Broken spline drive nut advice!

[toddzilla]

OK this is not what I need this time of year (Merry Christmas to you all, by the way!) Here's what happened.

Just bought a nice , minty (literally - dark green) '94 JDM MR2 and it has a set of 17" Motegi wheels that somebody, at some point, decided to paint the lips of, white! Wouldn't be that objectionable on green, I suppose, but he left the centre bronze, and it's just too much for my taste. So I found a nice set on CL to replace these with and get a new/proper look!

Then I got to loosening the tuner/spline drive lug nuts =( The previous owner - or mechanic - reemed them super tight and it took standing on the tire iron to break them loose...except for one - then another - that literally snapped in half leaving the nub still holding onto the wheel stud deep in each hole. And yes, it's a dual bolt pattern wheel, so the tuner lug nut tool just gets in enough to access the tuner nut, but no other tools will get in there to 'vice-grip (etc) the broken nub out!

I was pissed, but just out of curiousity, I figured I might as well check them all as I'll be going in to a tire shop to have them devise a plan of attack to extract the nub with their magical skills!...hopefully?

But as I feared, they were all super tight, and yes, 3 other (*&^&^$ lug nuts snapped in half! So 16 were good, but 4 now had to be tackled! At least I knew when I went in.

Then the bad news. I called Volco and NTW - who then referred me to umpteen auto body/repair shops only to learn that the studs would have to be drilled out, and new studs would then need to be reinstalled...at an approx. time of an hour per bolt plus parts...so give or take $500! Nice!!

So I am booked in at a shop just down from Volco/1010 tires on Marine for Monday, but I'm wondering if anyone can either a) - recommend another option, or b) - tackle this job privately using your skills and tools, to the tune of saving me the $100 per hour. Yes, of course I will pay you, but it'd be great if you could save me a few bucks! This is a bad time of year, obviously!

One option I have heard is an option, is to weld some metal (inside the hole with the nub) onto the actual broken nub, essentially building it back up enough to be able to then unscrew the Frankenstein nub out leaving the wheel stud intact and still usable. Or even torching the stud/broken nub enough that it will loosen? If that's not a myth?

Anyways, sorry this is so damn long, but I needed to explain this as best as I could. ANY advice and/or help is appreciated and this may be a way for someone handy to make some extra Christmas money =)

Cheers!

[entrax]

hello, yay more mr2's!

got close up pics? it will all depend on how much of the nut is still on there. if there's just a little bit, you could use a pick (tiny) and hammer and maybe crack the nut loose? what about different keys? maybe a different shaped one might just grab onto what's left...

[mb_]

TL;DR, the wheel studs broke? If so, it's a pretty straight forward job. Hammer out the old stud, install new stud

Welcome to the MR2 ownership Btw. Your current issue will be the least of your worries ask me how I know

Edit: Reading > me lol. Yeah pics would be great

[toddzilla]

Haha! I like how the first reply is another MR2 guy =)

There isn't enough of the nut left for the tool to grab on to - and what is there is so tight, it just strips what's left when you put pressure on any of them. Pretty much half of all the nuts - which are only about 1.5"-2" long - are snapped off. So the tool used only grabs the bottom 20% of the nut. No other tool will grab onto the remainder. A shop on Bridgeport even had a specially lathed down tool for tight holes to get in there to hopefully claw onto it, but to no avail.

The pick and hammer idea is a new one...can you chip away at hardened steel? That may be a possibility?

[toddzilla]

To mb_ - what's 'TL and DR?'

The studs are still intact - there are 4 broken tuner lug nuts holding onto them so the wheels can't be removed til they somehow come off. If I get the studs drilled out, then I will need to have 4 new studs punched back in...which I'm trying to find a more cost effective way around, though I fear there isn't. Here's 3 of the 4 broken (tops) of each tuner nut, if that helps at all? (I put a standard sized lug nut beside it as size reference)

[fliptuner]

How many wheels have stuck lugnuts and are they on the front or rear?

Do you care what happens to these wheels?

[toddzilla]

One wheel got away with all of the nuts breaking loose, but 3 of the 4 wheels have at least 1 broken nut remaining (1 wheel has 2, thus 4 in total)

Other than a painted lip, the wheels are mint and I don't mind the style or bronze centres, so I will either strip the white lip off and sell the set, or keep them if they look that much better once it's back to the stock machined/metal lip. So yes, I do care about keeping them nice, if at all possible. If it involves torching and I get some blemish or burning/discoloring, then I will plasti-dip them or something...maybe powdercoat?

[fliptuner]

Fair enough. I will warn you that because the lugholes are so small, there's a good chance the wheels will get damaged to some degree.

[Qmx323]

good lord how tight were they?!?!?

[toddzilla]

Well, if I have to go thru the drilling-out of the studs, they should be able to get to them without causing much damage to the face of the wheel. I expect a little scarring of the inside of the holes, but once the lug nuts are put back on, it should hide that fairly well, I would think?

[toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Qmx323

good lord how tight were they?!?!?

In many cases, I had to literally stand on my tire iron to get enough force to break them loose!! Just a 'bit' tight! =P

[cruz-in]

i think i was driving beside you the other day

i was in the blue sti. i think i gave a thumbs up to your passenger lol


nice car!

used to have an American 94' turbo a few years back. fun car to play arount with , but yes it was a bitch to work on from time to time.

[LenovoTurbo]

Originally Posted by toddzilla

In many cases, I had to literally stand on my tire iron to get enough force to break them loose!! Just a 'bit' tight! =P

Sorry to say, but the standing on the tire iron is what most likely caused the nut to snap off. It applies too much lateral force instead of rotational force.

In the future, should use a long pipe for leverage or an impact gun instead.

[RRxtar]

I dont know how yours look, but could you weld a nut onto the broken lug nut? and use an impact/electric impact gun on them.

[toddzilla]

Originally Posted by RRxtar

I dont know how yours look, but could you weld a nut onto the broken lug nut? and use an impact/electric impact gun on them.

This is what I'm thinking. What remains in the hole is a broken shard, but there is a good 3/4" I would assume to grab onto. I didn't discuss this option with the shop that's tentatively drilling out the studs, but maybe I should beforehand? If I can salvage the original studs and save time/$, it's win-win!

[fliptuner]

Originally Posted by RRxtar

I dont know how yours look, but could you weld a nut onto the broken lug nut? and use an impact/electric impact gun on them.

By the looks of the wheels and broken bits, there's no room to weld to what's left of the lugnut. Also, drilling down the length of the stud, centred, is extremely difficult, especially given it's tensile strength.

Good luck.

BTW, I'm assuming they look something like this (2 broken, 2 still mounted):

Spoiler!

[Gululu]

At this point the best option is to use Snap-On's Worn Lug Nut Extractor impact socket set
also you are supposed to manually imitate the impacting action when loosening lug nuts by hand

[toddzilla]

Originally Posted by ICE BOY

By the looks of the wheels and broken bits, there's no room to weld to what's left of the lugnut. Also, drilling down the length of the stud, centred, is extremely difficult, especially given it's tensile strength.

Good luck.

BTW, I'm assuming they look something like this (2 broken, 2 still mounted):

Spoiler!

yup - that's pretty much exactly what it looks like! One wheel has 2 broken off, and 2 others have 1 broken nut. Fun!

And gululu - I was avised to maybe try one of these out on another forum?

[Gululu]

something like this that can stand up to impact and hammering:

Blue Point Tools Worn Lug Nut Remover Twist Socket Snap on Tools Extension | eBay

hammer it onto the soft aluminum aftermarket lugs and try loosening again with big air compressor

[toddzilla]

As great as all of these suggestions are, I don't have an impact gun or drill and I can't service my car in my underground - it's prohibited. I was hoping somebody had the skills to rent their services out. Shy of that, it's Monday in the shop =(

[Iron Chef]

I've taken broken wheel nuts all the time.
Because of the small recess hole your won't be able to get one of those tools listed above to fit.

You could try to hammer on a 3/8 drive 12 point socket.

What you will probrably have to do is get a die grinder with a very thin carbide bit to shave th lug nut till you can chisel IT off.

[fliptuner]

The problem with most extraction sockets is that they have thick walls. There's only a few mm's between the lugnut and the hole, so make sure the extractor will actually fit before you buy it.

Short of that, I'd probably go for a straight carbide burr and grind out opposing sides of the remaining lugnut. Another idea is to get a holesaw that's same size as the stud, remove the centering bit and drill around the stud and through the lugnut, being careful to stop before reaching the lug seat.

[kross9]

TL DR: Too long didn't Read

id suggest getting a torque wrench so this doesn't happen to you next time

[RRxtar]

Drilling the stud is going to be tough. Those studs are above grade 10.9 and hard as fuck.

When it comes to time to undo em, heat em ip real good even a propane torch will work

[skyxx]

Are there any photos of the broken lug nuts on the wheels?

I would suggest grabbing a "tungsten carbide bit" with a dremel and scave both sides of the nut until you're close to the stud threads. Then use a small chisel or punch to knock the two halves loose. It'll be time consuming but it might save your wheels and possibly your studs. Studs are easy to replace if damaged.