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Firstly I wanted to say that it was a tough decision to post this from my account or anonymously. I’ve read countless ticket dispute threads, and in all of them it seems like the OP has blinders on, or was hiding part of the story. I don’t want to be ridiculed if I am completely out of line here and I truly want to know how I should be handling this. As a disclaimer before the massive wall of text that is about to ensue, I want to accept full responsibility for what I did wrong but I want to make sure it is in the right way and reasonable to what I did wrong. I’m looking for more insight and an outside perspective on this situation. I realize there will be parts of this story that I don’t actually have proof of, so I’m sure that will have an effect on the outcome. Anyways, thank you to those who take the time to read this massive post and give me constructive feedback. I will update when possible or if I realize I’ve missed some points.
The following took place 1 year ago.
I owned a small car with an aftermarket 1 way alarm and remote start feature. This was equipped with the car when I bought it 2 years prior to this incident. This was my daily driver that I used for most of fall, all of winter, and most of spring. During the colder months I would use the remote start 4 to 5 minutes prior to leaving my house, obviously to warm up the car, defrost the windows etc. I did it nearly every morning before work or school, hundreds of times. Many times I would look out the window to the driveway to make sure that the alarm would detect me pressing the button, and to make sure it started. Sometimes I would forget to leave the car in neutral, so the car wouldn’t auto-start, instead the power would shut back down. I witnessed this happen dozens of times right in front of me.
Fast forward to the day of the incident, I was staying at my girlfriend’s house in Burnaby. In the morning I was getting ready for school and to drop her off at work on my way. 5 minutes before leaving as per usual I hit the auto-start on my car. Being a basement suite though I can’t see my car through any windows to the street. 5 minutes later we walked outside to find that my car was gone. I panicked and thought it might have been stolen overnight. I looked up the street though and saw the car was half a block away, probably 40 feet, hopped over the curbed and resting against a bus stop post (in the grass). I was very confused at this point and had no idea what had happened. My first thought was that during the auto-start process, someone may have jumped into my car when they saw it turn on as it unlocks for about 30 seconds before locking again. When they tried to drive away the first time they hit the brakes the car would have shut off and they would have lost all power options (possible steering lock?) and went onto the curb into the bus stop.
This part gets hard to explain because there are so many things happening at once now, so I will tell it from my point of view. We walked up to my car to inspect the damages, the bus post was bent over to about a 45 degree angle, there was no bend in the post, it just shifted in the ground. There were tire tracks and mud dug up where my car had gone onto the curb then stop at the bus post. Right away I pulled my car off the side walk onto the street and got out again to check out the damage. Nothing further on the ground or post, and on my end, my license plate was bent/scraped. No vehicle damage other than that.
My girlfriend needed to get to work right away, but my class wasn’t for another hour-ish, so I decided to bring her to work then I could deal with the situation after. On the way to her work which was about a 10 minute drive, I asked her to look up a city number to report damage to property. She got the number for me, and I figured I’d call when I got over to school which was another 15 minutes away. When I arrived at school, I looked at my phone and had a bunch of missed calls and texts from both my parents. They were asking if I had been in an accident and if I was okay. Right away I knew someone must have called in my plate when they saw the accident, so I called them to tell them I think someone tried to steal my car. My dad then informed me that in fact a person had called the police when they watched my car start itself, then drive up the street on its own and crash into the bus post. My heart sank immediately knowing now that something had happened with my remote start causing my car to roll. My dad was actually quite upset because he received a call from an officer that was apparently treating both him and my mom like crap, telling them they are lying about who is currently driving the car etc. (forgot to mention my dad owns the car, I’m the primary on the insurance, that’s why they got the call not me). Also, I’m going to include the officers’ actions/”attitude” although I know it shouldn’t have any bearing on the outcome of the case.
So my dad tells me I need to call the officer right away and gives me his number. Still in the parking lot of my school I call him immediately. He asks the obvious: Can you explain why somebody called in and said your car was rolling down the street and crashed, and then why you fled after this happened. I explained to him how everything happened, how I remote started my car, and then thought someone attempted to steal it before crashing. I told him that after hearing someone witnessed my car moving with nobody in it, I knew it was a problem with the anti-grind (is that the right term?) or the wiring that prevents my car from starting if it is in gear. I told him it could be possibly that this malfunctioned and my car must have lurched forward in first gear and started rolling. On the phone he told me that there was a mother and child standing at the bus stop and they had to jump out of the way of my car. He also said that if my car pulled a U-turn and drove 7 blocks down to Hastings people could have been killed.
So now I’m sweating, scared, regretful and downright freaking out that I have totally dropped the ball in this situation. The officer told me I needed to meet with him right away so I told him where I was and asked where he would like me to go. We decided on a park 5 minutes away and he said he’d be there shortly.
I head there and park in the lot to wait. About 10 minutes later the officer drives up, doesn’t park in a stall, instead drives in front of me and slams on his brakes. I went to get out of my car to greet him (I didn’t know if I should be doing this or not) but he opened his door and yelled at me to stay in the car. He then walks to me and asks me to roll down my window, takes my DL and insurance, goes back to his car to do his thing. When he comes back we talk about everything that happened. I explained the story again ^exactly how I told it above, so he asks me to test my car. I put the e-brake on, car in first, remote start it. The car tries to start, no kill, lurches forward a couple inches while bogging to stall, instead of stalling it catches and sure enough starts to roll. It was rolling at a speed slow enough it wasn’t displayed on my speedometer. The officer stayed standing while talking to me as I rolled forward ever so slowly. He told me to turn it off and reverse back so I did.
He then took pictures of my car, the damage on the front. In his report he ended up saying the damage to my car was $1000. My front bumper had a crack at the very bottom that is hardly noticeable that happened a year prior to this when the car was lower and I clipped the little cement thing in a parking space. Even though this was on the side not near my plate I guess he assumed it was damage from the post. Even so $1000 had me kind of annoyed, but I thought it wouldn’t make a difference so didn’t say anything.
He brought up me fleeing the scene of an accident, and I told him I had to rush my girlfriend to work, but had the intent to report this to make sure someone fixed the post. He was very upset at this and told me he had fixed the post already, just by pushing it back up, and moving the dirt back into place with his foot. I felt like an idiot for not just doing this myself, I don’t know why I thought there would be more to it than that.
So on to the ticket now (kind of rushing my writing at this point, sorry but I didn’t realize how long this would be). He came back to my window and gave me this big speech again about the mother and child who jumped out of the way, how dangerous this was to others etc. (and I completely agree with him, it actually scares me how much damage this could have done). Then he said that the whole drive over he was thinking about what to charge me with. He thought that fleeing an accident wasn’t enough, and landed on Driving without due care. When I saw the fine and ticket I was definitely bummed but thought it could be so much worse. It was around $300-$350, and I thought: to me it doesn’t matter what he calls it, I made a genuine mistake, I don’t really know how I could have prevented it other than checking the wiring or something, but I will pay this and that will be that.
A couple hours later I look at the ticket and realize driving without due care is 6 penalty points, which is also a $300 fine when I renew my insurance (no other points on my license) In addition to this my license is put under review and could possibly be taken away. At the time I was in school full time, working full time, and lived in a city where it would be impossible to transit to these things and have enough time to do them still. I drive 35-40k a year and it would take a huge toll on me not having a license for any period of time. At this point I thought to myself I need to dispute this ticket, firstly so it’s not a $600+ fine, secondly so my license isn’t in question. Of the few people that I told (obvious bias feedback though), everyone was angry/surprised that the charge he chose was driving without due care, as I was not even in the vehicle, which he even claims to have a witness stating this.
I finally got my court date a couple days ago for this December and I’m trying to decide what approach to take, and what to ask to happen with this charge. I’ve been exploring other things that I would admit to being guilty to, but not sure what would actually work out. My main concern here is still having my license taken away, although I don’t have much on my driving record, I don’t want to take the chance. I’m okay with paying like a $300 fine, although $600 seems excessive
I originally was looking into the fleeing the scene scenario and thought maybe I could ask for this charge instead (does it even work like that? Can they switch it, or is it just an innocent or guilty type thing – I know I have more research to do on how this works.) Upon looking it up though, the usual rule that you must stay at the scene of an accident only applies to when you hit another car. If you hit property of some kind, you must take the proper steps to report this but you don’t need to wait there. Section 83 I believe (saved on other Computer.) Another thought I had was this could be something along the lines of failure to properly maintain vehicle? I haven’t looked up the fine/points for that though.
Basically I’m looking to hear outside perspectives now, am I totally out to lunch on thinking he is out of line with the charge? Is this just a slap on the wrist, or am I correct for wanting a lesser charge. Some general notes are below for things I may have missed.
(These are NOT coles notes)
-E-brake was on, car was on a VERY slight upward hill (facing up, drove up, didn’t roll down the street)Car was in first gear, idling at between 1000 and 1500 rpm (cold start) therefore with the e-brake on it could only be going somewhere around 5kmh (just an estimate and based on the officers’ test)
-I have no idea if there was actually a mother/child at this bus stop, he didn’t say they called in, it was a different witness.
-My past traffic violations are below, all 6 years ago with my N, my Full Class 5 is clean.
-1 Speeding Ticket, 1 Failure to display N, 1 ticket for Tail Light tint.
-I removed the remote from my keychain so I couldn’t use the feature anymore and prevent it from happening again. I have sold the car and the new owner knows of the problem and is aware it needs to be fixed before using the remote start.
Again, thank you to those who take the time out of their day to read this, I truly appreciate it.
Coles:
-Owned a car for 2 years with remote start.
-One morning Remote started, accidentally in first gear and it drove slowly down the block and into a bus post.
-Before I could report damage (minimal), police contact me because of witness
-Meet up with officer to eventually charges me with driving without due care
-Was okay with this ($3XX) felt it was deserved
-Found out its 6 points, license possibly suspended, and $600 after DPP
-Can't be without a license due to where I lived, school, work etc.
-Disputed in hopes of not losing license, still okay with fees/points though
extra notes:
I didn't know leaving it in gear would cause this to happen, from experience it never could start in first gear.
Looking for outside perspectives on what I should actually be charged with, I feel I learned my lesson the minute I found out this happened. Losing my license wouldn't further make me learn a lesson. Thought this could maybe be equal to not properly parking and letting my car roll or something.
These coles notes make it seem a lot worse than I thought it was though...and I doubt anybody will read the full thing now haha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSF22
Every time I'm there I usually see Jgresch's name under "Best Lap Times"
Last edited by Jgresch; 10-16-2014 at 09:39 PM.
Reason: Added coles
For starters, I'm pretty sure by using a remote start you become "in care and control" of the vehicle once you hit that button. Second, just removing the remote doesn't disable the system, you need to remove the fuse or disconnect the remote start wiring. Not so relevant when parking outside, but if the car is ever parked in a garage the remote start needs to be fully disabled on the cars end to prevent a carbon monoxide issue. Third, this is more an an FYI, the remote start won't disable the steering lock, you still need the key for that, so it could only go forward (ish, depends on the wheel orientation), not pull a u turn.
IMO "fleeing an accident" and "driving without due care" aren't really applicable charges, since as you said the accident didn't involve another car, I'd think whatever charges would be applied to a car rolling down a hill or something would be more appropriate, I think you're in violation of MVA 191.2b (turning the wheels on a grade) and maybes 195.1 (vehicle moving on a highway with an obstructed view)? for that.
__________________ 1991 Toyota Celica GTFour RC // 2007 Toyota Rav4 V6 // 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee
1992 Toyota Celica GT-S ["sold"] \\ 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD [sold] \\ 2000 Jeep Cherokee [sold] \\ 1997 Honda Prelude [sold] \\ 1992 Jeep YJ [sold/crashed] \\ 1987 Mazda RX-7 [sold] \\ 1987 Toyota Celica GT-S [crushed]
Quote:
Originally Posted by maksimizer
half those dudes are hotter than ,my GF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevYouUp
reading this thread is like waiting for goku to charge up a spirit bomb in dragon ball z
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good_KarMa
OH thank god. I thought u had sex with my wife. :cry:
The remote start will continue to apply power to the starter until it hits whatever RPM is that tells the computer the engine is running.
There is no anti grind, or other super natural forces that will keep the car from rolling forward when remote start is initiated with the car in gear.. This is why most installers, legally, will not install remote start on a manual car. Autotragic cars obviously do not have this problem. What you could do is put the car in second or third gear instead of first and that should stall the car upon start up keep the car from lurching too far forward.
As for the ticket itself, I feel for you. First off, as I always tell people, phone the office and as for full disclosure. With his notes from that day, you can then see how strong of a case he has with this charge. As underscore said, by setting off the remote start and allowing the car to roll away, it is understandable that the officer felt driving without due care is the appropriate offense.
Officers are humans and they too can respond negatively in emotional situations.
Perhaps you can speak to him before going to court to see if he can change the charge or withdraw the ticket. Basically tell him what you told us today. You learned your lesson. You are truely remorseful and you need your license. You can even go as far as to show him your car and how you had the remote start disabled so that there is no chance of a repeat for this.
Last thing you can do is go to court, and tell the JP that you admit to the offense but ask to waive the 6 pts or have a reduced fine.
__________________ Originally posted by Iceman_19 you should have tried to touch his penis. that really throws them off. Originally posted by The7even SumAznGuy > Billboa Originally posted by 1990TSI SumAznGuy> Internet > tinytrix
Quote:
Originally Posted by tofu1413
and icing on the cake, lady driving a newer chrysler 200 infront of me... jumped out of her car, dropped her pants, did an immediate squat and did probably the longest public relief ever...... steam and all.
This incident is not much different than ghost riding incidents. Those guys get charged with the driving without due care as well.
Someone started the car and someone put the car into gear. It doesn't matter which order these steps occurred, there was still an accident.
Driving without due care covers a lot of different situations, but it applies to them all. The "driver" was unable to control their vehicle in a safe manner, whether it be falling asleep at the wheel, ghostriding or autostarting your car in gear.
Not sure what you are trying to dispute here, you started the car that you left in gear. That essentially makes you the driver.
If cats always land on their feet, and toast always lands butter side down, what would happen if you strapped burnt toast to the back of a cat and dropped it?
For starters, I'm pretty sure by using a remote start you become "in care and control" of the vehicle once you hit that button. Second, just removing the remote doesn't disable the system, you need to remove the fuse or disconnect the remote start wiring. Not so relevant when parking outside, but if the car is ever parked in a garage the remote start needs to be fully disabled on the cars end to prevent a carbon monoxide issue. Third, this is more an an FYI, the remote start won't disable the steering lock, you still need the key for that, so it could only go forward (ish, depends on the wheel orientation), not pull a u turn.
IMO "fleeing an accident" and "driving without due care" aren't really applicable charges, since as you said the accident didn't involve another car, I'd think whatever charges would be applied to a car rolling down a hill or something would be more appropriate, I think you're in violation of MVA 191.2b (turning the wheels on a grade) and maybes 195.1 (vehicle moving on a highway with an obstructed view)? for that.
^ That's what I was also thinking (not sure if I wrote it in my post anywhere), but possibly a charge of not securing my vehicle properly to allow it to roll. I pm'd one of the officer members a while back about this and that is also what he said he might have issued me.
After reading your first part about disabling the remote start, I'm not too sure what you mean. I just meant I stopped carrying or using the remote FOB so I wouldn't be able to remote start the car again and run into the same issue. Would carbon monoxide be a problem somehow if the system was still hooked up but never in use?
Third part - didn't know about the steering lock as I never tried, thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SumAznGuy
The remote start will continue to apply power to the starter until it hits whatever RPM is that tells the computer the engine is running.
There is no anti grind, or other super natural forces that will keep the car from rolling forward when remote start is initiated with the car in gear.. This is why most installers, legally, will not install remote start on a manual car. Autotragic cars obviously do not have this problem. What you could do is put the car in second or third gear instead of first and that should stall the car upon start up keep the car from lurching too far forward.
As for the ticket itself, I feel for you. First off, as I always tell people, phone the office and as for full disclosure. With his notes from that day, you can then see how strong of a case he has with this charge. As underscore said, by setting off the remote start and allowing the car to roll away, it is understandable that the officer felt driving without due care is the appropriate offense.
Officers are humans and they too can respond negatively in emotional situations.
Perhaps you can speak to him before going to court to see if he can change the charge or withdraw the ticket. Basically tell him what you told us today. You learned your lesson. You are truely remorseful and you need your license. You can even go as far as to show him your car and how you had the remote start disabled so that there is no chance of a repeat for this.
Last thing you can do is go to court, and tell the JP that you admit to the offense but ask to waive the 6 pts or have a reduced fine.
Thank you for the info at the beginning on how the starter works. I honestly did not know, I only assumed when I was shopping for them a while ago that the Anti-Grind was some sort of feature to stop the car from starting if it was in gear. I guess the many times were I attempted to start it but left it in gear, it just must have stalled.
I will contact him for disclosure to see everything he has. I really need to do more research on all of this first, I just wanted to post up to get feedback. I'd love to talk with him and ask for a different fine, or just something that won't jeopardize losing my license. Am I able to even do that? I know I can talk to him and try to settle right before seeing the judge. Will look into this.
Can't show him I've disabled the car because I don't own it any longer. Again, thanks for the post
Quote:
Originally Posted by boibuddha
This incident is not much different than ghost riding incidents. Those guys get charged with the driving without due care as well.
Someone started the car and someone put the car into gear. It doesn't matter which order these steps occurred, there was still an accident.
Driving without due care covers a lot of different situations, but it applies to them all. The "driver" was unable to control their vehicle in a safe manner, whether it be falling asleep at the wheel, ghostriding or autostarting your car in gear.
Not sure what you are trying to dispute here, you started the car that you left in gear. That essentially makes you the driver.
Wow, that's actually a pretty good analogy and I didn't think of it that way until you mentioned it. And as mentioned multiple times in my post I was looking for other perspectives on this because it's easy to see from my own POV. I disputed it because at the time I weighed my options and knew I couldn't be without my license if it came down to that. Not trying to run away or get off the hook, but I want to make sure it's the right charge. It worst came to worst, I would be okay with the 6 points, $600-$650 in fines, it's just the chance of losing my license would take it to a whole other level to me and in my opinion I didn't feel what I did and my driving record would warrant that.
Thanks all for reading/contributing, I know that original post is massive.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSF22
Every time I'm there I usually see Jgresch's name under "Best Lap Times"
^ just to add to that last post though... As far as comparing it to ghost riding a car, people who were doing that had full knowledge of what they were doing. To the best of my knowledge I had no idea that this would ever happen, had I known I obviously would not have been using it in the first place. But then part of me says just because I don't know something doesn't mean I'm not responsible for when something bad happens.
I guess also what I'm getting as is, it's not going to take anything more for me to learn a lesson here, other than finding out this happened in the first place. Even if the police officer never gave me a ticket for this in the first place, and I found out that my car did this, I would take the necessary steps to make sure it never happens again. Hell it could have been so much worse if it had actually hit somebody instead of something.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSF22
Every time I'm there I usually see Jgresch's name under "Best Lap Times"
^ just to add to that last post though... As far as comparing it to ghost riding a car, people who were doing that had full knowledge of what they were doing. To the best of my knowledge I had no idea that this would ever happen
That's where I'm sitting a too thinking about your case.
CBA lawyer Referral Service may be a reasonable option, especially if there is a risk of the OSMV reviewing your license.
Sometimes we tend to be in despair when the person we love leaves us, but the truth is, it's not our loss, but theirs, for they left the only person who couldn't give up on them.
Make the effort and take the risk..
"Do what you feel in your heart to be right- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't." - Eleanor Roosevelt
-Owned a car for 2 years with remote start.
-One morning Remote started, accidentally in first gear and it drove slowly down the block and into a bus post.
-Before I could report damage (minimal), police contact me because of witness
-Meet up with officer to eventually charges me with driving without due care
-Was okay with this ($3XX) felt it was deserved
-Found out its 6 points, license possibly suspended, and $600 after DPP
-Can't be without a license due to where I lived, school, work etc.
-Disputed in hopes of not losing license, still okay with fees/points though
extra notes:
I didn't know leaving it in gear would cause this to happen, from experience it never could start in first gear.
Looking for outside perspectives on what I should actually be charged with, I feel I learned my lesson the minute I found out this happened. Losing my license wouldn't further make me learn a lesson. Thought this could maybe be equal to not properly parking and letting my car roll or something.
These coles notes make it seem a lot worse than I thought it was though...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSF22
Every time I'm there I usually see Jgresch's name under "Best Lap Times"
I'll be honest I don't feel for you at all about the money, I got one excessive speed ticket (which is worth 3 pts), and because its excessive speed you end up on the DRP automatically (it takes 4 pts otherwise to end up on the DRP) which means that for the following three years I get the distinct pleasure of paying $320 each year.
Your situation is simillar you can expect to pay that $300 for the next three years. So its not just once you have to pay that fine around your birthday. ICBC is gonna nail you for it 2 more times still...lol
In regards to your actual situation I do feel for you. It's pretty shitty. I have no recommendations, but best of luck dealing with it. I hope someone else has something you might be able to use...
After reading your first part about disabling the remote start, I'm not too sure what you mean. I just meant I stopped carrying or using the remote FOB so I wouldn't be able to remote start the car again and run into the same issue. Would carbon monoxide be a problem somehow if the system was still hooked up but never in use?
As long as the remote start module is installed in the car it can cause the car to start, either by malfunctioning on its own or by accidentally receiving a signal from something else causing it to start (not overly likely but still possible) so it's generally not a good idea to park a car with any kind of remote start system inside.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jgresch
Thank you for the info at the beginning on how the starter works. I honestly did not know, I only assumed when I was shopping for them a while ago that the Anti-Grind was some sort of feature to stop the car from starting if it was in gear. I guess the many times were I attempted to start it but left it in gear, it just must have stalled.
Anti-grind is a feature to stop you from engaging the starter using the key when the remote start has already started the car, since you will "grind" and damage the starter by doing so. AFAIK some starters do have a feature to kill the engine if it detects the car might be in gear but I don't know how that works or how reliable it would be.
Is there any chance you know what brand/model the starter was? If it had features to help prevent a manual car from starting in gear that might help you.
__________________ 1991 Toyota Celica GTFour RC // 2007 Toyota Rav4 V6 // 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee
1992 Toyota Celica GT-S ["sold"] \\ 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD [sold] \\ 2000 Jeep Cherokee [sold] \\ 1997 Honda Prelude [sold] \\ 1992 Jeep YJ [sold/crashed] \\ 1987 Mazda RX-7 [sold] \\ 1987 Toyota Celica GT-S [crushed]
Quote:
Originally Posted by maksimizer
half those dudes are hotter than ,my GF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevYouUp
reading this thread is like waiting for goku to charge up a spirit bomb in dragon ball z
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good_KarMa
OH thank god. I thought u had sex with my wife. :cry:
I'll be honest I don't feel for you at all about the money, I got one excessive speed ticket (which is worth 3 pts), and because its excessive speed you end up on the DRP automatically (it takes 4 pts otherwise to end up on the DRP) which means that for the following three years I get the distinct pleasure of paying $320 each year.
Your situation is simillar you can expect to pay that $300 for the next three years. So its not just once you have to pay that fine around your birthday. ICBC is gonna nail you for it 2 more times still...lol
In regards to your actual situation I do feel for you. It's pretty shitty. I have no recommendations, but best of luck dealing with it. I hope someone else has something you might be able to use...
You actually scared me for a second, but the DRP is different from DPP which mine would fall under and it's only a one time fee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by underscore
As long as the remote start module is installed in the car it can cause the car to start, either by malfunctioning on its own or by accidentally receiving a signal from something else causing it to start (not overly likely but still possible) so it's generally not a good idea to park a car with any kind of remote start system inside.
Anti-grind is a feature to stop you from engaging the starter using the key when the remote start has already started the car, since you will "grind" and damage the starter by doing so. AFAIK some starters do have a feature to kill the engine if it detects the car might be in gear but I don't know how that works or how reliable it would be.
Is there any chance you know what brand/model the starter was? If it had features to help prevent a manual car from starting in gear that might help you.
Right right, so if a garage door opener or something with a similar frequency is pressed nearby it could start. Makes sense and good to know. Car was never inside though, unless the rare occasion I was in an underground.
Your explanation of the anti-grind makes sense now. I'll have to try and figure out if I have the model written down somewhere, I think I looked it up a while back, one of the most basic 1 way models, kind of old though.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSF22
Every time I'm there I usually see Jgresch's name under "Best Lap Times"
You actually scared me for a second, but the DRP is different from DPP which mine would fall under and it's only a one time fee.
Son of a birch (soundman reference anyone???). Well then consider yourself lucky in that regard.
I did just think of something, if your license only goes under review after 6 points, then you also have the opportunity to plead your case to the person who reviews those cases. So even if you lose the court case, you still have an opportunity to save your license.
To me, this seems to better fit your circumstances. I don't know how crown could prove you were driving a parked, unoccupied vehicle? It is the section I have used to charge drivers who didn't apply their park brakes and put into park, or left the car running while they went into a store etc.
Leaving parked vehicle
191 (1) A motor vehicle must be equipped with a lock or other device to prevent the unauthorized use of the motor vehicle.
(2) A driver must not permit a motor vehicle to stand unattended or parked unless the driver has
(a)[/B] locked it or made it secure in a manner that prevents its unauthorized use, and
(b) if the motor vehicle is standing on a grade, turned the front wheels of the vehicle to the curb or side of the highway.
To me, this seems to better fit your circumstances. I don't know how crown could prove you were driving a parked, unoccupied vehicle? It is the section I have used to charge drivers who didn't apply their park brakes and put into park, or left the car running while they went into a store etc.
Leaving parked vehicle
191 (1) A motor vehicle must be equipped with a lock or other device to prevent the unauthorized use of the motor vehicle.
(2) A driver must not permit a motor vehicle to stand unattended or parked unless the driver has
(a)[/B] locked it or made it secure in a manner that prevents its unauthorized use, and
(b) if the motor vehicle is standing on a grade, turned the front wheels of the vehicle to the curb or side of the highway.
Could someone argue this wasn't a case of unauthorized use. ie. the car wasn't left in a manner that allowed someone else to jump in and drive away. While there was a mechanical failure that caused the car to roll away the car was still locked and secured I assume.
I wouldn't worry about license being suspended. While getting a six point offence does put your license under review, it's unlikely the government would take the action of suspending you based on a single conviction with a clean record prior to.
Crown could argue that the car was not locked in a secure manner that would haveprevented it's unauthorized use...the fact that someone didn't actually do that is not required. A running car left with the doors unlocked is "unsecured...." etc. It doesn't require someone to steal it to prove the case.
This is one reason why autostart should not be installed on a vehicle with a manual transmission.. Normally with autostart the vehicle remains locked and if any one touches the break it will shut off automatically to prevent it from being stolen.
Wouldn't that depend on what the definition of "unauthorized use" is? Is a car rolling away on its own because of mechanical failure considered to be "unauthorized use"? I wouldn't think so. Unauthorized use sounds more like leaving your car unsecured in such a manner that someone else could take it.
On the other hand, I wonder if a judge would conclude the fact someone left a car running and unattended is enough evidence to support 191(2)a, then every single person who uses a remote start (which keep in mind is a factory-installed option on many cars) could be charged with that. And that would be ridiculous.
OR...in a manner..I would think having an unoccupied vehicle moving with no one controlling it could hardly be considered being operated in an authorized manner. IF the car was locked or secure in a manner that prevents unauthorized use the car would not have moved under it's own unoccupied power. These would be points I would raise if I had issued the VT for a runaway car. Cars that are properly locked or secured do not drive off on their own.
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