Coffee - how do you drink it and why?

[TjAlmeida]

Beautiful home setup, the Zero has great reviews. How was ordering from the UK? Been working in a small town in AB and decided to splurge on a setup. I went with a Profitec Pro 300, I don’t have a comparable to a prior machine but so far so happy. Heats up quickly, PID is user friendly, I think the steaming wand could be better. For a grinder I’m using an older Compak k3 I picked up on Kijiji. Commercial grade grinder but I find the grind setting very vague.

What a learning curve, between YouTube and trial and error I’ve gotten close to come decent consistency. I found the biggest help was having one dose in the grinder at a time, where before I had the hopper full of beans and I would be chasing grind settings constantly. I don’t think it helps that I only have 1 cup a day and the closest roaster is in Medicine Hat, and by the end of the week I find I’m chasing the beans with the grinder settings.

[Hondaracer]

You guys weighing your grinds?

[TjAlmeida]

Yes, now using the blind filter to weigh in my dose before grinding. 18g in, 36-40g out. Depends how alert I am at 5 in the morning.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

You guys weighing your grinds?

Definitely. You should weight both your grind (that goes into the portafilter) and the extraction (liquid). That's the only way you can fine-tune your extraction and grind size. Many people based solely on time, but it's actually the time needed for your extraction. The rule of thumb for a 1:2 ratio (18g in, 36g out) is 24-30sec. If you aren't doing that, you should adjust your grind size accordingly.

Of course, depending on what you are trying to do, you can choose your ratio of 1:1, 1:2, 1:5... etc.

Originally Posted by TjAlmeida

Beautiful home setup, the Zero has great reviews. How was ordering from the UK? Been working in a small town in AB and decided to splurge on a setup. I went with a Profitec Pro 300, I don’t have a comparable to a prior machine but so far so happy. Heats up quickly, PID is user friendly, I think the steaming wand could be better. For a grinder I’m using an older Compak k3 I picked up on Kijiji. Commercial grade grinder but I find the grind setting very vague.

What a learning curve, between YouTube and trial and error I’ve gotten close to come decent consistency. I found the biggest help was having one dose in the grinder at a time, where before I had the hopper full of beans and I would be chasing grind settings constantly. I don’t think it helps that I only have 1 cup a day and the closest roaster is in Medicine Hat, and by the end of the week I find I’m chasing the beans with the grinder settings.

Profitec are great value/performance. Before setting my mind on the Rocket, I was thinking on Profitec 700/ECM Syncronika. And really it doesn't matter what machine you use, if you are willing to work, you can get good shots. The few things that need to happen for a good espresso are temperature, pressure and flow. Only reason I went with the R Cinquantotto was because it's brand new version of a highly regarded machine and if I were to change in a few years down the road, it'd still be relatively new with all the latest bells and whistles, vs. the Syncronika which is a few years old and I suspect an update is coming soon.

Usually on high-end machines, they got those down to a science. I did some quick testing on temp... my Rocket pumps out water with 0 variation on temp (with a thermometer) and pressure (reading on gauge). When the machine says it's 201 degrees... I get 201 degrees throughout in 5 consecutive shots and the pressure doesn't move at all... always dead on. So the better the machine, the less work one needs to put into as they are highly consistent.

Shopping for the NZ was simple. Order on Indiegogo (the official NZ site). And it shipped according to the time it promised.

Got dinged for $120 on taxes, but it's actually better than expected. Because supposedly grinder is appliances and subject to some duty. I was expecting something like 210 for the ding, but turned out for the better.

[TjAlmeida]

Nice, I think I’m going to upgrade to a single dose grinder. The Niche Zero is definitely on the radar. I was also looking at the Ceado E5SD.

[Hondaracer]

So you guys are weighing as your pulling your shots then, like your cup etc. Is sitting on the scale

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

So you guys are weighing as your pulling your shots then, like your cup etc. Is sitting on the scale

yeah, just get a cheapo kitchen scale that's thin enough to fit under the cup and has some water resistance. There are some high-end dedicated ones, but I honestly don't think it's worth the money.

Ideally you want a scale that goes down to 0.1g. Weight your portafilter, set to 0, put grinded coffee in to the desired weight. Then put the scale under the portafilter (while it's on the machine), cup on, set to 0, and start brewing. See if you can get to 1:2 (the usual ratio for espresso drinks) ratio (say 18g in, 36g out) in 22-30sec. If it's doing it too fast, get the grind finer, and coarser if too slow.

You should adjust the grind everytime you change your beans... some more anal drinkers do it on every bag.

[Hondaracer]

I adjust my grind but just based on feel. I also have that built in pressure gauge on my 870 so it’s a bit easier than doing it blind. But yea I’m gonna start trying to weigh it out a bit more see if I can taste the improvement

[Expresso]

The main benefit to weighing output and measuring time is so that when you pull that perfect shot you have the parameters. That way you can theoretically pull that same shot consistently. And when you make adjustments you know which variable was changed.

[cafe22]

I suggest the Brewista Smart II scale. A good balance in price and performance.

Pros
-rechargeable via USB
-portable and slim (I can fit it on my GS3 drip tray with a cap cup without height issue).
-Various modes for both espresso/pour over setup

Cons
Still over 100 bucks
Slight lag when comparing to a Acaia Lunar
No app connection (but I never use it anyways on my Acaia).

[TjAlmeida]

Yes, I weigh the beans in a blind filter before going into the grinder, then also put the glass onto the scale and pull the shot into the glass on the scale. I still struggle with consistency, I’m not sure if it’s due to the old grinder, or because the beans I’m using I’m not 100% on how fresh they are and as they age through the week I’m constantly trying to adjust the grinder to stay within 25-30sec with 36g out.

I use a Hario v60 scale.

When you guys time your shot for 25-30sec, do you start counting from first drip or from when the timer starts.

[bcrdukes]

10 years ago, I started the timer from the moment I began extraction (flipped the switch.) Now, I time from first drip, although I still do both to measure the time for pre-infusion. A lot of lighter roast profiles simply weren't available 10 years ago, so extraction generally took 3 - 5 seconds depending on the machine you used. That, and all you had really were medium to dark roasts, which did not call for such tight grind profiles ,and machines needing over 9 bar of pump pressure.

With machines and grinders having so much more technology and advancements like pressure profiling and whatnot, pre-infusion times aren't really considered anymore, hence why people began counting from first drip. 25 - 30 seconds is considered by many more of a second wave, traditional thought, and no longer applicable with todays light roasts, so use time as a loose parameter.

Having said all that, there's no right or wrong way. As long as it tastes good, and according to your preference, or meets the general guidelines of the roaster, you're golden.

[GLOW]

damn you guys are all fancy. here i am with a new nespresso machine thinking i'm posh

my vertuo has started squeaking after a week of use though, not sure if that's normal

[Farfetched]

Originally Posted by TjAlmeida

Yes, I weigh the beans in a blind filter before going into the grinder, then also put the glass onto the scale and pull the shot into the glass on the scale. I still struggle with consistency, I’m not sure if it’s due to the old grinder, or because the beans I’m using I’m not 100% on how fresh they are and as they age through the week I’m constantly trying to adjust the grinder to stay within 25-30sec with 36g out.

I use a Hario v60 scale.

When you guys time your shot for 25-30sec, do you start counting from first drip or from when the timer starts.

The grinder is the most obvious choice, but also the most expensive. I've found that those $20 distribution tools actually help a little. Fresh beans to a somewhat lesser extent. Are you measuring the grinds after they've been through the grinder?

[cafe22]

Originally Posted by TjAlmeida

When you guys time your shot for 25-30sec, do you start counting from first drip or from when the timer starts.

I start the timer when I activate the pump. A lot can happen during the first 5-8 seconds so it is good practice to time it to ensure the pre-infusion is consistent.

Adjustment in pre-infusion time has been the latest 'trend' in coffee the past couple of years. Some are going for 30+ second preinfusion followed by a slow ramped extraction. It's great for light roast and delicate coffee (e.g. geisha).

[Akinari]

Originally Posted by GLOW

damn you guys are all fancy. here i am with a new nespresso machine thinking i'm posh

my vertuo has started squeaking after a week of use though, not sure if that's normal

Vertuo owner here, can confirm squeaks and unnervingly loud vibrating while it makes coffee I clean it regularly (water cycle) and have descaled it once as well, no changes.

The ease of use is the selling point for me. Besides, it's about as good as capsule coffee gets, especially when they have those limited release capsules that are actually quite good.

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by GLOW

damn you guys are all fancy. here i am with a new nespresso machine thinking i'm posh

my vertuo has started squeaking after a week of use though, not sure if that's normal

You're probably the brightest of the bunch in not having to go through the pains of all this shit we're doing for a coffee.

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by cafe22

Adjustment in pre-infusion time has been the latest 'trend' in coffee the past couple of years. Some are going for 30+ second preinfusion followed by a slow ramped extraction. It's great for light roast and delicate coffee (e.g. geisha).

Good point.

I think this is where people hit brick walls where it does not make sense to drop $6500+ on a machine capable of extraction manipulation. Plebs like me will never want to go that far to achieve that God-like shot. While it can be achieved with machines like Rockets and whatnot, it will never be the same as say a La Marzocco Linea Mini. Second wave for life.

[TjAlmeida]

Originally Posted by Farfetched

The grinder is the most obvious choice, but also the most expensive. I've found that those $20 distribution tools actually help a little. Fresh beans to a somewhat lesser extent. Are you measuring the grinds after they've been through the grinder?

I don’t every time, but occasionally will check grinder retention, I’m not losing much every dose. The machine came with two portafilters so I may bring the spare to work and see if they can cut the bottom off to make a budget bottomless portafilter so I can see if I’m getting any channeling.

I’m consistently 4-5 seconds before first drop, and time out 36g liquid between 25-30 total seconds. I’m not 100% if it’s 1:2 ratio after 25-30 sec or if it’s 1:2 after 25-30 second from first drop. I’ve been going off total time rather from first drop.

[cafe22]

to help with channeling issue, you could go for the geeky way of using an Aeropress filter on top of the puck.

https://www.baristahustle.com/blog/e...he-coffee-bed/

For medium-dark espresso blends roast coffee (e.g. old school espresso from 49th, Equinox Espresso from Agro, Eastside from JJ bean), I find the traditional 1:2 ratio to work best for milk based drinks. For more delicate SO espresso, I usually go for a 1:3 ratio to stretch out the flavour profile, anything less and it is way too overpowering (e.g. too acidic, metallic mouth feel).

[bcrdukes]

Having a portafilter collar helps a lot so grinds don't spill everywhere. After grinding, I take a toothpick or a fork used for heur d'oeuvres to evenly distribute the grinds and to clear up any clumps. You can buy fancy ones but I never bothered.

[Expresso]

Originally Posted by cafe22

I start the timer when I activate the pump. A lot can happen during the first 5-8 seconds so it is good practice to time it to ensure the pre-infusion is consistent.

Adjustment in pre-infusion time has been the latest 'trend' in coffee the past couple of years. Some are going for 30+ second preinfusion followed by a slow ramped extraction. It's great for light roast and delicate coffee (e.g. geisha).

This.

Extraction time starts once water hits the puck so preinfusion would be factored in. Highly debated topic though.

[Expresso]

Originally Posted by TjAlmeida

Yes, I weigh the beans in a blind filter before going into the grinder, then also put the glass onto the scale and pull the shot into the glass on the scale. I still struggle with consistency, I’m not sure if it’s due to the old grinder, or because the beans I’m using I’m not 100% on how fresh they are and as they age through the week I’m constantly trying to adjust the grinder to stay within 25-30sec with 36g out.

I use a Hario v60 scale.

When you guys time your shot for 25-30sec, do you start counting from first drip or from when the timer starts.

Having fresh beans really help, not sure what you are using right now. But random things like temperature, humidity can all affect shot times but not to a huge degree that you are describing though. It's usually by week 2 or 3+ when I need to re-dial in the bag as the shot will start to run a tad faster.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Expresso

Having fresh beans really help, not sure what you are using right now. But random things like temperature, humidity can all affect shot times but not to a huge degree that you are describing though. It's usually by week 2 or 3+ when I need to re-dial in the bag as the shot will start to run a tad faster.

I actually did an experiment on this... buying fresh roasted (like day0) beans and just leave it in my container for beans that has valves for any gas to escape.

From my notes, while keeping everything else constant throughout (same machine, grinder, dose... etc), it turns out that I like the bean the most around 2wks mark... then it goes worse from about 3wks on...

It might has something to do with the beans, but from my experience, the beans need to be "aged" following roasted for it to settle... at least in the weather/humidity we have in Vancouver.

[Hondaracer]

I always experience this.

So generally I buy the same beans for extended periods of time and for the last 6 months or so I’ve been on the same Moja beans.

With the 870 I’ve got the built in hopper/grinder and generally I let the beans run out until I put new beans in but lately I’ve been lazy and just top up the hopper with new beans before the old run out

It’s crazy, you could pull a couple shots, go to pull the next and it’s wayyyyy off because the new beans have made it to the bottom. Generally I have to go 2 or 3 notches finer with the new beans