Red light ticket

[nsx042003]

This is infuriating. A red light ticket that I do not deserve, because, my light was a stale green.

This happened at an intersection near New Westminster. I was traveling west bound on Stewardson way, and at the intersection 5th ave, an east bound unmarked SUV turned on its lights and made a u-turn stopping a car in front of me. I didn't think much of it because i thought the cars were going plenty fast in front and so I switch lane to move past them, but he signaled me to pull over as well.
Perplexed at this point wondering wtf i did wrong, he came over to me and immediately demanded my driver's licence. I gave and asked what's the deal? He said I ran a solid Red light, along with 4 other cars. I'm pretty upset at this point because A) I know I can't argue with a cop because it's useless, and B) where is my car cam!!! Yeah..I don't have one....looks like I should invest...

Anyway, I was pretty done in, and so I drove off in anger.

But I cooled down and figured, why don't I go back to that intersection and see how this intersection worked. Lo and behold, East bound traffic can have a red light while West bound being completely green. I took a small video of it just in case.

Think I have a case here? Because honest to fuck, it was goddamn Green, do judges take video evidence? and do I get a court date by going into ICBC and say I want to dispute?

I really hate it when i'm being wrongfully accused and have no power to say so. I didn't really like cops' attitude and his demeanor of "I'm the law, I say so here."

[320icar]

if you have logical evidence of the officer being in the wrong and present in a mature manner to the judge, i dont see why you wouldn't have a fair fighting chance.

[hchang]

Just outta curiousity on the ticket does it say it's issued by New West Policr Service or RCMP?

[Rich Sandor]

Cops do make mistakes like everyone else. You can politely call the detachment and try speaking with the officer to ask if he is willing to revisit the intersection and cancel the ticket, if that proves impossible within the 30 day limit, just dispute the ticket.

[zulutango]

So you and 4 other cars all made the same mistake...or the Cop made the same mistake about you and all the other cars? That is the point you are going to have to have accepted by the JP to get off the ticket.

[meme405]

Did he ticket all 4 cars or just you?

[nsx042003]

Originally Posted by hchang

Just outta curiousity on the ticket does it say it's issued by New West Policr Service or RCMP?

Not sure. ticket says organization: Integrated Road Safety Unit - GV

[nsx042003]

Originally Posted by Rich Sandor

Cops do make mistakes like everyone else. You can politely call the detachment and try speaking with the officer to ask if he is willing to revisit the intersection and cancel the ticket, if that proves impossible within the 30 day limit, just dispute the ticket.

I might do that, but it's kinda tough trying to figure out the officer's ID number on the ticket, It's hardly legible.

[nsx042003]

Originally Posted by zulutango

So you and 4 other cars all made the same mistake...or the Cop made the same mistake about you and all the other cars? That is the point you are going to have to have accepted by the JP to get off the ticket.

Yup. That's why I'm hitting myself for not having a camera. Honestly, I can see why he would think we all ran red lights, because logically, if one side of traffic has red, the opposite will also have a red, but due to the design of that intersection, this isn't always true.

He only managed to have me and one other car pulled over

[jeedee]

Am I the only one here that finds it ridiculous that the cop thought/thinks FOUR cars ran a red?

[Jmac]

Originally Posted by jeedee

Am I the only one here that finds it ridiculous that the cop thought/thinks FOUR cars ran a red?

Five (OP and 4 others) ...

[ancient_510]

Originally Posted by nsx042003

Not sure. ticket says organization: Integrated Road Safety Unit - GV

IRSU is made up of police from many departments across the province.

This is speculation, but, I bet you got an IRSU member from somewhere that isn't Burnaby or New West and probably isn't familiar with that intersection. A NWPD officer may have been more familiar with the area and may have known that the traffic signal may operate in an atypical manner like you described.

[jeedee]

Originally Posted by Jmac

Five (OP and 4 others) ...

even more ridiculous...

I mean I can understand if it was a car or two running a yellow/red....but five?

Am I missing the point lol

[tiger_handheld]

maybe slightly off topic: Is it possible for red light cameras to capture you from the front? Ie. I'm traveling South to North, there is a camera point at traffic going from South to North, but there is no camera for North to South. Can the camera capture from the front or does it only work if the camera is behind you?

[Brad Fuel]

One of the things the officer will need to explain is the timing and order of the lights. They way you're explaining it, they don't seem to be in sync for east and west bound traffic. If the officer is basing the ticket on that belief and you have video evidence to the contrary that may be a strong argument.

I don't know the intersection you speak of and I don't know how familiar the officer is with that intersection. I would like to know what he knows first though. Court is not about winning and losing. If you feel the ticket was issued in error and you have a defence then dispute it. That's the proper point of the system.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by jeedee

even more ridiculous...

I mean I can understand if it was a car or two running a yellow/red....but five?

Am I missing the point lol

I've seen it. When I lived in Pitt Meadows, we'd regularly see 3+ cars blowing solid reds on Lougheed Hwy. at Harris Rd.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by Soundy

I've seen it. When I lived in Pitt Meadows, we'd regularly see 3+ cars blowing solid reds on Lougheed Hwy. at Harris Rd.

Come to think of it, that's not even the worst...

Dewdney Trunk westbound, where it merges into Lougheed westbound, just before the Pitt Bridge... there's a red light there, two lanes... I've seen the light go red and cars (and trucks) just keep on flowing through like the light doesn't even exist. The light for Lougheed will turn green, cars will start moving, and the flow from DTR still doesn't stop. I've seen guys on Dewdney have to slam on their brakes at that light to avoid hitting the Lougheed traffic. Five or six cars through the red is nothing... and that's in each of two lanes, meaning 10+ cars through a red in one shot. Not all the time... but it's far from uncommon.

Go park down there at morning rush hour and see if I'm exaggerating. And don't forget to watch for the dozen or so jumping the line in the westbound BUS-ONLY lane, too....

[CCA-Dave]

OP: Based on the information you provide, IMHO, it's worth disputing the ticket. The big question, is whether you've ever disputed a ticket before? The defense for this one hinges quite strongly on the questions you ask of the officer, and how you work the answers he provides. If you're not familiar with traffic court, or haven't been successful defending yourself previously...consider hiring an attorney. Not one of those traffic ticket companies, an attorney with some skills.

-Dave

[hchang]

Originally Posted by Soundy

I've seen it. When I lived in Pitt Meadows, we'd regularly see 3+ cars blowing solid reds on Lougheed Hwy. at Harris Rd.

Yeah but that whole stretch on lougheed everybody goes 90-100 km/h speed limit at 80 km/h with very stretched apart lights. And the delay seems longer than regular city intersections.

The intersection in question should only be 50 km/h?

[jayribs]

I would dispute it mate. If you have video evidence of WHY you made the decision to go on the light and it makes logical sense they may give you a break. I sincerely doubt 5 of you decided to beat a SOLID red light. good luck mate.

[nsx042003]

How long does it take to get a court date? It's been a month and a half since i went to ICBC for a dispute...

[Soundy]

It can take up to a year.

[maxam]

Always worth disputing any ticket. You usually have to go to a courthouse to register the ticket that you are going to dispute. Then they send you a court date in the mail. This could take months or you might never get anything at all. (happened to me)
If you do get something it'll set a court date for you. That could also be months away, even years. Then you get your own evidence, and go to court. Then the policeman gives his evidence and you get to question him after, and then you give your evidence. (Sometimes the policeman simply doesn't turn up and you win!)
In a lot of cases you only need to cast some doubt on what happened and the judge might be on your side, or at least he might reduce the ticket penalty.
One last thing, the most boring thing for the judge is traffic court, so try to present an interesting case and you could win over the judge who may ask the officer questions himself and then toss out your ticket. (also happened to me)
Good luck against the BC cash cow!

[wing_woo]

Originally Posted by jayribs

I would dispute it mate. If you have video evidence of WHY you made the decision to go on the light and it makes logical sense they may give you a break. I sincerely doubt 5 of you decided to beat a SOLID red light. good luck mate.

Also, if you are able to, go back and take video at the intersection from different angles to show how the lights work. If the officer says he was at a red light on the other side and saw you guys run the light based on that, then take video of the light being green for your direction and at the same time ensure you get the opposite side in the frame as well to show they were red (ie. no one's moving).

If I'm not mistaken, I believe when your light is green, then the right turn light for the perpendicular traffic is green, which is why the cop's light would still be red. Show how the lights work in traffic cam and that would make a good argument, especially when 5 cars roll through the light like there was nothing wrong.

[zulutango]

[
One last thing, the most boring thing for the judge is traffic court, so try to present an interesting case and you could win over the judge who may ask the officer questions himself and then toss out your ticket. (also happened to me)
Good luck against the BC cash cow![/QUOTE]


Having spent almost 30 years prosecuting in traffic court, I can assure you that traffic court is anything but boring!!!! Traffic court JPs do nothing but that, I know several of them and we all agreed that the stories, lies, concoctions, BS and fairy stories, sprinkled with a smidgeon of occasional truth, made for very entertaining times. In the immortal words of Judge Gordon Seabright...send in the next guilty bastard.