Coffee - how do you drink it and why?

[JHatta]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Our friend is a potter and has made us some proper latte cups and also have the little duck handled espresso cups lol

How are you liking the 870XL? I'm in the market for one.

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by ntan

They push you really hard to get the machines to be serviced by them (vacuum breaker service ~$150), but since my machine is now out of warranty, they'll sell me an entire vacuum breaker replacement (like the one cafe22 linked), but not the o-rings themselves. Reading forums, it seems like it's just the o-rings that fail.

Same thing happened to me when I went to Faema Canada to buy the food grade grease for my o-rings on the Rocket (they are the distributor.) Basically told me to drop dead, eat dust, and get lost, but were happy to charge me $120 to do the service. I was like WTF. I originally brought my machine to idrinkcoffee.com for service I couldn't do myself (it was originally purchased there) and I don't think I'll ever let them touch my machine ever again. I ended up just buying the grease from them.

[whitev70r]

Yes. Have you tried?

https://www.caffeumbria.ca/

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by JHatta

How are you liking the 870XL? I'm in the market for one.

It’s been great. We’ve had it for over 2 years now I believe and it’s been bullet proof, at least 2-3 double shots daily over its lifespan so far with zero issues.

I’m not sure what the pricing is like currently but when we got ours Bestbuy was selling it for like $830 at the same time amazon had it on for $499 so BB price matched and beat the diff so we ended up getting it taxes in for like $460 lol..

Although I strongly discourage any purchases at bestbuy after my warantee debacle

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

Yes. Have you tried?

https://www.caffeumbria.ca/

Yes, I have.

[LuHua]

Originally Posted by ntan

Wow. I'm surprised you were able to recognize the setup from his IG video, haha. I actually became friends with Edmond (owner/roaster of Moving Coffee for those who don't know him) a few years back when I was fanboying his coffee. My fav was his Guji espresso back in 2018... literally tasted like a blue berry smoothie from Jugo Juice.

The next purchase on my mind is maybe an OCD v3?

Thanks for mentioning Moving Coffee, just found out about them and going to give their espresso roasts a shot. As for the distribution tool, give the BT Wedge a consideration too, it's another popular alternative to the OCD and in the same price range.

[cafe22]

$150 USD + for a metal wedge that moves coffee around....

Just grab the ones on aliexpress or amazon. They do the same thing at 1/3 of the price!

[bcrdukes]

I grabbed one of the wedges from eBay and it works just fine.

[roastpuff]

My dad is really picky about his coffee, and he's recently been complaining that the quality of the roasts in Vancouver from the well-known places like Matchstick, Pallet, etc. has gone down - has anyone else experienced a similar decline? Or is he just being picky and grouchy after being stuck at home for over 6 months?

[cafe22]

Originally Posted by roastpuff

My dad is really picky about his coffee, and he's recently been complaining that the quality of the roasts in Vancouver from the well-known places like Matchstick, Pallet, etc. has gone down - has anyone else experienced a similar decline? Or is he just being picky and grouchy after being stuck at home for over 6 months?

Is he buying blends or single origin coffee? And is he using it for espresso or drip?

He might have been unlucky and getting some blended roasts with bad beans.

[bcrdukes]

I will go out on a limb and be the bad guy for a bit and generalize (emphasis on generalize!) that a lot of coffee roasters in Vancouver aren't very consistent. They are a dime a dozen, and roasting coffee is both a science and art; It's a craft that needs to be practiced and perfected through time. With Matchstick being a revolving door (Google them on recent news) you have people who come and go all the time roasting their coffees.

You will have the niche and specialty roasters like Moving Coffee who do a really good job roasting and blending, and a guy like Edmund's got his formula and secret for success planned out. Same for the guys like 49th Parallel (sometimes hit and miss) or Vince @ Casa Del Caffe, Moja Coffee, JJ Bean, and maybe Elysian and the usual suspects, they've mastered their craft through time and tradition. Even with new entrants to the game like Timbertrain, they lack consistency, but in general, are okay at best. Some of my favourite roasters, ironically, come out of Asia. They have their coffee game pat down straight, and they don't fuck around, but I'm not ordering 340g of roasted coffee, only to show up degassed by the time it gets here, and pay $50 in shipping or whatever it costs.

I think you'll need to ask your dad what he prefers - be it traditional Italian roasts, or new age / third wave coffees like single origins and lighter roasts. I still like my traditional Italian roasts because there's a level of consistency and flavour profile I prefer. If I come across a good third wave coffee, you'll hear me rave about it, and that barely ever happens. If ever. lol

[Hondaracer]

If you’re brewing drip coffee and flipping between roasters I’d say it’s pretty hard to determine the difference from one bag to the next. Your pallet better be crazy dialed in if that’s the case.

Anyone go to La Foret off imperial? I give them credit they nailed their shop with the traditional French bakery model, great food and pastries. I’ve dabbled with their beans before but seems like they’ve switched blends a little since last time so I grabbed another bag:



How much do you guys spend on beans per month? Feels like I’m spending $40+ :/

Edit* lol Dukes brings up timber train literally as I was making this post

I’ve met the owner/curator of Milano coffee a few times as we have mutual friends. Made the mistake in engaging him in a discussion about coffee. The guy seems like a full blown coke head the way he goes on about it but I’m assuming that’s just his personality and not an actual drug problem lol.. his blends though are pretty rediculous and not in a particularly good way imo. Like adding 5-10% of one bean in a 6-7 bean blend? I dunno man

[Nlkko]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

I will go out on a limb and be the bad guy for a bit and generalize (emphasis on generalize!) that a lot of coffee roasters in Vancouver aren't very consistent. They are a dime a dozen, and roasting coffee is both a science and art; It's a craft that needs to be practiced and perfected through time. With Matchstick being a revolving door (Google them on recent news) you have people who come and go all the time roasting their coffees.

You will have the niche and specialty roasters like Moving Coffee who do a really good job roasting and blending, and a guy like Edmund's got his formula and secret for success planned out. Same for the guys like 49th Parallel (sometimes hit and miss) or Vince @ Casa Del Caffe, Moja Coffee, JJ Bean, and maybe Elysian and the usual suspects, they've mastered their craft through time and tradition. Even with new entrants to the game like Timbertrain, they lack consistency, but in general, are okay at best. Some of my favourite roasters, ironically, come out of Asia. They have their coffee game pat down straight, and they don't fuck around, but I'm not ordering 340g of roasted coffee, only to show up degassed by the time it gets here, and pay $50 in shipping or whatever it costs.

I think you'll need to ask your dad what he prefers - be it traditional Italian roasts, or new age / third wave coffees like single origins and lighter roasts. I still like my traditional Italian roasts because there's a level of consistency and flavour profile I prefer. If I come across a good third wave coffee, you'll hear me rave about it, and that barely ever happens. If ever. lol

Which roaster in Vancouver do you recommend for strictly cold brew? I've always like light roast. Used to go to Matchstick but have stayed away because of recent news.

[bcrdukes]

The owner of Milano has won a lot of international awards for his roasts, and I quite enjoy them. I'm willing to put him on my top 3 favourites in Vancouver.

It's completely normal for roasters to use a certain percentage of certain beans as part of a blend, so it's not outrageous for him to declare so. Blends are often a closely guarded secret, no different than say a blended scotch or whiskey.

Edit: @ Hondaracer - I spend on average, about $40 a month on roasted coffee, and that's rounding up. I go through a 340g bag approximately every two weeks, assuming most bags are between $18 - $20 each. I can spend less depending on where I buy my coffee, and availability/convenience. I'm not driving to Little Italy or Little Portugal just to buy a bag of coffee for $16. The drive and parking alone would already cost that much lol

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by Nlkko

Which roaster in Vancouver do you recommend for strictly cold brew? I've always like light roast. Used to go to Matchstick but have stayed away because of recent news.

I'm afraid I can't answer this one as I left Vancouver a while back, and cold brew only started to hit the local market. I'm sure a lot has changed. I believe on my last visit to Vancouver, most roasters/shops will carry a light to medium roast cold brew on tap. if not, the canned variety. Very few cold brews come in a dark roast anyway, and I think medium roast is as far as they will go. Hopefully some of the local guys can chime in. Sorry!

If you can ever find it, Hatch Coffee Roasters makes a pretty good cold brew. They are based out of Toronto (Markham) but I know they have a distribution network, but I believe you can also order direct.

Interestingly - This is hard to get now because of COVID-19, but if you ever get a chance, pick up some of Trader Joe's cold brew packs. They are cheap/inexpensive, and allows you to brew a very nice, great tasting cold brew at home. One of my favourites.

[Nlkko]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

I'm afraid I can't answer this one as I left Vancouver a while back, and cold brew only started to hit the local market. I'm sure a lot has changed. I believe on my last visit to Vancouver, most roasters/shops will carry a light to medium roast cold brew on tap. if not, the canned variety. Very few cold brews come in a dark roast anyway, and I think medium roast is as far as they will go. Hopefully some of the local guys can chime in. Sorry!

If you can ever find it, Hatch Coffee Roasters makes a pretty good cold brew. They are based out of Toronto (Markham) but I know they have a distribution network, but I believe you can also order direct.

Interestingly - This is hard to get now because of COVID-19, but if you ever get a chance, pick up some of Trader Joe's cold brew packs. They are cheap/inexpensive, and allows you to brew a very nice, great tasting cold brew at home. One of my favourites.

Actually I was asking about places that sell beans. But I assume one could find beans at those places that sells coffee too.

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by Nlkko

Actually I was asking about places that sell beans. But I assume one could find beans at those places that sells coffee too.

You'd have to ask the shops what they recommend for cold brew. Certain blends and single origins can easily taste awful when brewed cold. Try the usual suspects like Elysian, Pallet, Modus, etc. They should have a recommendation. Sorry I can't be any more help.

Edit: Off the top of my head, and memory, in no particular order or preference:

1. Pallet Coffee Roasters
2. Elysian Coffee
3. Timbertrain Coffee Roasters
4. Origins Coffee Roasters (hidden somewhere inside Granville Island, I could never find them)
5. Matchstick (LOL!)
6. JJ Bean
7. Kafka's Coffee & Tea
8. Modus Coffee
9. Moja Coffee
10. 49th Parallel
11. Moving Coffee

I'm probably missing a tonne of shops, so hopefully some of the guys can chime in. Best to e-mail the roasters directly to ask them what they recommend.

Edit #2: Take a look at Vancouver Coffee Snob's blog on a list of coffee roasters. Some of the shops in my list made his honourable mentions, but his list is sponsored, so take it for what you will. There are some shops I'm not familiar with, but likely popped up since I left Vancouver. Disclosure: I am not Vancouver Coffee Snob.

[bcrdukes]

@ cafe22 & ntan

Could either of you kindly describe your espresso routine on your LMs? I'm asking because 9/10 times I go to a shop that uses an LM, the espresso comes out scalding hot, and is not drinkable.

The other day, I was at a notable roaster/shop, I ordered and espresso, and even after a few minutes, it was so hot, I burned my tongue. LMs are known for their temperature stability, but I am not convinced that their machines need a cooling flush among their two or three groupheads to bring down the water temperature, especially at a high volume shop. That or something is just totally off, and quite frankly, it's annoying.

[ntan]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

@ cafe22 & ntan

Could either of you kindly describe your espresso routine on your LMs? I'm asking because 9/10 times I go to a shop that uses an LM, the espresso comes out scalding hot, and is not drinkable.

The other day, I was at a notable roaster/shop, I ordered and espresso, and even after a few minutes, it was so hot, I burned my tongue. LMs are known for their temperature stability, but I am not convinced that their machines need a cooling flush among their two or three groupheads to bring down the water temperature, especially at a high volume shop. That or something is just totally off, and quite frankly, it's annoying.

Hmm interesting... I've never had this issue before (personally at home or at coffee shops)

My detailed espresso routine:
1) Weigh shot (usually 18-19g into a 17g LM Strada (VST) basket) + single spray of water (RDT method- helps eliminate/minimize static when grinding)
2) Grind into doser and transfer to portafilter
3) Use a metal pick for WDT (distribution method), followed by a quick stockfleth (to get an even bed), and some light vertical tapping, then tamp
4) I always do a quick flush (1 sec) before putting my portafilter in. My machine is currently set at 198.5F.
4) Pre-infusion @ 3 bar (I have a mechanical paddle, so I can play around with this). Usually takes ~8-10s before coffee starts hitting the cup/scale
5) I bring it up to either 6 bar or 9 bar to complete the brew. Total time ~25-35 (depending on PI, sometimes I stretch it longer than 10s)

I do not pre-heat my espresso cup so that attributes to a temperature drop.

[cafe22]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

@ cafe22 & ntan

Could either of you kindly describe your espresso routine on your LMs? I'm asking because 9/10 times I go to a shop that uses an LM, the espresso comes out scalding hot, and is not drinkable.

The other day, I was at a notable roaster/shop, I ordered and espresso, and even after a few minutes, it was so hot, I burned my tongue. LMs are known for their temperature stability, but I am not convinced that their machines need a cooling flush among their two or three groupheads to bring down the water temperature, especially at a high volume shop. That or something is just totally off, and quite frankly, it's annoying.

My usual routine at home using blended medium roast:

-leave portafilter inside machine while I grind my beans
-take out portafilter, place ground coffee, distribute, tamp
-Press pre-program button to flush screen for 1.5 seconds to warm it up
-wipe off tray and place scale + cup
-Press pre-program 2 shot espresso button (0-1.5 sec start, hold for 'pre-infusion' from 1.5-3.5 sec)
-Shot time ranges from 32-38 seconds, depending on the coffee
-take out portafilter, dispense puck and rinse screen.

My boiler temperature is currently at 93.5c with my offset at 1.7c (confirmed with a SCACE about 2 years ago, so it's probably not as accurate as it should be).

[bcrdukes]

Thanks for that!

My only suspicion or theory to this scalding espresso problem are poorly maintained machines.

If a shop has three group heads, I would expect (or at least hope!) they are cycling through the various group heads, or at least maximizing their group heads for productivity. However, the general observation is that is that most baristas will only stick to one group head throughout their shift, leaving the other two group heads sitting idle. I would attribute to the grouphead flush a problem of the past when the E61 group head was abundant, but with companies like LM et al, these issues have been solved for the most part.

[cafe22]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

I'm probably missing a tonne of shops, so hopefully some of the guys can chime in. Best to e-mail the roasters directly to ask them what they recommend.

Here are a few Roasters I recently ordered from. All offer free shipping with a purchase >40 or 50 dollars.

1. https://www.hatchcrafted.com/shop/all/ - Hatch Coffee (East Coast) Similar to Moving Coffee, good place to check out if you want to go ballin on some 'rare' coffee. They specialize mainly on roasting nordic light to light/medium roast.

2. Bows x Arrows. Victoria based but I believe Ubuntu on Fraser and The General Store still carry them

3. https://detourcoffee.com Detour Coffee (Toronto based but they have a sales rep and supplier here)

4. https://www.drumroaster.com/coffees - Drumroaster Coffee Roaster (Van Island) IMO, their espresso blends are very approachable for all sorts of espresso drinkers and not bad for cold-brew too.

5. Handworks Coffee (New Westminster) I haven't been there since the change in ownership, but I believe they are still sticking to using darker roast coffee, Japanese style. I've enjoyed making Japanese style cold brew with their blends.

[cafe22]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

Thanks for that!

My only suspicion or theory to this scalding espresso problem are poorly maintained machines.

If a shop has three group heads, I would expect (or at least hope!) they are cycling through the various group heads, or at least maximizing their group heads for productivity. However, the general observation is that is that most baristas will only stick to one group head throughout their shift, leaving the other two group heads sitting idle. I would attribute to the grouphead flush a problem of the past when the E61 group head was abundant, but with companies like LM et al, these issues have been solved for the most part.

Scale build up on the thermocouple is a common cause (due to inadequate or poorly maintained filtration system).

[roastpuff]

Originally Posted by cafe22

Is he buying blends or single origin coffee? And is he using it for espresso or drip?

He might have been unlucky and getting some blended roasts with bad beans.

He's buying mostly single-origin, but will also buy blends on occasion. He's using it for pour-over coffee, and he has his routine with a Hario V60, and has a electronic temperature control gooseneck kettle, timer/scale combo and practices his technique almost every day. Three bags that he gave to me after saying that they weren't good after trying them 3-4 times: Matchstick Catalogue No. 42, Luna Nano Challa Techno Peach and Matchstick Kahuihia(sp?). I haven't tried them on my own machine (Moccamaster + Hario hand grinder) so I can't say whether they're worse or better than the Pallet Benchmark that I've been drinking.

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

I will go out on a limb and be the bad guy for a bit and generalize (emphasis on generalize!) that a lot of coffee roasters in Vancouver aren't very consistent. They are a dime a dozen, and roasting coffee is both a science and art; It's a craft that needs to be practiced and perfected through time. With Matchstick being a revolving door (Google them on recent news) you have people who come and go all the time roasting their coffees.

You will have the niche and specialty roasters like Moving Coffee who do a really good job roasting and blending, and a guy like Edmund's got his formula and secret for success planned out. Same for the guys like 49th Parallel (sometimes hit and miss) or Vince @ Casa Del Caffe, Moja Coffee, JJ Bean, and maybe Elysian and the usual suspects, they've mastered their craft through time and tradition. Even with new entrants to the game like Timbertrain, they lack consistency, but in general, are okay at best. Some of my favourite roasters, ironically, come out of Asia. They have their coffee game pat down straight, and they don't fuck around, but I'm not ordering 340g of roasted coffee, only to show up degassed by the time it gets here, and pay $50 in shipping or whatever it costs.

I think you'll need to ask your dad what he prefers - be it traditional Italian roasts, or new age / third wave coffees like single origins and lighter roasts. I still like my traditional Italian roasts because there's a level of consistency and flavour profile I prefer. If I come across a good third wave coffee, you'll hear me rave about it, and that barely ever happens. If ever. lol

He's a third-wave coffee kind of guy. Single origin stuff, he likes mostly African coffee (Ethiopia, Kenya, etc.) with fairly light/floral flavor profile notes. But he's been stuck at home for months on end, and he is trying out coffees to find new flavours and other stuff. He has a dream of importing coffee here, as he has friends with coffee plantations in Indonesia, but I'm not willing to be his underling on that one as I'm busy enough as it is.

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

If you’re brewing drip coffee and flipping between roasters I’d say it’s pretty hard to determine the difference from one bag to the next. Your pallet better be crazy dialed in if that’s the case.

Anyone go to La Foret off imperial? I give them credit they nailed their shop with the traditional French bakery model, great food and pastries. I’ve dabbled with their beans before but seems like they’ve switched blends a little since last time so I grabbed another bag:

How much do you guys spend on beans per month? Feels like I’m spending $40+ :/

Edit* lol Dukes brings up timber train literally as I was making this post

I’ve met the owner/curator of Milano coffee a few times as we have mutual friends. Made the mistake in engaging him in a discussion about coffee. The guy seems like a full blown coke head the way he goes on about it but I’m assuming that’s just his personality and not an actual drug problem lol.. his blends though are pretty rediculous and not in a particularly good way imo. Like adding 5-10% of one bean in a 6-7 bean blend? I dunno man

Well, what my dad is doing is like a tasting every morning, and he has a notebook full of notes for his observations that day. He's even made my mom do it for him because she has a very dialed in palate. He used to prefer Matchstick, but switched to Moja and other places. Right now he's complaining that everywhere else is consistently not good, and Moja is the only one that meets his standards haha.

I've gone to La Foret for pastries and stuff, but haven't bought beans from them. That might be a good one for me to try. I usually spend about $40 a month, similar to dukes - I drink it almost every day, and run through 2 bags a month roughly. I do only drip with my Moccamaster, and it's 41g per 750ml for me.

[cafe22]

If he likes coffee from Africa with strong floral notes then I suggest Agro's single origin lineup. Great price and pretty consistent quality.

It seems like he's pretty serious about his coffee routine. What kind of coffee grinder is he currently using? A good quality grinder will ensure less margin for flavour deviation. If he doesn't mind manual labour, I suggest:

https://cafune.ca/products/comandant...YaAkfzEALw_wcB

or

https://cafune.ca/collections/grinde...nu-m47-phoenix