Why I will not be keeping my 997 GT3, and why "shitty" cars are better cars...

[jasonturbo]

Originally Posted by boostfever

"Why I will not be keeping my 997 GT3, and why a faster and more expensive version of the GT3 is a better car... "




I like where you're going with this though.

I know what you're saying.. but... it's GREEN!

[white rocket]

jasonturbo: I like your style

[TouringTeg]

Is your GT3 listed anywhere for sale?

You are looking at a big premium for a green GT3 RS. Tough to find.

May as well go with a GT3 RS 4.0

GT3 RS 4.0 - Rennlist Discussion Forums

[jasonturbo]

No my car will just rot in storage till summer, I will likely find a green RS before
I sell my lowly white base GT3.

[tofu1413]

lowly, base GT3 with no club sport package

[knight604]

good choice jason, i think we can be good friends if you move here

[Z3guy]

Jason turbo, the price gap between 07-08 gt3rs and 2010 gt3rs is only $25-$35k, however the performance gap is huge. The engine mounts, and hp gains are worth the price diff imo. My 996gt3 with headers, cats, cup throttle body, intake, and software, could pull on a stock 997.1 rs on the track. However, don't get me wrong, Kermit the frog 997.1 rs are still drool cars, but I would ante up an get the .2

[ts14]

Originally Posted by knight604

good choice jason, i think we can be good friends if you move here

u have friends?

[knight604]

no , he will be my first friend.

[jasonturbo]

Originally Posted by knight604

good choice jason, i think we can be good friends if you move here

Originally Posted by ts14

u have friends?

Originally Posted by knight604

no , he will be my first friend.

We can all be friends.. assuming you're going to let me play with your tits etc.

If you don't have tits…

[herman]

Jason, are shitty cars not better? What has changed since your original post?

[knight604]

i have pecks , not tits if you want to grasp.

[jasonturbo]

Originally Posted by herman

Jason, are shitty cars not better? What has changed since your original post?

What don't you understand? The car is GREEN!

[JD¹³]

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

I have decided what will replace my GT3, srs.

Spoiler!

[DontFrontOnMe]

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

Hello RS,

*Disclaimer: This is all a matter of opinion

First of all, a bit of a history lesson, I have owned a number of vehicles, more than most (Possibly even more than TOFU!), many of which have been modified, some of which include; (In order of most recent)


2005 STI, current winter car, about to receive bunch of mods this week!


2004 BMW M3, lots of parts, loved this car.


2011 STI, lots of parts, big dissapointment.



2001 DC2-R, lots of parts, super clean, the BEST CAR I HAVE EVER OWNED.


1999 EM1; B18C-R, coils, typical ricer honda interior bits


2008 Civic Si, not a bad DD.


2001 S2k, basically stock, such a great car.




1998 DC2-R, lots of parts, did N/A build, pure nightmare, #regretmodding.

Just as a general comment, this is only going back to 2009-ish, prior to that I owned a large variety of modded/swapped Honda's and Nissan's. I am also leaving out a number of recent vehicles such as my K20A2 EP3 and 1997 DC2-R. I will not even bother touching on all the vehicles that belonged to other people that I have had the chance to drive.

Moving right along!... Just a few months ago I purchased this rather immaculate 2007 Porsche GT3;


2007 Porsche 911 GT3 for sale, 6-Speed Manual, Vancouver, B.C., Canada, Weissach <---- more pics

This purchase was significant for me for the following reasons;
- The price tag of 100k, I am not rich, nor do I come from a rich family etc.
- I have wanted one of these cars for the better part of 5 years.
- Because race car.

Now for the part where I explain how the GT3 did not live up to my expectations... or how it exceeded them in an unacceptable manner :s Simply put, the car is TOO FAST.

Right now a number of you are sitting there looking at your screen saying "Well it's a GT3, what the #*$& did you think it would be, slow?"... Yeah yeah yeah, I know, just wait, I'll explain.

It is difficult to enjoy the car on the street for the following reasons;
- Acceleration: First gear is no fun in any car, second gear winds out to 120km/hr +, so if you feel like wringing the car out, you are playing a very risky game with the Police, and potentially the safety of yourself and others.
- Handling: You can take any turn in the city at 100km/hr+ and you will never even be touching on the capabilities of the chassis/suspension, and you feel this, it all feels very boring at any speed less than ludicrous.
- Braking: You can't legally achieve any speed that will even get these brakes warmed up.

Overall: Yes this car is an amazing machine, but you can only actually experience this amazement on a RACE TRACK, period. Perhaps if I lived near VIR and could track my car 10+ times per summer and afford the crazy costs associated with Porsche race car maintenance and repair it would make more sense.

So what does it all mean and why did I feel the need to share this?

I suspect that many of you are similar to myself, you see a GT3/Lambo/Ferrari and you assume driving a car like that can provide an experience that is unmatched by your Honda/Nissan/Toyota/Etc. piece of shit. Well yes, it can provide an experience that is unmatched by your moms G35, but, only if you have access to a world class race track, or are willing to risk losing your license and killing bystanders on the reg.

Now on the other hand, let's talk about your piece of shit and the experience it provides.
- Your car is slow, you say things like "I'm going to break a 15 second quarter with this new skunk2 header" (No, it won't btw)... though your car is slow, it's also poorly built for high speed, so it offers the sensation of going fast!
- Most corners and off ramps are exciting, that shitty suspension geometry makes it feel very unstable and exciting, cause it is!
- Braking, the odd time you have to get on your brakes, it's a constant reminder that you need a BBK! #exciting

Simply put, your car that costs <15k is much more fun on the street every day than a 100K GT3 or any real super car etc.

So for all of you people on RS with shitty old imports, don't covet other peoples expensive cars, chances are they don't have nearly as much fun as you do Yeah they're probably ballin' and get more pussy than you do, but hey, #tinder has got your back. I swear that I would have more fun in Westophers E36, MB's MR2, lexluthor09's S2k, TRD RS200's EK9, long's ITR, TOFU's Fiat (Assuming you still own it), Tjalmeida's BRZ (OR was it FRS?), Snails' EF (**SORRY!**), etc than I do in the GT3, or any other car with that level of performance.

Anyway, I know this is a mess, but I'm strongly considering getting back into a slower car so that I can once again enjoy driving fast. Of all the cars I have owned and driven, the one that stands out most to me was my Yellow ITR We were so perfect for each other.

Discuss, has anyone else experienced the same feelings? Cars that perform too well to be enjoyed on the street???

BRB buying ITR.

Jason, don't live in Edmonton like a queer where the roads are paved pot holes, and you might enjoy a GT3. Fuck sakes. Woman.

[dared3vil0]

^ Try not to quote all the pics lmao

[underscore]

Quoting the longest post of the thread and then adding a weak ass insult is a recipe for failure.

[flagella]

Wait, did I miss something?

So I guess the summary of this thread is basically "Hey guys, I'm selling my GT3 because cheaper cars will offer the same amount of fun and allow you to push harder on the street, but I'll be looking to buy a GT3RS because fuck you."

[jasonturbo]

Originally Posted by flagella

Wait, did I miss something?

So I guess the summary of this thread is basically "Hey guys, I'm selling my GT3 because cheaper cars will offer the same amount of fun and allow you to push harder on the street, but I'll be looking to buy a GT3RS because fuck you."

"The heart wants what the heart wants."

- some homo

[Marco911]

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

"The heart wants what the heart wants."

This pleases me. Time to change your name to Jason911 in my honor, son.

[Z3guy]

this is an interesting article that most track porsche guys have been saying for a longtime, including Hans Stuck. I am still going to trade my M3 for a 991 in a year or so because I need the backseat for my kid, but if I didn't, I would love to get a cayman gt3rs.....


It Won’t Make Any Difference If the Cayman Is Faster Than The 911
Posted on November 5, 2014 by Vicente Esteve

You feel the fatigue on your shoulders after a long enduring day. The sweat of your hands has created half a dozen blisters that ache like bites from an angry rat. Your hair is compacted so tightly its as if a solid woolly sphere would cover your cranium. At a distance, you can smell and feel the heat that the 8 Thousand dollar Carbon Ceramic brakes expel from your Carrera 2S. As the sun still glistens on your 911’s Guards Red painted hips besides your white helmet you think that it was an amazing run. Your fifth track day on the gorgeous Richmond raceway, where you have learned about grip, braking and balance to really make your car work around those curves. Each practice has been an improvement and each improvement is going to result into that stopwatch stating your time. As you see the stopwatch you read 2:13. 2 Seconds quicker than last time, and oh boy are you excited. And just as you start congratulating yourself comes that guy Chad in the Cayman who does a 2:10. And you know what?

You won’t give a damn about it.



Porsche is currently in a situation where they have so many excellent products that they have to literally make some of them a bit worse in order for others to continue striving. Im not talking about how they are straining themselves from making the Macan perform better than the Boxster (Although it could) but with their most iconic sports car and the over-achieving little sod it has as a brother. The Cayman’s mid engine configuration and the balance it brings with it has made it into such a brilliant machine Porsche has always toned it down for fear of uncrowning the king. From the first generation its flat six has always had just enough horsepower to be slower than the base 911 and just enough grunt to never be able to catch it either. With this second generation of the Cayman and the 991 911 its business as usual and Porsche should stop doing this because it wont make a difference if the 911 is the slower car.



Do you know how many people see the Camaro Z/28 and know it will pull more lateral G than both the Nissan GTR and the 911 Turbo S? Do you know how many people that bought a 2014 Mercedes Benz S65 AMG know that their car does 0-60 0.1 seconds slower than the $140K less expensive CLA45 AMG? And I am not even introducing a Viper VS. Hellcat comparison. What is the most surprising fact though is how the Cayman R is already faster than a 991 Carrera 2 and 4. Surprise surprise Porsche, you already did it. All these facts affirm that the effort in keeping the Cayman in the shadow of the 911 has been pointless. Its seated in each car for hours behind the wheel on different roads where you’ll notice the difference. The numbers don’t matter anymore, its about how the mid-engined car feels compared to what the rear-engined car feels and that is much more comparable. So what if the new Cayman gets to the chicane faster, or if the 911 gets the quicker time in its chronometer, these 2 cars feel completely different and offer their own unique driving styles. It’s that knowledge Porsche has to make a car behave that will give both the Cayman and the 911 a good opportunity in the eyes of its potential buyer. Think of it this way, each car will make a case for itself with each of their personalities.



Let’s also not forget how many cars have used power to lure buyers from Porsches. F-Type Coupe R, Corvette, GTR and many others that offer up to 100+ HP more than the 911 and guess what. The 911 still sells, still wins comparisons and still offers the driver feedback that the other cars may lack. Same story with the Cayman which could be pitted against the C7 or the M4 and is still praised by the people who road-tests it. Porsche has always been more than just brute force, and it shows in pretty much every car they make. Or, if you do want a Porsche that gives the brutal force, there is the Turbo S that I have a pretty good guess won’t be slower than whatever Cayman that Porsche may later build.



Then, we get to a word that PR people love to use almost as much as Emotional. Heritage. Heritage is still the #1 reason the 911 will soldier on with its impeccable reputation. Ask any adult what Porsche would they want and they will likely say 911. Cayman 4S PDK GTS Chrono-Pack? No. The 911 will always be the go-to Porsche for everyone, and the one that has kept the companies’ tradition the most. Its as if the 911 is a classic brief underwear. Its the underwear everyone knows and many men prefer. The Cayman is a Boxer Brief. Its the new thing, that may even perform better at its intended purpose than the classic brief. And, it will have its cult of followers who want the newest, trendiest product offered. But in the end, Porsche has based itself on the classic brief and a large number of its buyers want just that. Even if in the end, the Boxer Briefs are the better bet. The name Porsche will always be associated with 911, no matter how better or worse it is than its competitors or even its siblings and it will always have a buyer.

​

​Making the Cayman quicker than the 911 also gives Porsche the chance to do something they just love. Charging more money! It really surprises me that, with the way Porsche manages their lineup, they haven’t come out with an even faster Cayman that would force buyers to give more outlay. In the end, a car brand is a business and this is a great strategy to keep the business as successful as it is.

We are probably not realizing what a more powerful, better performing Porsche Cayman could and would be.

A (more) Reliable Ferrari?

The most Liveable Mid Engined Car?

One of the Best Performing Sports Cars?

The closest thing to a modern stick-shift Ferrari?

A reliable, manual, quality brimmed supercar?

Don’t be afraid of the best Cayman yet. The 911 will keep its own character, will still be the esteemed Porsche by everyone, and will sell as effectively as it does today. Numbers aren’t everything, and the smile on your face will be the perfect evidence of that. ​

​

[Z3guy]

here are some of the comments from the article that was posted on jalopnik;

1. But,

"I paid more for this, so it must be faster than the cheaper model"

-everyone who actually buys 911s

2. The Cayman is not, and never will be, a Ferrari.
21Reply
Vicente-Esteve
Vicente-Esteve
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Vicente-EsteveBrian Silvestro
Today 6:14pm

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1. I don't think people who think that way will do something to prove that their car is faster (track days, drag strips). They will own the car with that thought.

People who do know will know that the Cayman can be faster than the 911.

2. Alright I took it too far, but it does share qualities of a "supercar"
1Reply
BrianSilvestro
Brian Silvestro
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Brian SilvestroVicente-Esteve
Today 6:15pm

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1. You're generalizing
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Vicente-Esteve
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Vicente-EsteveBrian Silvestro
Today 6:20pm

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Well yes, because, it would mean that the person only based their purchase on price. Sometimes, higher price doesn't mean a better product.
1Reply
BrianSilvestro
Brian Silvestro
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Brian SilvestroVicente-Esteve
Today 6:27pm

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But not all people think the same way.
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kvnkiley
anothermiatafanboy
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anothermiatafanboyBrian Silvestro
Today 6:43pm

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Not all people think the same way? Quite the profound conclusion to have reached, ya dingleberry. Give the guy a break, he wrote a really nice article.
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Vicente-Esteve
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Vicente-Esteveanothermiatafanboy
18 minutes ago

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Haha thanks. But we are all free to say what we want. And I probably went to far to calling the Cayman something close to a Ferrari. Either way, discussion is good.
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thespunbearing
Travis - King of Spun Bearings
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Travis - King of Spun BearingsVicente-Esteve
Today 5:46pm

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My point exactly. Put the GT2 RS motor into a Cayman, and it would be the first Porsche I'd ever want.

The Cayman is just so much better looking as well.
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Vicente-Esteve
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Vicente-EsteveTravis - King of Spun Bearings
Today 6:15pm

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Looks are subjective, but people who HATE Porsche because of the 911 will adore this faster Cayman.
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blogenfreude01
Steve in Manhattan
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Today 5:50pm

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This is spot on. I don't think most Porsche owners know or care whether their car is the fastest or the slowest in the lineup. Nor do they care that there might (at some point) be, say, a Boxster that you can spec out to be faster than a Carrera 4. They want the car they want - the numbers are secondary. If cost were no object, I'd get a Boxster with everything. Love the dynamics. If only the 911 were on the menu, I'd get a Targa. If there was some version of some lesser model that was .2 faster in the 1/4 mile, so what?
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Vicente-Esteve
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Vicente-EsteveSteve in Manhattan
Today 6:17pm

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Exactly! Numbers do need to exist because we like the cold facts. Also, it gives carmakers the opportunity to make headlines. But, a Porsche is more than numbers and also why for some people the Cayman is a better Porsche than a 911 Convertible Turbo.
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blogenfreude01
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Today 6:26pm

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And slower cars can sometimes be fun to drive because you can get them nearer the limit - Scion/Subaru twins for instance. I think ultimately the feel of the thing is what does it. The one (admittedly mid-90s) 911 I drove did not compare, in my mind, to an early 2000s Boxster - it just felt so planted. I think that bromide about "people who drive Boxsters can't afford 911s" is rubbish. Knew a law partner who loved his late 90s Boxster - he was clearing more than a million a year and drove everything in the range. He chose what he wanted, not what he thought he needed to be seen in ....
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Vicente-Esteve
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Vicente-EsteveSteve in Manhattan
19 minutes ago

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That is a perfect example of the point I am making, and I only have been driven a new model Boxster. The owner had a 911 before it (991) and felt it wasn't being used enough, then drove the Boxster and fell in love.
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blogenfreude01
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14 minutes ago

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You can use either car every day, but the Boxster seems more like something you'd rather drive regularly. And I want to say the 911 I drove was the last air-cooled year, but I can't be sure - it was a noisy car.
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bdolan40
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26 minutes ago

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Don't spread this opinion to the masses just yet... Used values on Cayman's are still tantalizingly low and I would like to pick up a used example in a year or so.
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Vicente-Esteve
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Vicente-EsteveB_Dol
7 minutes ago

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I tried to find about the cheapest Cayman you could buy.

18K.

Hmmmmm, that or a new Accent?

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Z3guy

Ask any adult what Porsche would they want and they will likely say 911. Cayman 4S PDK GTS Chrono-Pack? No. The 911 will always be the go-to Porsche for everyone, and the one that has kept the companies’ tradition the most.​

They'll say 911 because that's the only Porsche most people have ever heard of.

[kobe tai]

I need me some oil money

[Ronin]

LOL so you didn't like the GT3 but you're buying a GT3RS?

Love it. Because fuck logic, right?

Hey, first world problems are problems too.