for self-determination.
Russia's state media avoided any mention of the controversial posts and instead reported militia leaders' later charges that the Ukrainian air force had shot down the Boeing 777 liner instead.
'We downed an An-26'
The rebels first claimed to have downed at least one Ukrainian army plane over the strife-torn eastern rustbelt on late Thursday afternoon.
The VK social networking page of Igor Strelkov - "defence minister" of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic - first announced: "We just downed an An-26 near (the town of) Torez."
"And here is a video confirming that a 'bird fell'," said the post.
The website then provides a link identical to that published by Ukrainian media in reports about the Malaysia Airlines jet.
The video shows locals referring to the same coal mine in the region mentioned by Strelkov.
The strongly pro-Kiev Ukrainska Pravda news site later posted an audio recording of what it claimed were the intercepted field communications between rebels and a Russian agent discussing the downing.
"We just downed a plane," a rebel the recording identifies as Bes (Demon) tells an alleged Russian military intelligency officer.
Another recording shows one alleged fighter reporting from the site of the plane's remains that it was "100 percent certain this is a civilian aircraft."
He spits out a Russian expletive when asked whether there were a lot of passengers on board.
'We have seized missiles'
The VK post was soon removed -- but not before its screen grab was captured and distributed in an English-language press release by the military headquarters of Kiev's eastern campaign.
The comments attributed to Strelkov did not identify what missile was used to down the craft at what Kiev said was an altitude of 10,000 metres (33,000 feet).
But a message on the official Twitter account of the Donetsk People's Republic had announced hours earlier that insurgents had seized a series of Russian-made Buk systems capable of soaring to that height.
"@dnrpress: self-propelled Buk surface-to-air missile systems have been seized by the DNR from (Ukrainian) surface-to-air missile regiment A1402," said the post.
That tweet was later deleted as well.
Putin says Kiev responsible
Ukraine's pro-Western President Petro Poroshenko quickly called the incident a "terrorist act" and said he "could not exclude" that the plane was shot down by the insurgents.
But Putin said the incident would have never have happened had Poroshenko not ripped up a brief truce agreement and "resumed military activities in southeastern Ukraine".
Both separatist leaders and Russian defence officials also took pains to implicate Poroshenko's forces and erase all memories of the insurgents' initial pronouncements about downing a Ukrainian transport plane.
Rebel Donetsk prime minister Oleksandr Borodai told Russian media that his units did not have equipment capable of reaching the cruising altitude of a Boeing.
Borodai said it was "technically impossible" for the pro-Russian gunmen to have launched such a high-altitude strike.
And the Russian defence ministry argued that it was far more likely for the Ukrainian military to have fired the Buk missile.
298 (283 passengers and 15 crew) in total confirmed dead. Malaysian Airlines did not count 3 infants on the official manifest. Horrible year for Malaysia. Holy. Confirmed to be shot down and broke up in flight.
It's interesting that every time a member proposes a theory, it gets frowned upon by the masses because it's not a popular opinion. Ironically, inventions and innovations are byproducts of theories prior to creation.
Putin is claiming that the Ukrainian government is responsible as this incident wouldn't have occurred if they have stopped the conflict in the east. What a scumbag move after supplying the rebels with the military technology to shoot down the aircraft.
Its either that or back to the conspiracy theory that this is planned by the US or EU or Ukraine.
I am interested to see how the EU and US take more sanctions on Russia as they have just recently escalated their economic sanctions before this incident.
my thoughts on what happened was Ukraine wants to seek revenge against Russia for shooting down its su-25 which happened earlier. mistakenly identified mh17 for russian jets, shot it down, then realized it had committed a big crime. next, decided to play along by reporting the incident acting all innocently, then accuses russian militia and/or pro-russian separatists. the us mostly likely had a role in this. possible mh370 suffered similar fate.
i think its highly likely the US played a role in this once again. The US or nato was in the area using ukraine to shoot Putin's presidential plane which happened to fly through the area half an hour prior. Obama wants Putin dead. ukraine mistakenly shoots MH17.
A radar system saw a surface-to-air missile system turn on and track an aircraft right before the plane went down, the senior U.S. official said. A second system saw a heat signature at the time the airliner was hit, the official said. The United States is analyzing the trajectory of the missile to try to learn where the attack came from, the official said
I found this interesting. I'm curious what "systems" the US is talking about and in what areas were they (AWAC, satellite or other). And the bit about the "trajectory" is also interesting. It's almost like the US is saying "we know where it came from, so we'll soon be able to figure out who fired it."
and the fact that the media has done a good job desensitizing people over the years
Who's "The Media"?
We're desensitized because there's WAY more information available to us than there has ever been in human history. It's not some "organization" looking to do it as their "job", it's just part of how culture has changed over the years.
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