Whether to proceed with Criminal Charges

[underscore]

Originally Posted by T4RAWR

i dont see any reinforcement of assailants to continue raging in public here. the other guy was having a shitty day. in a rush to get to somewhere for an emergency or whatever. we're all human and sometimes we snap. he could be an asshole but hard to gauge from the little we know about him.

I did see the full video, and the guy was driving like a complete asshole. He committed a pile of offenses within a few blocks, and from what I remember most were a lot worse than going through a yellow. He couldn't have been in a real rush or going to a real emergency as he wasted a pile of time getting out of his car, attacking OP's car, and then photographing OP's plate (for what reasons I can only guess). The way he was driving and acting this isn't the only time this dickhead has done something like this.

[LP700-4]

OP release the full video and go to the media. Supa's case was on a much tamer basis and he got CBC to do a full story and interview on it. I know VPD told you not to as you stated in the op but wtf can they do. Not a crime to release your own video online.

Im sure the 300 dollars to fix your car is chump change and not worth to go after but i guess the whole point of this is to make sure the guy suffers from his actions.

Dont give up on it

[meme405]

Originally Posted by T4RAWR

there was no dangerous driving presented. the original complaint to the police was of damage to the vehicle. thus, it is not a driving complaint so

Sorry T4RAWR, all my earlier comments were from a discussion standpoint, trying to find a solution in all this. I'm not trying to be an asshole, just trying to find reasonable ground to teach the corolla driver a lesson. Cause as I said before, if with the evidence provided in this thread the police cannot deal with the corolla driver. My fear is that next time I find myself in a similar situation I will end up escalating things much further because I definitely don't intend on becoming a victim of something like the OP is quickly becoming.

Seems like he took the high road, and he is being punished for that. Whereas if he had gotten out and confronted the guy before he reached the side of his Vehicle, OP would have been fine and the guy would have gotten what he wanted.

My question to the above quoted item, where does the law draw the line? Is it seriously not against the MVA or some law to get out of your vehicle and verbally assault someone. I mean fine, we don't see him kick the vehicle in the video, but we see him get out of the car, point, walk towards the vehicle, then we can hear him yelling. How can the police find that portion of the drivers behaviour tolerable? Seems like even what we can actually see in the video is enough to stick the driver with some sort of charge, whether that be driving without due care, or something.

I'd argue that even getting out of a vehicle at a red light constitutes driving without due care. I mean he essentially lost control of the vehicle when he got out of it.

EDIT: Actually I think this opens an interesting argument, If you can receive a driving under the influence ticket, when you aren't even sitting in the drivers seat of the car, and the keys are not in the ignition. You would think that the police would be able to give a driving without due care ticket for someone who exits a running vehicle while literally in the middle of an actual roadway.

Lets take something which I actually witnessed yesterday downtown. Howe and robson the vehicle in front of me had the driver exit the vehicle and walk into pacific center, while the passenger got in the driver seat, and proceeded to go park the vehicle or something I imagine. If they were to have done this in front of a police officer I cannot imagine the police officer would not have stopped them and explained to them how that was at the very least pretty irresponsible and inappropriate. So why is that same logic not being applied here?

Lets take it further, while the two idiots in my above story were making this glorious exchange, they inconvenienced the shit out of me, since the light turned green, and I had to sit behind them for like a minute. We've been taught by the cell phone laws, that holding up other drivers at a green light because your not paying attention is extremely irresponsible because it upsets other drivers and it can lead to road rage.

Can you see where I am going with this?

[xXSupa]

Originally Posted by Spidey

OP's officer did lay it out... she said if the other driver were to be charged for MVA offences, he would have to be as well. You think it is fair to pick and choose WHO to charge when, during an incident there were offences committed by both parties?

Comparing running a yellow to countless dangerous driving manouvres, getting our of your car, leaving your car unattended

I don't want to come off as rude, but there were much more dangerous things committed than just running a yellow.

[Qmx323]

I'd be fucking pissed too if I were 50 and still driving a 2006 Corolla

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by xXSupa

Comparing running a yellow to countless dangerous driving manouvres, getting our of your car, leaving your car unattended

I don't want to come off as rude, but there were much more dangerous things committed than just running a yellow.

What I was saying was that if you were to charge the other driver with all his driving offences, the OP would have to face whatever charges he committed as well. So it would be up to the OP to decide whether he wants to enter the video into court, risking both parties receiving x amount of charges. That is all I was saying.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by meme405

Sorry T4RAWR, all my earlier comments were from a discussion standpoint, trying to find a solution in all this. I'm not trying to be an asshole, just trying to find reasonable ground to teach the corolla driver a lesson. Cause as I said before, if with the evidence provided in this thread the police cannot deal with the corolla driver. My fear is that next time I find myself in a similar situation I will end up escalating things much further because I definitely don't intend on becoming a victim of something like the OP is quickly becoming.

Seems like he took the high road, and he is being punished for that. Whereas if he had gotten out and confronted the guy before he reached the side of his Vehicle, OP would have been fine and the guy would have gotten what he wanted.

My question to the above quoted item, where does the law draw the line? Is it seriously not against the MVA or some law to get out of your vehicle and verbally assault someone. I mean fine, we don't see him kick the vehicle in the video, but we see him get out of the car, point, walk towards the vehicle, then we can hear him yelling. How can the police find that portion of the drivers behaviour tolerable? Seems like even what we can actually see in the video is enough to stick the driver with some sort of charge, whether that be driving without due care, or something.

I'd argue that even getting out of a vehicle at a red light constitutes driving without due care. I mean he essentially lost control of the vehicle when he got out of it.

EDIT: Actually I think this opens an interesting argument, If you can receive a driving under the influence ticket, when you aren't even sitting in the drivers seat of the car, and the keys are not in the ignition. You would think that the police would be able to give a driving without due care ticket for someone who exits a running vehicle while literally in the middle of an actual roadway.

Lets take something which I actually witnessed yesterday downtown. Howe and robson the vehicle in front of me had the driver exit the vehicle and walk into pacific center, while the passenger got in the driver seat, and proceeded to go park the vehicle or something I imagine. If they were to have done this in front of a police officer I cannot imagine the police officer would not have stopped them and explained to them how that was at the very least pretty irresponsible and inappropriate. So why is that same logic not being applied here?

Lets take it further, while the two idiots in my above story were making this glorious exchange, they inconvenienced the shit out of me, since the light turned green, and I had to sit behind them for like a minute. We've been taught by the cell phone laws, that holding up other drivers at a green light because your not paying attention is extremely irresponsible because it upsets other drivers and it can lead to road rage.

Can you see where I am going with this?

Is what the other driver did "wrong", sure. Could it be considered illegal (either under the Criminal Code, or MVA) MAYBE.

Criminal code:

Cause disturbance:
- was the driver or people in the area "disturbed" by the driver's actions? Was the driver swearing and yelling very loudly to have disturbed people from the peace and quiet?

Uttering Threats:

- did the driver threaten OP and or his family/friends with physical harm?

Mischief:

- damage to the property?

I will let you guys google the elements that constitute those above charges. It isn't as simple as what the actual title appears. The elements first have to be met, then there has to be evidence of it happening. Independent witnesses are required to prove an offence occurred, not just he said she said.

PS there is no such thing as verbal assault.

MVA:

Drive without due care and attention.... that won't stick. You can argue and "stretch" the possibility with your examples, but to drive without due care and attention, you would have to be doing something pretty irresponsible and dangerous WITH the vehicle. I don't think you will convince any Justice that leaving your car parked unattended for 10 seconds is considered Driving without due care. Your arguments regarding care and control relating to impaired charges are not even worth my time responding too.

The fact that the officer decided not to followup with the driver is her choice. OP can request her to speak or send a warning letter to the other driver if OP really wants the driver to be notified.... Regardless of whether the other driver will be advised, he will now have a record on the police database regarding the incident.

VPD is a very very very busy detachment, and the harsh truth is, some incidents are treated as lower priority and seriousness. I don't work for them so I cannot speak for them, but they have their own policies on how to deal with certain incidents.... All reports submitted by officers are reviewed by their supervisors. If they are not satisfied with the investigation and conclusion of it, I assure you, the officer would be assigned followup tasks.

[underscore]

^ I'm not sure if you saw the whole video, but getting out of the car was probably one of the tamest things this clown did. Just on the MVA front this guy should've racked up a small pile of tickets through the whole video (not just during the door kicking portion).

[meme405]

Originally Posted by underscore

^ I'm not sure if you saw the whole video, but getting out of the car was probably one of the tamest things this clown did. Just on the MVA front this guy should've racked up a small pile of tickets through the whole video (not just during the door kicking portion).

Ilvtofu needs to post the entire video. Until then others won't realize the entire situation. Until that happens this thread should just die.

My final comment will be that I hope that fucking guy in a corolla does that shit to the wrong person and gets both his legs broken.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by underscore

^ I'm not sure if you saw the whole video, but getting out of the car was probably one of the tamest things this clown did. Just on the MVA front this guy should've racked up a small pile of tickets through the whole video (not just during the door kicking portion).

Did you even read my response? Whether or not the other driver committed 10 MVA infractions or not, if OP wants to forward his video (entire video and not edited) as evidence, OP will be subject to possible MVA charges too. Whether it be 10 charges against the other driver to the possible one for the OP, the entire video has to be submitted, not just parts he selects against the other driver.

[Eff-1]

I'm going to say thanks to Spidey and T4RAWR for taking the time to post comments about this. It's good the other side and thanks for taking the time to explain what the VPD officer most likely didn't.

I'd be choked if I was the OP, but I'm not surprised at all at the end result and saw it coming based entirely on the lack of communication between the officer and OP following the initial complaint. It's obvious she doesn't care at all about this case. She saw it as common road range, (he said/she said, your word against his word, both drivers should be blamed, etc) and she probably just expected it would die on its own. While yes, there is video, I agree the video won't unfortunately support any kind of criminal charge.

I would totally sue the guy in small claims court. With that video, you'd win your case open and shut. At least there would be SOME consequence to the guy.

[Eff-1]

Originally Posted by Spidey

The fact that the officer decided not to followup with the driver is her choice. OP can request her to speak or send a warning letter to the other driver if OP really wants the driver to be notified.... Regardless of whether the other driver will be advised, he will now have a record on the police database regarding the incident.

VPD is a very very very busy detachment, and the harsh truth is, some incidents are treated as lower priority and seriousness. I don't work for them so I cannot speak for them, but they have their own policies on how to deal with certain incidents.... All reports submitted by officers are reviewed by their supervisors. If they are not satisfied with the investigation and conclusion of it, I assure you, the officer would be assigned followup tasks.

This is the part I would have an issue with. Yes VPD is busy and so is every other police dept, but based on that video, it's brutal the officer didn't follow up with the other driver and let him know what he did was offside. If there was no video, then I could see why she wouldn't bother.

Sure, there are assault cases, robbery cases, etc but OP is entitled to get the proper resolution to his case no less than any other complainant (without having to follow up 100 times on it). It's not like she didn't have MORE than enough time to pay a visit/write a letter/or make a phone call to the other guy.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Spidey

Did you even read my response? Whether or not the other driver committed 10 MVA infractions or not, if OP wants to forward his video (entire video and not edited) as evidence, OP will be subject to possible MVA charges too. Whether it be 10 charges against the other driver to the possible one for the OP, the entire video has to be submitted, not just parts he selects against the other driver.

My apologies, the way I read your post it came across as though OP and the other driver both committed the same number of offenses, I wasn't sure if you were aware that the number of infractions Mr. Corolla committed was significantly higher than the ones OP could be charged with. If I was OP I'd take the hit for one yellow light ticket to ensure the other driver gets charged for everything he did.

[320icar]

Hey justin, I'd just leave it. The amount of effort and stress is just not worth continuing with this. Id be happy to kick in a few bucks in a fix the fiesta pool if it means just accepting a shitty situation.

[ilvtofu]

Originally Posted by 320icar

Hey justin, I'd just leave it. The amount of effort and stress is just not worth continuing with this. Id be happy to kick in a few bucks in a fix the fiesta pool if it means just accepting a shitty situation.

I'm not gonna bother going to the media with it, VPD did tweet at me how to go through complaint process if I was unhappy with how the case was handled, I might do that.

[zulutango]

Originally Posted by Spidey

Did you even read my response? Whether or not the other driver committed 10 MVA infractions or not, if OP wants to forward his video (entire video and not edited) as evidence, OP will be subject to possible MVA charges too. Whether it be 10 charges against the other driver to the possible one for the OP, the entire video has to be submitted, not just parts he selects against the other driver.

As Spidey has told you.....whenever I had to deal with 3rd party road rage driving complaints I told the complainant that I would investigate fully, interview both?all drivers?witnesses involved and then proceed with all appropriate charges for all involved parties. At that point, most of the complainants decided to not go forward for whatever reason. I suspect, that in some cases (not saying it was so in yours) , there was more to the story than I had been told initially and there was fault on both sides. You cannot investigate the breaking of a law and only charge 1 side, you must charge both sides or nobody at all.

[Spidey]

From my experience, most road rage incidents are usually a result of the "caller" aka complainant, doing something (whether they realized it or not) to piss off the other driver aka subject of complaint. Whether it justifies the actions of the other party or not, it's hardly ever the case where the caller is 100% "innocent".

[dared3vil0]

^ So let's say I cut someone off, he loses it and jumps out and kicks my car.

Did me cutting him off justify that? Hell no. Whoopdy fucking do if I pissed him off, shouldn't change the fact that he caused property damage and attempted to instigate an altercation.

[hchang]

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by dared3vil0

^ So let's say I cut someone off, he loses it and jumps out and kicks my car.

Did me cutting him off justify that? Hell no. Whoopdy fucking do if I pissed him off, shouldn't change the fact that he caused property damage and attempted to instigate an altercation.

Originally Posted by Spidey

From my experience, most road rage incidents are usually a result of the "caller" aka complainant, doing something (whether they realized it or not) to piss off the other driver aka subject of complaint. Whether it justifies the actions of the other party or not, it's hardly ever the case where the caller is 100% "innocent".

[ilvtofu]

UPDATE: So I escalated this 3 weeks ago through a "record of question or concern from the public" which is sort of a less formal complaint which was handed off to the Sergeant above the Constable that dealt with my case.

Sergeant called me last week while I was working so I couldn't pick up but he called me again today to talk about it and basically he told me that he reviewed the video and saw multiple issues both criminally and motor vehicle act related. He told me that the constable is going to try to set something up to speak to the other party because he has had numerous complaints about his driving (not so much violence/getting out of his car) over the last 5-6 years and basically the video helped them come to a more definite conclusion that this driver's behaviour has to stop.

They offered to help me get some financial restitution for the damages to my vehicle but I felt it was so minor that it's okay as long as justice is served in some way. I really just wanted them to have a conversation with the driver and scare some sense into him.

The sgt says he will call me tomorrow and let me know how the constable's progress goes as she will likely be paying the other party a visit tomorrow. I don't blame the VPD constable for not making a better effort in investigating the case because I admittedly came off pretty strong and wanted to proceed with criminal charges initially.

I was honestly losing sleep over how the other party pretty much "got away" with it which is what made me file the complaint 2 months after the Constable closed the case. I didn't expect much to change after filing the complaint but it's safe to say a lot of my faith with the VPD has been restored.

[wing_woo]

I'm glad you went through with it and that the VPD is doing something about that guy.

[The_Situation]

that means you can post the video now

[meme405]

I think a nice big fucking "I TOLD YOU SO" is in order here.

Good job ilvtofu for sticking with it.

[fishCak3s]

Did the sgt ever called you tofu?