You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
that's just inane...it would be like someone breaking into your house, seizing it, kicking you out to the curb, and building a moat around your house and blaming you for there being a moat :P
I'll give you that. The situation is messed up, if Israel truly wants a 2-state solution then they need to disband the settlements and withdraw to the pre-67 borders. Whoever would want to live in such a fortress environment is beyond my comprehension anyways.
Quote:
I would have no problem living in Jordan or even Syria (before the current disaster there) I doubt I would have an issue living in a free Gaza or West Bank either but none of us can be certain until that day.
I'm assuming you're neither a woman or a homosexual, because that would be foolhardy for you to want to live in such countries. I also hope you're not too attached to notions of rule of law and social justice either, because as friendly and hospitable as Jordanians and Syrians may be I highly doubt you be counting on that if you were ever wrongly arrested or accused of something.
Quote:
But I don't see how a "free" Israel is justification for their actions? If that "freedom" is built upon an ongoing slaughter and subjugation of innocents then that freedom is a false one.
I never said that their Democracy was a justification for what they're doing. I'm merely stating the fact that it's unfair to burden Israel entirely with the conflict which many seem to do. The Palestinians made their own bed and have to lie in it too. There's also a ton of interests coming from other Arab Countries that could do a ton more to help the Palestinian plight but instead seek to prolong the conflict for their own gains.
I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CELICAland
Posts: 25,666
Thanked 10,387 Times in 3,913 Posts
Failed 1,390 Times in 625 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CivicBlues
I never said that their Democracy was a justification for what they're doing. I'm merely stating the fact that it's unfair to burden Israel entirely with the conflict which many seem to do. The Palestinians made their own bed and have to lie in it too. There's also a ton of interests coming from other Arab Countries that could do a ton more to help the Palestinian plight but instead seek to prolong the conflict for their own gains.
I agree, Hamas' tactics are just as abhorrent and leave much to be desired but I do expect Israel to take the brunt of the criticism as they're seen as the established, democratic, recognized government/nation here...they're not a terrorist organization (that only recently is "attempting" to be an actual political party) so they should be held to a higher standard imo.
But I agree absolutely blame is to be placed on both sides.
I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CELICAland
Posts: 25,666
Thanked 10,387 Times in 3,913 Posts
Failed 1,390 Times in 625 Posts
Actually Gaza was only getting 4hrs of electricity use per day due to damage and shortages
Israel sells roughly 60% of Gazas total electricity use, egypt provides 10% and the rest comes from the power plant
50% of gaza city's electricity comes from the plant and 50% from Israel, power was already lacking in Gaza and now its far worse
(based on older info sorry dont have current figures)
also from the guardian
Quote:
Flames and clouds of black smoke billowed over Gaza's only power plant on after it was destroyed during the most relentless and widespread Israeli bombardment of the current conflict. At least 100 people were killed on Tuesday, according to Gaza health officials.
"The power plant is finished," said its director, Mohammed al-Sharif, signalling a new crisis for Gaza's 1.8 million people, who were already enduring power cuts of more than 20 hours a day.
Amnesty International said the crippling of the power station amounted to "collective punishment of Palestinians". The strike on the plant will worsen already severe problems with Gaza's water supply, sewage treatment and power supplies to medical facilities.
"We need at least one year to repair the power plant, the turbines, the fuel tanks and the control room," said Fathi Sheik Khalil of the Gaza energy authority. "Everything was burned." He said crew members who had been trapped by the fire for several hours were evacuated.
Gaza City officials said damage to the power station could paralyse pumps and urged residents to ration water.
Israel didn't even make accusations that weapons were there it was simply acting to punish hence targeting the power station, the tv station, the radio station, the open-air food market, UN refugee building
the statement made after the attacks were simply
Quote:
"Bringing them to a point of breaking is not a target, but if they break we don't feel sorry,"
no mention of weapons etc. as per the usual when targeting a site
I would like to know how the 'occupiers' here would feel if the Aboriginal People started putting together military resistance and firing rockets into and blowing up bombs around Vancouver - refusing to stop until we all moved back 'home' away from North America or into the Pacific Ocean.
Would you support military action against the Indian Reserves even if it meant killing women and children in order to stop rocket attacks, kidnappings, and suicide bombers attacking your neighborhood? How about blockades and isolationist practices to prevent the buildup of weapons caches on the Reserves?
Unless you can really imagine what that might be like - you can't answer the question honestly.
I guess the most interesting part for me, is that the Aboriginal people here have a lot more of a justifiable land claim than the Palestinians do to Israel/Palestine.
One key difference? When the European settlers arrived with small-pox infested blankets and stockpiles of weapons and wiped out 98% of the Aboriginals in North America (according to some estimates) they were left with a small group of 200,000 oppressed people by the late 1800's without the potential to form any kind of meaningful opposition.
I don't think there are many Aboriginal People around who wouldn't like to have all their lands and resources back. They were conquered, and no one is ever happy about being conquered. However, land is not owned on earth, it is controlled. I think its fair to say Canada and America will not be giving back their land and the control of it to the Aboriginal peoples anytime soon. I would say the same is true for Israel.
The land in question in the Middle East was controlled by neither the Arabs or the Jews for almost 500 years leading up to WWI. The Jews do have a long history with the region, and were getting killed and expelled by the Romans in Jerusalem long before Islam became a popular religion there.
I am not pro-Israel, I am pro common sense. I wouldn't expect any free country to live with a constant organized threat of terrorism to its people and not take any kind of action. Geographically we are pretty fortunate. Do you think things would not be a little different if North America shared borders with all of the Middle Eastern nations, Pakistan, Indonesia, and a few African countries? There is an ongoing concentrated effort by the powers that be to ensure the 'threats' do not have the capabilities to reach the continent.
Many people in this thread disregard logic, facts, and hard reality in favor of heartstrings, sad images, and propaganda. Its the easy way out.
Anyone on the planet can say 'Hey, they killed a child, they are bad people' it would be virtually impossible to disagree with that statement.
Try rationalizing to someone how the death of a child was somehow necessary or at least unavoidable - much harder to do.
I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CELICAland
Posts: 25,666
Thanked 10,387 Times in 3,913 Posts
Failed 1,390 Times in 625 Posts
The first nations did fight back and they were slaughtered...we today view that to be horribly wrong and reparations were and are being made, self rule is given, and ongoing amendments are being made/discussed.
Luckily for all of us it isn't hundreds of years ago and we've advanced as a society and can see where our ancestors went wrong...and why many of us can see the atrocities going on in Palestine/Israel and know that its wrong.
But perhaps the First Nations issue is why it's difficult for Americans to fully accept the plight of Palestinians. As they were far more brutal and less conciliatory to First Nations than Canada has been and continue to this day to harbour a great deal more hatred/racism towards the issue.
Even if you were to agree with the stance of Israel you would expect them to act within the parameters of the law no? for instance take this argument about the "warnings" before bombing http://opiniojuris.org/2014/07/30/gu...warnings-gaza/
The first nations did fight back and they were slaughtered...we today view that to be horribly wrong and reparations were and are being made, self rule is given, and ongoing amendments are being made/discussed.
Luckily for all of us it isn't hundreds of years ago and we've advanced as a society and can see where our ancestors went wrong...and why many of us can see the atrocities going on in Palestine/Israel and know that its wrong.
But perhaps the First Nations issue is why it's difficult for Americans to fully accept the plight of Palestinians. As they were far more brutal and less conciliatory to First Nations than Canada has been and continue to this day to harbour a great deal more hatred/racism towards the issue.
Reparations... pfffft!. Your copping out of his parrallel. Fuck the reparations. He's asking what if that's not what they want; what if what they want is the land you currently possess, and you out in the sea; and they're willing to bomb, extort, and terrorize you for it.
I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CELICAland
Posts: 25,666
Thanked 10,387 Times in 3,913 Posts
Failed 1,390 Times in 625 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noir
Reparations... pfffft!. Your copping out of his parrallel. Fuck the reparations. He's asking what if that's not what they want; what if what they want is the land you currently possess, and you out in the sea; and they're willing to bomb, extort, and terrorize you for it.
there are some first nations groups which still hope to regain all their lands and have become violent over it but what has Canada done? they cordoned off areas and then negotiated, they didn't go in and slaughter civilians and infrastructure to destabilize the extremists
that's not what the palestinians want though they just want their own state and to run it freely and without the settlements
Hamas may want more than that but the governing Likud party of Israel doesn't want 2 states either... the party which is currently bombing Gaza into rubble... hmm where is your recognition of that?
you assume we are not bound to make the same mistakes as our ancestors. or that we are somehow more civilized or higher in morals and reasoning.
you are wrong. we are still bound by the same bodily and mental constraints as they were. and our intellectual capacity and potential has not changed.
We're literally the same type of people, with access to slightly more technologically advanced tools.
don't make the mistake of assuming we are somehow better than the people of the past because we have better technology. Our technology comes from the compounded passing down of information and technology over the course of countless generations... where as we humans keep passing down the same genetics (some could argue, we have worse genetics now).
If we transported ourselves back in time, and replaced (insert group here), we'd do the exact same thing they did, if the circumstances were exactly the same.
Like I said before, the problem here isn't some logical mathematical problem that can be solved. The problem isn't to do with technology or information. The problem is us.
and to be honest, it might not even be a problem. I think it is actually just a part of humans. We only see a narrow slice of time, and we read about other even narrower slices of time through history books and other teachings. It is like the birth of any nation or any of the "civilized" nations we see around today. They all went through the same phase at one point. The fighting and bloodshed. It literally is how a society grows and matures. It's just a phase building to something bigger.
That being said, only one "entity" can prosper on that piece of land. To get to the next stage of peace and prosperity, there must be unity. Either through assimilation, submission, or destruction of one side. There just IS no other way. Every other solution will just inevitably lead back to square 1. That pattern of humans is most easy to predict, and it's the most time tested... with tons of examples and empirical proof in our history and current real life examples. It's just part of what makes mankind... mankind.
War is ugly and horrible, but if war was not innate to human beings, I think we would have found a way to stop repeating it by now. If we didn't have the burden of birth and death, having to relearn, reteach everything to each individual that comes into this world... and watch them repeat the same god damn mistakes over and over again because of this process... If we were all just immortal and got super old and just "learned" from our mistakes... this shit wouldn't happen.
But we do get old and die. our future generations do grow up into an unknown world, wanting to try and do everything again for the first time. They will inevitably make the same mistakes. Just like you didn't listen to your parents. Our future generations wont listen either. The problem is we can only pass down info. and data. Those are never good enough. People are skeptical. they wanna always do things their way, no matter what, until they learn from pain. learn from their mistakes.
the problem is we can't pass down experiences. therefore humans will always keep repeating the same mistake. Every human is born a fresh blank state into this world. They will go through the same growing and learning process as every other human. Humans make up societies. Societies grow based on those humans. Societies are just be a mere reflection of the freshly born people that make it up... them using the technology us older dead people left behind for them... much like a family heirloom... that's all our technology is to new people, a heirloom that they'll build on and pass down. It does NOT make them smarter or more civilized than us or anything.
I guess that was a ramble. It doesn't solve anything. But it opens the doors to understanding why these things keep happening. And it helps us look in the right direction as to how to "solve" this problem.
If I had to bet my life... I would bet my life that war will be innate to our existence on this planet, for many generations to come. I would hope I was wrong, and that we do achieve world peace some how... but then i'd die. fuck.
Last edited by Ulic Qel-Droma; 07-31-2014 at 01:23 AM.
I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CELICAland
Posts: 25,666
Thanked 10,387 Times in 3,913 Posts
Failed 1,390 Times in 625 Posts
As you say societies grow and mature and I believe with that maturity a realization is attained (hindsight) and that maturity has shown us that the actions of our ancestors when it came to First Nations was abhorrent hence the amends and different tactics taken today
That experience can be passed down to the next generation how well it is learned is another matter...isn't that what parenting is? do all parents fail?
there are some first nations groups which still hope to regain all their lands and have become violent over it but what has Canada done? they cordoned off areas and then negotiated, they didn't go in and slaughter civilians and infrastructure to destabilize the extremists
that's not what the palestinians want though they just want their own state and to run it freely and without the settlements
Hamas may want more than that but the governing Likud party of Israel doesn't want 2 states either... the party which is currently bombing Gaza into rubble... hmm where is your recognition of that?
But no one is on the side of Hamas here so...
Lame response.
Canada has never faced the type of organized resistance (and frankly outright unreasonableness) from the Aboriginal population as Israel faces in Palestine.
Essentially what you're saying is that Israel should just cordon off some areas and negotiate - correct? Do you think they have not attempted to do this??? That was about 500 steps ago.
Fortunately, the people we conquered usually set up road blocks to prevent us from building new golf courses for a few weeks - as oppose to smuggling rockets in from Russia through Arctic tunnels and blowing up coffee shops on Robson St.
So again, address the actual parallel I proposed if its not too hard to wrap your brain around.
As for your lack of knowledge about what Hamas wants. Here you go:
The Palestinians have been offered their own state a number of times over recent history. Every time they refused and shed more blood of their enemy.
They can't expect to say now, 'We want what you offered us 70 years ago, just ignore all the shit that's happened in the duration.' They don't have that kind of leverage with Israel.
Its now a propaganda game. The Palestinians think they will eventually be rescued by the international community and the Jews will be expelled from the lands. That is the only way they could ever really hope to 'win.' They are not silly enough to think they might 'accidentally' defeat the Israeli military. And if they shoot rockets into Israel for the next 500 years and kill 5000 people, they will have accomplished nothing.
There is already a ton of antisemitism sprouting up in Europe the past few weeks, and all over the world for that matter. So it's not a completely ridiculous strategy.
Unfortunately, you are a pawn in this big propaganda game if you choose to look at this whole complex mess as 'Israel should stop killing people in Gaza, and give them their freedom, they are monsters!'
I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CELICAland
Posts: 25,666
Thanked 10,387 Times in 3,913 Posts
Failed 1,390 Times in 625 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane
Essentially what you're saying is that Israel should just cordon off some areas and negotiate - correct? Do you think they have not attempted to do this??? That was about 500 steps ago.
Israel should leave the Palestinians alone and stop controlling/limiting every step of their lives and cease in encroaching on what land they do have...but no that was never 500 steps ago
Quote:
As for your lack of knowledge about what Hamas wants. Here you go:
There's no lack of knowledge here, again no one is on the side of Hamas here their tactics are abhorrent and they don't seem to care about those who've put their faith in them.
But you also have to recognize and quit ignoring that the governing Likud party doesn't want Palestine to have their own state in either the West Bank or Gaza nor have they ever wanted the Palestinians to be assimilated into Israel as it would conflict with their national identity so what are they seeking? for Palestinians to be completely expelled from Gaza & the West Bank? Likud Charter (covered in this thread already but i'll repeat it for you Netanyahu seemed to recognize a need for a 2 state policy but has recently rejected that notion)
Quote:
Its now a propaganda game. The Palestinians think they will eventually be rescued by the international community and the Jews will be expelled from the lands. That is the only way they could ever really hope to 'win.' They are not silly enough to think they might 'accidentally' defeat the Israeli military. And if they shoot rockets into Israel for the next 500 years and kill 5000 people, they will have accomplished nothing.
The palestinians? no Hamas thinks that though else the West Bank would be doing the same
Quote:
There is already a ton of antisemitism sprouting up in Europe the past few weeks, and all over the world for that matter. So it's not a completely ridiculous strategy.
and Islamaphobia is even worse in Europe
Quote:
Unfortunately, you are a pawn in this big propaganda game if you choose to look at this whole complex mess as 'Israel should stop killing people in Gaza, and give them their freedom, they are monsters!'
Unfortunately the facts speak for themselves and Israel needs to stop collectively punishing and targeting civilians
How about giving the West Bank statehood and showing Gaza they could have the same if they played ball? but no again the Likud don't want to leave their illegal settlements and they do not want Palestinians to have statehood
As you say societies grow and mature and I believe with that maturity a realization is attained (hindsight) and that maturity has shown us that the actions of our ancestors when it came to First Nations was abhorrent hence the amends and different tactics taken today
That experience can be passed down to the next generation how well it is learned is another matter...isn't that what parenting is? do all parents fail?
yeah but if you (and others) were in their shoes, you would think you'd be able to change it by doing what you felt was right... which would be to take actions into your own hands and do it the only way that makes sense at the time. fight.
just like you shouldn't drink and drive, but everyone does, at least once... at least until the roadblocks scare them or they get caught or they hit someone.
Just like you shouldn't litter. but u still did or perhaps still do.
Just like you shouldn't go to the casino cuz 99% of people lose money there. But casinos still exist cuz everyone still goes at least once.
If you were put in their scenario, in their shoes, you'd do the same thing.
It's easy to tell a drug addict to stop using drugs. or to tell a youngin they shouldn't drink or drive, or shouldn't throw garbage out the window. or whatever.
you go lecture the rebels and leaders of those organizations to learn from our past. to not repeat the same mistakes.
In their heads, they already know all those mistakes and what they entail. But they, like all people, are doing this for the first time in their lives, and they, like everyone set on doing something, are delusional and think they'll have some chance, some hope of winning or attaining some result that our ancestors couldn't achieve. cuz they think they're more special, smarter, they're better than the people of the past.
but we're not.
failed children of failed parents, usually lead a life of misery, never prospering, and will probably die an early death. Fighting and struggling uphill their whole lives.... the successful children will dominate in every field, and push them out of the picture over time.
Failed nations lead the same existence. never prospering, will collapse and fade off the face of the planet after a horrible fight and struggle to find their identity... the successful nations will dominate in every field, and push them out of the picture over time.
the only difference is the scale in how long it takes. many nations and empires have risen and fallen in the past. today is no different.
I don't see the jews ever being in a position that they were during ww2. that is a mistake they will not make again for generations to come. as for their enemies... the jews have prospered in almost every aspect of existence compared to the nations that surround them in a very short time. Maybe it is the surrounding nations that don't learn. Maybe it is they, that should let themselves be assimilated or surrender. or they can continue to fight. cuz you know, they think they can win or something.
like a guy that should obviously fold in a game of poker, but doesnt...we all see those times where the zealous delusional mindset takes over. Hope, stubbornness. Thinking you can prove the world otherwise. Thinking your special, that you deserve more.
There are bigger forces that dominate, the smart ones that do learn from the past... will always let themselves be assimilated or submit. Living a life under another identity, is always better than fighting a never ending fight to support your own cause. Living, is always better than dying. It's never worth fighting and dying for some idealistic value that only exists in your own head.
And if you disagree with that statement for whatever reason, then you'd do the same thing they would do. Fight.
So really... what would you do? rally your fellow citizens of the gaza strip and sit at the borders peacefully and rally for the right to join israel and obey their way of life... or what? sit there in peace as they encroach on your land? you know some motherfucker will snap and fight back and rally other people to follow him. It's just the way it is man. Israel has no reason to back off or submit. They are the ones in power there. Never mind what is "right" or what virtues you're standing up for...
big mother fucker pushes you out of the way and is intent on doing what he's gonna do. You gonna bow and let him walk by, or are you gonna stand there and get pummelled and hope you can win?
see what i'm getting at? either you're a pussy or you fight. you're a pussy, or potential death. either you're a pussy or you can stand up for what you believe and show them whatsup. show them that you're not gonna be pushed around you're not gonna back down.
guess what's happening.
there is an option. there ALWAYS was an option. just fucking surrender. just fucking give up. and obey the dominant forces laws and values. adopt their way. and there will be peace.
but no. everyone will always stand up and fight for what they want. they never wanna be seen bowing down and submitting.. and "admitting" they're wrong. ego. always. gets. in. the. way. period.
it only takes a small group of people that think that way, to make it bad for everyone else. the option is there, peace=giving up. just give up. just fucking give up. Raise the god damn white flag.
Japan did. sure did save them a lot of death. They're basically bitches of the USA now. But hey, they're prospering and they didn't get a 3rd nuke dropped on them... i think it's a very fair trade. Giving up and surrendering was the best thing they did...
in a way we are all failed parents. or destined to be failed parents because of this birth/death cycle. or we can just look at it not as failure, but as part of the perpetual cycle of existence. it is what it is. it exists because that is an integral part of why we continue to exist.
i am sure the great philosophers of 5000 years ago, had the very same debate we are having today. the great generals of the past all had the same strategies and thoughts of the great generals today. politicians, artists, engineers, inventors, you name it... nothing has changed. it's the same vicious cycle, painted in a different color, played at a slightly different pace.
like an old fucker with alzheimers! he keeps doing the same shit over and over and over again cuz he can't fucking remember the experience of his past. even if others tell him. even if he reads about himself. he'll just forget and try to do it again. that's exactly what we are. cant remember anything before our own lives.
ya get my drift?
Last edited by Ulic Qel-Droma; 07-31-2014 at 02:17 AM.
I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CELICAland
Posts: 25,666
Thanked 10,387 Times in 3,913 Posts
Failed 1,390 Times in 625 Posts
I get that, i can agree with what you said
But I don't see how we can just standby and let one side slaughter the other, with us knowing better (and honestly Jews as a people should know better given recent history)
you speak of capitulating to Israel even if they may be the big bad bully here well that's essentially the tactic that the West Bank has been taking and what has come of it? the big bad bully is just taking more and more out of them and not letting up; sure they're not slaughtering them by force but they're still doing so through encroachment and control
it sounds like you can understand why Hamas is fighting even though you view it as a failed fight, and it sounds like you can agree that israels tactics are wrong...i can agree with that
but what i cant agree with is us just sitting by and letting them sort it out through violence, we wouldn't be humane if we did (even if you view violence is being human)
anyway i won't be back for a couple weeks so I guess this thread can die down with comments by the circle jerkers over the violence but i imagine this thread and the situation will still be around when i get back
also if anyone wants to watch some firsthand video of the events (i know you guys hate on VICE but no one else is providing footage like this that i can find on youtoobs). Some of the eye-witness interviews I've watched recount people claiming israeli soldiers stormed into their house, rummaged through everything, and proceeded to urinate inside peoples homes/on the Koran -- I know Hamas poses a real threat to israelis but you can't help but think there's a large religious motivation behind this too
90% of Hamas' rockets get intercepted by the iron dome, the majority of Israelis are living in a 'safe' environment
there's still single Palestinians trying to mount attacks from within Israel but they don't really get far. Here's a clip to the last 'attack' within Israel:
I was talking to some pro-palastenians protestor and they mentioned that Isreal has occupied their land and the borders today are not what was agreed to some int'l law. Anyone know of this? Any images of the int'l borders then and what it is today?
__________________
Sometimes we tend to be in despair when the person we love leaves us, but the truth is, it's not our loss, but theirs, for they left the only person who couldn't give up on them.
Make the effort and take the risk..
"Do what you feel in your heart to be right- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't." - Eleanor Roosevelt
bbc reporting that 18 rockets sent from Gaza immediately at the end of the cease fire bc israel didn't do x, y, and z.... israel now fucking gaza over with a rocket bombardment.
now, i don't know what's going on there, none of us do, but it sounds like gaza is the little brother that you're not meant to hit, but he comes up hits you, and then you respond by smacking him and knocking him out.
as i've said before, every time gaza sends a rocket, it gives israel free reign to send thousands of rockets in - this just won't end until someone becomes the bigger man... that won't be israel.
what a clusterfuck, why are humans such fucking retards.
bbc reporting that 18 rockets sent from Gaza immediately at the end of the cease fire bc israel didn't do x, y, and z.... israel now fucking gaza over with a rocket bombardment.
now, i don't know what's going on there, none of us do, but it sounds like gaza is the little brother that you're not meant to hit, but he comes up hits you, and then you respond by smacking him and knocking him out.
as i've said before, every time gaza sends a rocket, it gives israel free reign to send thousands of rockets in - this just won't end until someone becomes the bigger man... that won't be israel.
what a clusterfuck, why are humans such fucking retards.
Imagine that your little brother is saying "I will fucking end you if you don't give me what I want" and proceeds to annoy the shit out of you in the analogy you used. Your natural response is to defend yourself from this until he stops or you take the big step and just knock him the fuck out if he pushes one too many buttons. And then your mom gets mad.
I'm pro peace too but the way these two negotiate, they will keep fighting until there's some concessions from both sides and NOT pulling shit like firing rockets minutes after a ceasefire ends.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!
