Winter tire discussion for grown ups thread.

[supafamous]

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/...-Tyre-Test.htm This review has the Pilot Alpin 5 and the WinterContact TS870 coming in first for winter tires (what we call a performance winter here is a regular winter in Europe). It's a bummer that the newest winter tires don't make it here right away - the Pilot Alpin 5 was available in Europe for almost 2 winters before it came here.

I have the WinterContact TS850P on my RDX and, like the Pilot Alpin 4, I do have to pick some battles but I like the tradeoffs since I'm not going into really woolly situations as a city driver. I do enjoy lighting up all 4 wheels from time to time though.

[CorneringArtist]

Snowplowing the entire way from Surrey to Vancouver. The Vikingcontact 7's were very easy to read. Bit of wheel spin up to about 20 km/h, then they clamp down hard. Car had no inclination to wiggle about unless I made a game of it. The drive home felt a bit shaky though because of the snow buildup, thought my shit was misfiring

[TypeRNammer]

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/tires...content=341376

Continental ContactWinter SI tires 30% off on select sizes at Canadian Tire

[Eff-1]

Can you guys comment on the average lifespan of winter tires these days?

My set of Blizzak ws80s are on their 4th winter now. Purchased in Nov 2018. We spend a lot of time in Whistler and so they've seen quite a bit of true winter roads since new. Visibly they still look okay, still lots of siping left. But this is the first year i've noticed far less traction when cornering. You can feel the car slide when taking low speed turns especially. Stopping and starting on hills is still no problem at all. I'm guessing i've put 15k - 20k kms on them since Nov 2018. I'm just curious what the actual lifespan of tires is these days and how much longer I should expect out of them. Thanks

[320icar]

You chose the softest snow tire on the market. Some people only get two seasons out of the ws80

[tofu1413]

from what I've heard that people ran them, the first half of the compound is quite soft and offers exceptional traction in cold / snowy days.

the second half is closer to a "soft-medium ish" all season tire.

I find the Nokians to work the best so far. (In general)

[Eff-1]

Since asking my question, I did some research and sounds like tofu1413 is bang on. The first 55% of the tread uses a different compound than the last 45% and all signs would appear that even though I have a lot of tread left, that explains why there is a noticeable difference from last season to this season.

A little disappointing considering I was hoping to get a couple more seasons out of them given the low mileage, but the performance so far has been great. Never had a problem driving through snow/ice and the sea to sky, past 4 years. Still would consider another set of Blizzaks.

[trollface]

It really depends on how you drive/what you drive/how long you run them for. There is no magic measuring stick, just like all tires.

Some people get 50k out of a set of all seasons, I can run em dead in 30.

[twitchyzero]

what's the sweet spot medium tires for winters then? that will get you the balance of performance and mileage

i recall people suggesting all-weathers wear like DWS that performance changes as tread wears, has there been a design that overcomes this or the companies want them disposable way before warrantied mileage/tread to be considered end of life?

[tofu1413]

Seems like the longest wearing sets are the Michelin X ICE series rubbers.

Medium compound will be more like the General Altimax and the Nokians.

Softer will be those WS80s. I found the falken euro winters quite soft too and literally melts when temps get above 10 deg celsius.

So far for All seasons, the DWS 06 and Pilot A/Ses work well with typical Vancouver days (mostly wet days. Not too cold) The DWS having deeper cuts yet softer sidewalls (better ride) and the AS works better in the dry with still good wet weather performance and a more performance tire feel stiffer sidewall.

That’s about all I have off the top of my head.

[EvoFire]

Seeing what tofu said about XICE. My XICE looks brand new on the 3rd winter. Granted I barely drove last year due to covid.

[320icar]

Michelin x ice come with a mileage warranty. One of the only snow tires on the market to do so

[roverT]

DWS06 Plus fixed the soft sidewall issues and competes extremely well with Pilot Sport A/S 4 and even exceeds the performance of Michelin. My dad just put the new Plus on his 535d and they do feel better for sure than his retired non Plus.

I just wouldn’t depend on DWS in really horrible conditions. I drove my car last year winter with new 4 month old DWS06 “non Plus” and I went out in similar conditions as two days ago. The experience was very hairy forcing me to put the car back on the driveway immediately. Way too much understeer and it took too much time for the rear to gain back traction once it was partially lost.

If you run those tires on AWD then you might get by but be mindful that you will need extra space for deceleration compared to winters and pick your battles wisely.

I ran Blizzak winter performance LM60s on my E46 M3 for 5 winters (approx 10-12k per season with lots of hard throttle) without too much issue in deep heavy snow. Winter #6 became noticeably less dependable in deep snow so I had to be mindful of heavy snow storms (which still beat A/S tires) but dry/wet was still amazing other than tread squirm/softness that I don’t feel with PA4s.

[EvoFire]

I'm not terribly impressed with the XICE3, but it's also mounted on a M3 and I can climb hills with it, I guess I shouldn't be complaining too much.

The only sketching part is if I curb park, but I don't think there's much I can do about that short of running studs.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by roverT

DWS06 Plus fixed the soft sidewall issues and competes extremely well with Pilot Sport A/S 4 and even exceeds the performance of Michelin. My dad just put the new Plus on his 535d and they do feel better for sure than his retired non Plus.

I just wouldn’t depend on DWS in really horrible conditions. I drove my car last year winter with new 4 month old DWS06 “non Plus” and I went out in similar conditions as two days ago. The experience was very hairy forcing me to put the car back on the driveway immediately. Way too much understeer and it took too much time for the rear to gain back traction once it was partially lost.

If you run those tires on AWD then you might get by but be mindful that you will need extra space for deceleration compared to winters and pick your battles wisely.

I ran Blizzak winter performance LM60s on my E46 M3 for 5 winters (approx 10-12k per season with lots of hard throttle) without too much issue in deep heavy snow. Winter #6 became noticeably less dependable in deep snow so I had to be mindful of heavy snow storms (which still beat A/S tires) but dry/wet was still amazing other than tread squirm/softness that I don’t feel with PA4s.

I ran DWS06 on a F56 Mini, and I have the "plus" on a G01 X3 right now. They brake really poorly on snow considering the whole snow advertising.

I wanted PAS4 for the X3 but couldn't beat the price of the Conti, and also there was just no stock on PAS4 for the size I need available

[roverT]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

I ran DWS06 on a F56 Mini, and I have the "plus" on a G01 X3 right now. They brake really poorly on snow considering the whole snow advertising.

I wanted PAS4 for the X3 but couldn't beat the price of the Conti, and also there was just no stock on PAS4 for the size I need available

I only have experience with the 5er on DWS06 in Edmonton snow which is ultra cold and fluffy so lots of snow for tread sipes to grab. I did notice a lack of braking power but it seemed sufficient in Edmonton and maybe because the 5er is much heavier than my 3er, so it felt far better than DWS on my 3.

[underscore]

Well the wear bars for snow use are higher than the wear bars for any use at all, I believe they're usually around 40%. Having a winter compound below that wouldn't make much sense since you're not meant to be using them for snow anymore.

I've never put enough mileage on anything to actually wear out a set of tires, but we abused the hell out of the X Ice on my wifes old Prelude on forestry roads and running them through the summer and they still weren't showing any wear when we sold the car.

[320icar]

Most winter tires have two wear bars. One at 7/32 that is intended to tell the user “these are no longer snow tires, consider them all seasons”. And then the standard wear bar at 2/32 which means “this is no longer road legal.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

what's the sweet spot medium tires for winters then? that will get you the balance of performance and mileage

i recall people suggesting all-weathers wear like DWS that performance changes as tread wears, has there been a design that overcomes this or the companies want them disposable way before warrantied mileage/tread to be considered end of life?

I think the CrossClimate2 is the sweet spot if by "performance" you mean all conditions.

See: https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/...-Tyre-Test.htm - CrossClimate2 wins in the dry and in snow.

I think the DWS' snow performance is over rated - I've had 3 set of them and think they work in a pinch in light snow but that's about it. It's one of those "it can help you get home if you're careful in snow" tire, not "you'll get home confidently in the snow" tire. I wouldn't go down side streets or back alleys with it unless I was prepared to work for it.

[Edison_Chen]

We’ve got the all weather cross climate (first gen) from Costco maybe 2 years ago on the wife’s Corolla and it did pretty well this winter. It broke traction when I was playing around with the accelerator and slamming the brakes. I’d would buy the cross climates again when we replace her tires in the future. My only complain the tires kick up a lot of rocks and other debris while driving over them.

[roastpuff]

Originally Posted by roverT

I feel you on the PA4s. They have their strengths and weaknesses. As long as you can find a tire that ticks most of your boxes and you can accept or find your way from the unchecked boxes, that tire you chose will be ideal for you.

Yeah, the PA4 is "good enough" for my use case, especially with AWD. I can live with the reduced deep snow performance given than I'm in Vancouver and won't see that many dumps per winter.

Originally Posted by supafamous

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/...-Tyre-Test.htm This review has the Pilot Alpin 5 and the WinterContact TS870 coming in first for winter tires (what we call a performance winter here is a regular winter in Europe). It's a bummer that the newest winter tires don't make it here right away - the Pilot Alpin 5 was available in Europe for almost 2 winters before it came here.

I have the WinterContact TS850P on my RDX and, like the Pilot Alpin 4, I do have to pick some battles but I like the tradeoffs since I'm not going into really woolly situations as a city driver. I do enjoy lighting up all 4 wheels from time to time though.

I think they've released the PA6 in Europe too... we really do get slow releases of the newest tires.

Originally Posted by Eff-1

Can you guys comment on the average lifespan of winter tires these days?

My set of Blizzak ws80s are on their 4th winter now. Purchased in Nov 2018. We spend a lot of time in Whistler and so they've seen quite a bit of true winter roads since new. Visibly they still look okay, still lots of siping left. But this is the first year i've noticed far less traction when cornering. You can feel the car slide when taking low speed turns especially. Stopping and starting on hills is still no problem at all. I'm guessing i've put 15k - 20k kms on them since Nov 2018. I'm just curious what the actual lifespan of tires is these days and how much longer I should expect out of them. Thanks

4 seasons and 15-20K KM out of Blizzaks are about what you should be expecting. After that they drop off dramatically.

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

what's the sweet spot medium tires for winters then? that will get you the balance of performance and mileage

i recall people suggesting all-weathers wear like DWS that performance changes as tread wears, has there been a design that overcomes this or the companies want them disposable way before warrantied mileage/tread to be considered end of life?

Stuff like the X-Ice 3, Continental WinterContact series (Viking series I guess now) tend to have the longevity and performance in a sweet spot IMO. I haven't used the Pirelli tires enough to say one way or another.

[lilaznviper]

have ice 3 on my rav4, second season and still grips pretty well. not issues going up hills last night was kinda icy/snow conditions on the residential streets

[Spectre_Cdn]

One month old Xice Snow on an awd GS, no problems even in thicc snow on Coquitlam residential streets.

[RevYouUp]

Have some 2 year old x-ices on my 07 Honda Fit, the cars a tank

[roastpuff]

I got cajoled into going to Ice-X (autocross on ice) at Barnes Lake in early February so I guess we’ll see how well these Pilot Alpin 4s do on a frozen lake!



I think I see 320icar signed up, is there anyone else going?