Dale's alignment experience. read!

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by Roach

Happened right around the same time as jpark's incident and the thread was deleted from RS after. A real disservice to users of this forum to have valid negative reviews deleted.

FYI, thread wasn't deleted/closed. Was just buried inside a build thread.

http://www.revscene.net/forums/66424...ml#post8006158

[inv4zn]

^But that's just a few posts from a very long thread...

All I see in jpark's S2K build thread are a few posts - none of the responses from Dale's.

[Stook]

I have had pretty bad experience with dales as well recently, won't be bothered going back again even if they pay me.
I wrote a google review, looks like it has been deleted. not sure how that can be done, pretty surprising.
I also posted on their facebook page, got jumped on by Jason and Jameson.

[inv4zn]

^Found your review on their FB page...

And they really come off as assholes lol - surprising because when I talked to them in person years ago they were actually rather nice. Shit changes I guess.

Also lol at Jason leaving a review on his shop's page, pretending to be a customer haha

[saucywoman]

For alignments everyone should go to The Speed Sydicate. They're a sponsor and friends of RevScene. They will do a great job, you won't have to worry about any shady maneuvers, plus they are all super friendly. I went there last year for an alignment and was quite impressed with just how great I was treated. Listening to them talk to one another you know they're all happy to be there; I for one like seeing employees happy as for me that's a reflection of how the company is

[brrrz]

I bought a set of coils and PSS at dale's and brought in my RPF1's that they installed all at the same time.
Service was great. Ended up spending a little more then what I expected to seemed like their prices my have been a tad high but hey who actually stays in their budget when modifying their car??

I never have that's for sure!

Service they provided was 10/10 Jameson was very knowledgeable and was always able to answer any question I had on the spot and if he didn't know the answer 100% he would tell me so and follow up with an email later that day. I work just down the street and they didn't mind me popping in the shop and walking around checking things out as the process was happening.

Install went perfectly. I have always found a new scratch etc on my car in the past at other shops after I had something done nothing here.

Would highly recommend the shop and I will be bringing my business back

[R. Mutt]

Edwin at dynamic auto ftw (opposite drivehard). Tracks a 991 cup car and has given great advice to me in the past. Friendly, prompt service and open on Saturdays as well (last I inquired TSS is closed on a Saturday...not sure if that has since changed). Never been to Dale's but I've always been told good things. I called a month ago to try an book the same day as I had an autoX event the next day and they were fully booked. Offered to pay extra if they could squeeze me in as I really wanted to dial in more camber and caster for the event They said it's not about the money but simply a matter of being maxed out and they can't compromise the amount of time other cars which I thought was pretty good hear...gave me the impression they care about the quality of their work over profit. Interesting to see the contrast in this thread...would've never guessed.

[SkunkWorks]

Originally Posted by R. Mutt

Edwin at dynamic auto ftw (opposite drivehard). Tracks a 991 cup car and has given great advice to me in the past. Friendly, prompt service and open on Saturdays as well (last I inquired TSS is closed on a Saturday...not sure if that has since changed).

Sure the owner tracks a Pcar, but that doesn't mean they know what they're doing... They managed to overfill my 911 with 2-3 quarts of oil which caused my intake manifold to be completely saturated in oil. I had to rip it all apart to degrease and replace all the gaskets in the process.

On your second point, TSS is open Saturdays.

[ncrx]

wow 5 pages.. about a magical alignment shop craziness

never been to dale's

its just an alignment.. if u've got a printout of before and after and its in factory specs you're good any shop can do that for you

if you're looking for a specific alignment, then you yourself should study up and know what you're doing and asking for. and any shop can get your alignment to what you ask for

[R. Mutt]

Originally Posted by SkunkWorks

Sure the owner tracks a Pcar, but that doesn't mean they know what they're doing... They managed to overfill my 911 with 2-3 quarts of oil which caused my intake manifold to be completely saturated in oil. I had to rip it all apart to degrease and replace all the gaskets in the process.

On your second point, TSS is open Saturdays.

That's too bad. I don't do any engine work at dynamic so I can't speak for the quality in that dept, only suspension and as far as that goes I have always had good results. In like manner, a few of the guys at RacingGreed also go there and had good things after getting their allignment.

Good to know TSS is now open on Saturdays, I'll be sure to check them out one of these weekends, maybe they can install my gauges. I've called them a couple times to inquire about getting an allignment and other stuff but they said their not open on a Saturday. That was over six months ago or so though, if memory serves correct.

[BRZ dude]

Hi,

My name is Jason and I run Dales Alignment. I have talked to Jameson concerning the OP rant/post and what has been mentioned is only half the story(as always).

OP says BMW measured his tires tread depth? but failed to mention what was causing the vibration was a tire starting to separate. Looking at the OP's tire in the picture he posted, where did they measure the tread depth? the outside edge? the inside edge of the front tire has severe wear caused by the front thrust arm bushings being worn and other issues listed below.

Tread Depth Action
6/32" Your tires have sufficient tread depth
5/32" Consider replacing your tires if wet road conditions are a concern
4/32" to 3/32" You should consider a tire replacement or monitor closely
2/32" (1.5mm) Your tires are considered legally bald and need to be replaced

The measurements above are a guideline most tire shop's use. Just looking at the tire in the pic shows a worn tire. Second of all and here is an education, tires have a due date. Look on the sidewall of your tires and there should be four numbers for ex. 0413, this means the tire was manufactured 4 week of 2013. Tires have an expiry date after 6yrs of use no matter how much tread is remaining. OP mentions he has run the tires for 6yrs and for the last two has used them year round??

info here- Canadian Tire

Now the OP says he runs snow tires through the summer? reason why not to here:

What happens when you use your winter tires all year round? - Kal Tire - Your True Service BlogKal Tire ? Your True Service Blog

I have worked beside Jameson for a couple years now and I highly doubt he was as dramatic as the OP says. We have strict guidelines in place in how to deal with customers and going overboard trying to make a customer feel forced to purchase tires etc. is not what we do. If he did seem overly concerned about the tire condition, he had a good reason to be. Jameson and our other service writers are not on commision so trying to upsell you tires doesn't benefit them in anyway. If it did we would have went ahead and done the alignment, taken your $100 and never mentioned a thing about the tire separation. A customer purchasing tires from us or not doesn't change our financial well being, trust me. All we want is the vehicle to be safe and the condition of your tires is not good. They are 6yr/old(maybe older), worn out snow tires that have been used year round for two years and the car also has worn suspension bushings, why are we getting thrown under the bus for bringing this to your attention?

[Tr1ll]

[BRZ dude]

And they really come off as assholes lol - surprising because when I talked to them in person years ago they were actually rather nice. Shit changes I guess.

Also lol at Jason leaving a review on his shop's page, pretending to be a customer haha

Nothing has changed. Just remember to ask for the other side of the story

[jpark]

Originally Posted by Lomac

FYI, thread wasn't deleted/closed. Was just buried inside a build thread.

http://www.revscene.net/forums/66424...ml#post8006158

lol there was an actual thread i made, where this dude (^) chimed in. And all the sudden the thread disappeared.
inb4 this thread gets deleted again. Money talks in the end i guess. Quite the shame to provide such disservice

[BRZ dude]

wow im surprised at the negative reviews for dale's alignment. i've been dealing with dale's alignment since 2006 for all my suspension needs on my sti until 2011 when i sold it. i've had nth but great customer service from the shop, granted jason and only jason was the only person to touch my car. he even gave me FREE bottles of motul competition gear oil from his personal stash for me when he found out i had flushed the tranny with the wrong oil and caused the center diff to grind in tight turns. the only time when it wasnt jason that touched my car was when i was swapping everything out to part out so i didnt care who worked on my car. i even brought in an isf that had been in a major accident to get it realigned since it wasnt driving right and jason took the time to point out to me everything wrong with the repairs from the body shop instead of just trying to aligning the car and masking the problems.

sad to see a once great shop go down the hill.

Dale's is not going downhill. We have experienced massive growth over the last 7-8yrs and sometimes a business will have a few weak areas exposed. We monitor our reviews -Google, Facebook, Forums, MachanicNet etc. and we try to rectify any major issue and try to respond to the upset customer. I can guarantee Jameson will be calling the OP to see what went wrong, not because of this thread but its something we do. It is a procedure we put in place to help us and you the customer come to a conclusion. We actually have contests to garner reviews, so when a customer leaves a review their name is entered into a draw to win prizes such as tablets, golf bags etc. We are not buying reviews, we are purchasing a customers time so they will send a review good or bad. This is one tool we use to "build" our business. Happy customers rarely leave reviews but if a customer feels they are wronged-look out! They will go out of their way to let people know. Here is the issue, how do we intercept the unhappy customers complaint before it goes viral? We want the customer to call us or let us know when the vehicle is picked up if he/she has an issue or even after the fact if it is a mechanical issue. We want to resolve the problem, don't be afraid or shy to confront us. If our service doesn't meet your satisfactory requirements we want to resolve the issue before it hits the 'net. The reason is there is always two sides to every story and having myself or another Dales employee come on a forum like this to defend ourselves is childish. If you have an issue call us, it will be resolved. Every complaint about our service which there isn't many considering we have written over 21000 invoices in 3 years has not been brought to our attention first before it hits the forums. I'm not boasting about the amount of work we do, I only want to put it in perspective.
One thing that is glaring since we started monitoring our reviews is that some if not most of the negative reviews come from this type of customer(some poked their heads into this thread):
1)customer supplies own part -lets say a rear bearing for an S2000. Customer wants bearing swapped because another shop said it was toast. Why didn't the other shop repair it? they were probably too expensive compared to our quote. We proceed to inspect the bearing with a stethoscope and find no issue with the bearing. We mention this to the customer but he still wants it changed. The job turns sideways because the hub is seized into the bearing. Job takes longer than quoted so we charge 1/2-1hr more labour time. Customer supplies part we do not guarantee labour quotes, we cannot since we are already losing on the job. We tried to tell the customer initially we didn't feel the bearing had to be changed, he declined our diagnosis. He was a charged a bit more for labour since the job went a bit sideways, not because of our workmanship but sometimes these thing happen.
BTW. We do not mind if customers supply their own parts other shops will decline this because it eats up profit.

2)the customer who is demanding and thinks their car is priority- customer has heavily modded NSX, wants the wheel alignment done ASAP. We tell this customer to drop it off and leave it, no guarantee when we can look at it especially on a days notice. We are a very busy shop and this our procedure when it comes to custom alignments on a track car and no customer's have issues with this. We will not rush a car out of the shop because a customer wants it done ASAP. Its all about safety and we will not compromise that to make a $150. He shows up and takes his car at 6pm after we haven't touched it yet and thinks it is our fault we didn't get it done. Again we never charged this customer a thing but he leaves negative reviews everywhere about our service. Why wasn't this mentioned in our office during vehicle pick-up? no, lets wait until I'm confident and sitting in front of a keyboard so I can throw out a one sided story on a forum or review board.

3) the cheap guy- to be honest we have no time for the frugal time bandit who tries to grind every last nickel out of every quote or the guy asking for the deal before we build a relationship with you. I give deals out to loyal customers all of the time, they earn it out of being loyal. They are not the one time customer worrying about their pocket book. We used to try and work with these type of customers but not worth it. They usually have heightened expectations too and are very painful to deal with.

4) 95% of the negative reviews are related to our customer service, not our workmanship. Either we let a customer down on getting a job done in a timely manner, or we charge too much-but who are you comparing us too? we actually received a negative review because we didn't have a TV in our office?? We have set up systems and procedures to try and eliminate these issues. For example, we now offer rental cars and in most cases if you are a loyal customer who is getting work done we will pay for it. By doing this we alleviate the pressure of getting the job done in a timely manner. Sorry no TV in our office

Other than growing as a business and building systems and procedures to support this, nothing has changed. There are many new faces added to our team over the years but Darryl and I are still there every day. The same techs we had 8-10 yrs ago are still with us, none have left. We do not cater to certain clientele like we did before because they are not Dale's customers. Every shop has a niche and we do not fit the model of trying to please the customer who fits in the categories listed above. Its not out of arrogance that we no longer cater to this type of customer, it is a matter of time. We have many customers who are willing to pay and understand things come up sometimes but they value the work, time and effort we put into them. We need the time to take care of these customers, not the ones who de-value us.

To the customers who have supported Dales over the years we thank you very much. If anyone has a legit issue with Dales contact me(Jason) anytime and lets try and resolve the issue(s). Don't leave it on a forum where the issue cannot be resolved in a proper manner.

Thanks,


Jason

[duy-]

just had an alignment done at speed syndicate, i dont even know why anyone would go anywhere else.

lowered car friendly
knowledgeable
just car guys like us
nice environment
cheap prices

this honestly shouldnt be a thread about how bad your experience was at one place but rather WHERE is a good place to get an alignment. skimming through the last 5 pages, TSS keeps coming up with good reviews from people who dont work there... call and book an appointment

[jpark]

Originally Posted by BRZ dude

Dale's is not going downhill. We have experienced massive growth over the last 7-8yrs and sometimes a business will have a few weak areas exposed. We monitor our reviews -Google, Facebook, Forums, MachanicNet etc. and we try to rectify any major issue and try to respond to the upset customer. I can guarantee Jameson will be calling the OP to see what went wrong, not because of this thread but its something we do. It is a procedure we put in place to help us and you the customer come to a conclusion. We actually have contests to garner reviews, so when a customer leaves a review their name is entered into a draw to win prizes such as tablets, golf bags etc. We are not buying reviews, we are purchasing a customers time so they will send a review good or bad. This is one tool we use to "build" our business. Happy customers rarely leave reviews but if a customer feels they are wronged-look out! They will go out of their way to let people know. Here is the issue, how do we intercept the unhappy customers complaint before it goes viral? We want the customer to call us or let us know when the vehicle is picked up if he/she has an issue or even after the fact if it is a mechanical issue. We want to resolve the problem, don't be afraid or shy to confront us. If our service doesn't meet your satisfactory requirements we want to resolve the issue before it hits the 'net. The reason is there is always two sides to every story and having myself or another Dales employee come on a forum like this to defend ourselves is childish. If you have an issue call us, it will be resolved. Every complaint about our service which there isn't many considering we have written over 21000 invoices in 3 years has not been brought to our attention first before it hits the forums. I'm not boasting about the amount of work we do, I only want to put it in perspective.
One thing that is glaring since we started monitoring our reviews is that some if not most of the negative reviews come from this type of customer(some poked their heads into this thread):
1)customer supplies own part -lets say a rear bearing for an S2000. Customer wants bearing swapped because another shop said it was toast. Why didn't the other shop repair it? they were probably too expensive compared to our quote. We proceed to inspect the bearing with a stethoscope and find no issue with the bearing. We mention this to the customer but he still wants it changed. The job turns sideways because the hub is seized into the bearing. Job takes longer than quoted so we charge 1/2-1hr more labour time. Customer supplies part we do not guarantee labour quotes, we cannot since we are already losing on the job. We tried to tell the customer initially we didn't feel the bearing had to be changed, he declined our diagnosis. He was a charged a bit more for labour since the job went a bit sideways, not because of our workmanship but sometimes these thing happen.
BTW. We do not mind if customers supply their own parts other shops will decline this because it eats up profit.

2)the customer who is demanding and thinks their car is priority- customer has heavily modded NSX, wants the wheel alignment done ASAP. We tell this customer to drop it off and leave it, no guarantee when we can look at it especially on a days notice. We are a very busy shop and this our procedure when it comes to custom alignments on a track car and no customer's have issues with this. We will not rush a car out of the shop because a customer wants it done ASAP. Its all about safety and we will not compromise that to make a $150. He shows up and takes his car at 6pm after we haven't touched it yet and thinks it is our fault we didn't get it done. Again we never charged this customer a thing but he leaves negative reviews everywhere about our service. Why wasn't this mentioned in our office during vehicle pick-up? no, lets wait until I'm confident and sitting in front of a keyboard so I can throw out a one sided story on a forum or review board.

3) the cheap guy- to be honest we have no time for the frugal time bandit who tries to grind every last nickel out of every quote or the guy asking for the deal before we build a relationship with you. I give deals out to loyal customers all of the time, they earn it out of being loyal. They are not the one time customer worrying about their pocket book. We used to try and work with these type of customers but not worth it. They usually have heightened expectations too and are very painful to deal with.

4) 95% of the negative reviews are related to our customer service, not our workmanship. Either we let a customer down on getting a job done in a timely manner, or we charge too much-but who are you comparing us too? we actually received a negative review because we didn't have a TV in our office?? We have set up systems and procedures to try and eliminate these issues. For example, we now offer rental cars and in most cases if you are a loyal customer who is getting work done we will pay for it. By doing this we alleviate the pressure of getting the job done in a timely manner. Sorry no TV in our office

Other than growing as a business and building systems and procedures to support this, nothing has changed. There are many new faces added to our team over the years but Darryl and I are still there every day. The same techs we had 8-10 yrs ago are still with us, none have left. We do not cater to certain clientele like we did before because they are not Dale's customers. Every shop has a niche and we do not fit the model of trying to please the customer who fits in the categories listed above. Its not out of arrogance that we no longer cater to this type of customer, it is a matter of time. We have many customers who are willing to pay and understand things come up sometimes but they value the work, time and effort we put into them. We need the time to take care of these customers, not the ones who de-value us.

To the customers who have supported Dales over the years we thank you very much. If anyone has a legit issue with Dales contact me(Jason) anytime and lets try and resolve the issue(s). Don't leave it on a forum where the issue cannot be resolved in a proper manner.

Thanks,


Jason

I dont think you're understanding this..
I don't really care much for your reputation and how long you guys have been around for its all irrelevant for me. My only problem from that day, was the fact that none of you guys called me to confirm about the extra hours of labor it was going to consume for my car. You guys just went ahead without my consent assuming i will be okay with it. If it was something like $20~$50 over then so be it, whatever. But when it went 3 hrs over the original quoted time and my bill backfired by almost 300 extra dollars without my consent... then i do see a bit of a problem here. No?

The amount of negative reviews that get brought up handful of times, definitely isn't a coincidence.

[GG]

instead addressing the issue it just seems like run on diarrhea bragging how many customers they have so they dont have time to waste running around with the small timers. They are busy and they been there for a long time blah blah blah

points taken

[MeowMeow]

Looks like acurael, Jpark and Roach yall have some chances to win tablets and golf bags now!

[E-SPEC]

Originally Posted by jpark

I dont think you're understanding this..
I don't really care much for your reputation and how long you guys have been around for its all irrelevant for me. My only problem from that day, was the fact that none of you guys called me to confirm about the extra hours of labor it was going to consume for my car. You guys just went ahead without my consent assuming i will be okay with it. If it was something like $20~$50 over then so be it, whatever. But when it went 3 hrs over the original quoted time and my bill backfired by almost 300 extra dollars without my consent... then i do see a bit of a problem here. No?

The amount of negative reviews that get brought up handful of times, definitely isn't a coincidence.

I'd be pissed off too.

[E-SPEC]

I'll be going BACK to Gords automotive, great experience. I will also say i went to Dales about 4 years ago, and dealt with just Jason. It was a good experience. He himself is a good guy i thought for sure. If it wasn't so god damn far i would consider going back.

[k3mps]

Originally Posted by jpark

I dont think you're understanding this..
I don't really care much for your reputation and how long you guys have been around for its all irrelevant for me. My only problem from that day, was the fact that none of you guys called me to confirm about the extra hours of labor it was going to consume for my car. You guys just went ahead without my consent assuming i will be okay with it. If it was something like $20~$50 over then so be it, whatever. But when it went 3 hrs over the original quoted time and my bill backfired by almost 300 extra dollars without my consent... then i do see a bit of a problem here. No?

The amount of negative reviews that get brought up handful of times, definitely isn't a coincidence.

Not taking any sides here.
I agree, I would be pretty upset that they charged an extra three hours.
But on the other hand, what were they going to do? Leave a job undone because something seized? Stop halfway, and then call for permission to complete the job that you agreed to have them do?

Like I said, not taking sides. I'm not saying I'd be mad, because I WOULD be. I'd even be suspicious as to whether or not the part ACTUALLY seized and if they're just trying to milk me. But at the same time, what choice did they really have other than to finish the job?

[bomiheko]

Originally Posted by k3mps

Not taking any sides here.
I agree, I would be pretty upset that they charged an extra three hours.
But on the other hand, what were they going to do? Leave a job undone because something seized? Stop halfway, and then call for permission to complete the job that you agreed to have them do?

Like I said, not taking sides. I'm not saying I'd be mad, because I WOULD be. I'd even be suspicious as to whether or not the part ACTUALLY seized and if they're just trying to milk me. But at the same time, what choice did they really have other than to finish the job?

That's not the way to do things though. Any financial changes, you have to report to the customer and the customer makes the final decision. You can't make the decision for the customer unless the customer says so. What if the customer doesn't want the shop to do it anymore and wants to go to another shop? You're basically screwed. If this goes to court, you'll have a hard time defending the shop.

[jpark]

Originally Posted by k3mps

Not taking any sides here.
I agree, I would be pretty upset that they charged an extra three hours.
But on the other hand, what were they going to do? Leave a job undone because something seized? Stop halfway, and then call for permission to complete the job that you agreed to have them do?

Like I said, not taking sides. I'm not saying I'd be mad, because I WOULD be. I'd even be suspicious as to whether or not the part ACTUALLY seized and if they're just trying to milk me. But at the same time, what choice did they really have other than to finish the job?

I work for an automotive shop, and if the work is going to take longer, even an hour extra, its a common courtesy and a priority procedure to CALL the customer first and let them know. I'm not just talking this out of my ass as a whiney customer, I'm speaking from experience as a employee who deals with these calls and customers everyday. Its common sense and a right thing to do.

You'd be surprised by how many people tell us to stop and don't give us the green light to go ahead and do so after being informed about the extra labor.

[brrrz]

Well that escalated quickly