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american cars can be fast and handle way better than ever before... but it is still not as refine as a import from europe and japan that is in the same class...
What about the Lexus RC F compared to the Z28? The Camaro wins out over the RC F if you're compare them solely on performance and price:
Z28: $77,700 CAD MSRP, 505 hp V8.
RC F: $80,00 CAD MSRP, 467 hp V8.
However, I would think the RC F is a more reliable car than the Mustang.
The two you mentioned are different animals targeted at different customers.
I'm not saying one is better than the other, but depending on what you are looking for in a 80k car, the Lexus probably makes more sense. Whereas the Z28 gets people who can't actually afford an 80k car, excited.
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yah, that's what I was getting at. for the past couple of years, our beloved Japanese brands are losing territory in the performance car market. the near future is not looking so bright at the moment.
still waiting to see a turbocharged FRS/BRZ myself.
It's like the 1990s all over again. japanese sports cars didn't improve much and price stays high. i hope it doesnt happen though.
not just that but u jump into a american car like a caddy or a lincoln then jump into a import like a Audi, BMW, Merc, Lexus and Infiniti even a Hyundai Equus / KIA K9 the material feels nicer, looks more high end, and the american car just look like a rental...
as for the fifth gen camaro that technically is not a american car, it might be built here but it weren't design here... quote from wikipedia "GM Holden in Australia led the final design, engineering, and development of the Camaro" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Camaro
Citing Top Gear as a source is not exactly reliable information.
Don't get me wrong... It's a great show, very entertaining. I'd hardly call it "informative" though. (Yes it can be at times, but much of what is said should be taken with at least a few grains of salt)
Goodness, yes the domestic cars have improved (about fucking time after they have been so shitty for such a long time), but to say that they have surpassed import performance cars is premature. It will take much longer time to prove that statement, which I'm highly dubious if it'll really ever come true, at least in the foreseeable future.
Car dudes will sit on a torn bench seat with a moldy dashboard if they feel a particular connection with a car. Meanwhile, you'll be in a parking lot going through the manual on how to use the 7" LCD in your dashboard to set the time forward for daylight savings; any sort of hooning requires you have to come to a stop and push 3 different buttons in sequence while saying hail mary's.
Honda achieved industry-leading levels of quality over the past three decades through forming "keiretsu" -- bringing parts makers closer to the core through cross-shareholdings to allow close cooperation in designing components. Toyota and Nissan had similar set-ups.
But, as cars have become less mechanical and more technical -- and quality is seen as a given -- the focus has shifted to who can offer buyers "more car" at an affordable price.
That has prompted automakers like Honda to focus on core technology such as hybrid propulsion and hydrogen fuel-cell cars, while commodity parts such as doors, seats, and even transmission, are now procured more widely rather than from "keiretsu" suppliers, with the risk they may be cheaper rather than better.
Cliffs:
People want a lot of car for a relatively low price.
Somehow a nav system, automatic climate control, leather seats, bluetooth this, power that, is seen as a "necessity" in a sub-20,000 dollar economy car.
Manufacturers struggle to deliver this, and the quality of other parts (parts the average buyer won't ever see, touch, fix, or repair) suffers.
IMO if consumers weren't so damn unrealistic (aka asking for BMW levels of luxury from an Accord) the Japanese wouldn't have this problem. Personally I would rather have a super reliable, fun to drive, well-built car with barely any "features" than a fully loaded car that is a complete shitpile...
People want a lot of car for a relatively low price.
Somehow a nav system, automatic climate control, leather seats, bluetooth this, power that, is seen as a "necessity" in a sub-20,000 dollar economy car.
Manufacturers struggle to deliver this, and the quality of other parts (parts the average buyer won't ever see, touch, fix, or repair) suffers.
IMO if consumers weren't so damn unrealistic (aka asking for BMW levels of luxury from an Accord) the Japanese wouldn't have this problem. Personally I would rather have a super reliable, fun to drive, well-built car with barely any "features" than a fully loaded car that is a complete shitpile...
I think that was a market trend started by the automakers themselves.
I remember seeing entry level automakers boasting about how they can include luxurious features on their cars at a fraction of a price, compared to their German counterparts.
This has made the German throne sitters a little uncomfortable, but in the end, it is the boasting automakers who need to deliver more and more for less and less.
Meh, I test drove a ton of import and domestic cars when I was looking at getting a new car this summer. Fiesta ST, Focus ST, BRZ, Mustang. Ended up with a Civic Si when comparing price, features, power, fun factor, reliability, etc. Yah a bunch of the cars had faster 0-60 times than the Civic but I don't go to the track. The Mustang was probably the nicest out of the coupes I drove, but I wanted a 4 door. Honda still comes through with a reliable car that has excellent fit and finish, plus that 6 speed gearbox
Had a 2013 Dodge Charger as a rental in LA a few weeks back. The materials inside felt so cheap, tons of thin plastic. I was hammering my foot on the gas and the 8 speed automatic could never find the right gear, was super hard to accelerate on the highway.
Overall, domestics are making strides, and are in a much better position than they were 7-8 years ago, but there is still something about driving an import that I can't move away from.
Grocery getter's are still grocery getter's, I don't think there's much argument that interior wise lower end imports are still far nicer, but it's getting to the point where price point isn't getting you that much more value in imports than domestic.
Hell, a guy I work with just spent 36k on a 2014 Toyota Tacoma. Another guy on our site bought a 2014 dodge 1500 Laramie, loaded with every option brand new for 34
Imo and it's been documented as well, Toyota's quality is not the thing of legends like it used to be, and when your in the same price range, options win imo
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Dank memes cant melt steel beams
Can't get this in Canada though. One hell of a deal.
GM and Chrysler rode their ego laden ass through the 80s and 90s just by waving the US flag. In no time did their shit products bite them back and inevitably leading to Chapter 11s. They could have better tapped into their global operations. By the time cars like the Pontiac G8 and 2nd gen Cadillac CTS came around, it was WAY too late. GM tapped out Holden till their death (no more RWD Commodore).
I'd say it wasn't until the ATS came in that everyone turned around and said 'Whoa, now THIS is a real car'. Yes, GM made some cars with brute power, awesome sound and good dynamics but as far as making a car that appeals to almost everyone, the ATS is really hard to beat.
When the 2010 Buick Regals came out (rebadged Opels), Yanks complained there were too many buttons but back track through time and Yanks also complained the Saturn (Opel) Astra had too many buttons and only ONE cup holder.
I wouldn't say the Domestics have caught up, I'd say the Imports lagged. With prices rising, people just want value for the dollar. If you can get a fully loaded Ford Escape for the price of barely optioned BMW X3, why not?
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That's a "fleet thing". A car manufacturer has to reach a certain average MPG across their entire model range. So they can have a lot of fuel efficient models to lower their overall average.
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That's a "fleet thing". A car manufacturer has to reach a certain average MPG across their entire model range. So they can have a lot of fuel efficient models to lower their overall average.
your number still the same? i'll text you......msg me your daily schedule we'll try and have lunch
wow, Timpo is trolling hard with this most recent post. but I will bite.
"domestic" is a term that is used in North America to describe American car makes. many journalists and other also refer to the big 3 as "American" car makers. and to answer your other question, yes, Japanese or Korean can also call their own cars as domestic, but choose not to.
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