E90 M3 Sedan - Should I do it?

[LP700-4]

Originally Posted by SpeedStars

Sort of off topic...are you selling the TL for it or are you staying with both?

Can keep both I guess but only 1 garage spot so one of them will have to sleep outside. Which I don't want either to do best to sell it to someone who will use it

[denham]

I drove at E90 on track at Mission a couple of years ago and really enjoyed it. The engine lacks a little low end but it loves to rev, and sounds pretty great too. It's missing a bit of connection that earlier BMWs like an E30 318is give you, for example, but in return you get a whack load of power and great refinement and comfort and sound.

[a00755836]

Originally Posted by LP700-4

So a little bit more about this car: I looked through some owners manual and stuff and found the car is from New Jersey? Has a very recent service reciept with some listings such as: owner found rough idle after cold start or something like that, replaced crank sensor and a bunch of other stuff including a new clutch. Why a 75km car needs a new clutch i have no clue.

Also found a reciept from blitzkreig about a pre-track inspection? Also replaced with track pads i believe so Im gonna assume the car has seen the track then, therefore meaning i will probably pass on this one.

if your considering a car from the states, the conversion rate currently isn't too healthy for canadians. price of car * 1.21 (current conversion rate) x import fee x other fees.

ive even hold off on getting mods online shipping to point Roberts for my car.

[TOPEC]

Originally Posted by xjc11

You might not miss that sound system with the m3's s65 V8

Not to mention that the E generation BMW will probably be the last of the naturally aspirated M engines

not the 1M

[LP700-4]

Originally Posted by a00755836

if your considering a car from the states, the conversion rate currently isn't too healthy for canadians. price of car * 1.21 (current conversion rate) x import fee x other fees.

ive even hold off on getting mods online shipping to point Roberts for my car.

Want to clarify this is a US car but has been imported to Vancouver since 2010 i believe.

Most likely gonna call this one off for now, I love the V8 and good god cant imagine what a muffler delete would do, but i guess the E46 is truely the one i want. I agree that the shifter feels weird and less direct than one in a E46 M. I can probably get one for 20k ish meaning i can save almost half and feel less bad about parking it on the street if it comes to that.

[sexyaccord]

c63 amg is the only 4 dr version i would get.
m3 i would go with the e92 coupe

[Traum]

Originally Posted by turbomelon

The biggest part of keeping an M3, is the running costs. I had apportioned a large sum of contingency funds for the regular maintenance of the vehicle which helped. Of course you could do the work yourself, or take it to a private shop, but at the time keeping the vehicle under warranty was my primary concern.

Brake Fluid Changes -$680
Front Brakes after 65-80k kms - approximately $1800 bucks
Rear brake pads after 75-85k kms- approximately $900 bucks
M3 Specific Oil- approximately $25/qt cheaper if purchased online.

and of course tires, but a set of four Michelin PSS last about 2 years, which is better than my c63 which needs a new set of rears every year approximately.

Whoa~ Those numbers are just completely off the charts! How can this type of maintenance possibly be so expensive?!

At the dealership, a typical Japanese car's brake fluid change is ~$150 - $200, including parts and labour. If you DIY, Motul RBF 600 sells for $20 per 500mL.

On the family German car, I seem to remember us paying ~$1500 for a complete 4 corner brake job. This included pads and rotors changes on all 4 corners, and of course includes labour as well. I already thought that was bloody highway robbery since I am used to paying $30 - $40 for a good quality rotor, and $150 for performance pads per axle on my car.

And, is M3 oil made out of liquid gold? $25 per quart is basically Motul 300V pricing. If you are buying online, Motul 300V can be had for ~$20 per quart.

[TOPEC]

^i believe the S65 engine specifies for 5W-60 weight oil plus been BMW LL-01 approved, theres not much choices out there

[turbomelon]

Spoiler!

Originally Posted by Traum

Whoa~ Those numbers are just completely off the charts! How can this type of maintenance possibly be so expensive?!

At the dealership, a typical Japanese car's brake fluid change is ~$150 - $200, including parts and labour. If you DIY, Motul RBF 600 sells for $20 per 500mL.

On the family German car, I seem to remember us paying ~$1500 for a complete 4 corner brake job. This included pads and rotors changes on all 4 corners, and of course includes labour as well. I already thought that was bloody highway robbery since I am used to paying $30 - $40 for a good quality rotor, and $150 for performance pads per axle on my car.

And, is M3 oil made out of liquid gold? $25 per quart is basically Motul 300V pricing. If you are buying online, Motul 300V can be had for ~$20 per quart.

I was initially taken aback as well when doing initial research on the m3's running costs a few years ago. However, if you have a warranty, the easiest way to ensure it stays in place is by going through a dealership.

I'm sure it's partly due to the hourly charge out rate, and then of course the markup on parts from the dealership. Additionally, they create a system of seemingly proprietary procedures.

One example that immediately comes to mind is the high cost of changing a battery at the dealership. Every time you change your battery in the e90 m3, you need to go to a dealership to 'reprogram' the battery to ensure it will run optimally. After installation and parts I recall being quoted at $500.

Idrive knobs, just the aluminum trim ring for the pre-LCI versions cost about $200 for the part and then another $150 for install (essentially popping it into place).

As always, buying the car is the easy part, keeping it running always takes either a lot of your own effort or the necessary funds to get the vehicle serviced by someone else. Places like Nixon are about half the price for labor and if you purchase parts from an online provider you could find them at 70-80% of the price if you're willing to risk having a warranty claim denied by a dealership.

[jmanhas]

I can't say for the E90, but the E46 is just a totally different experience.
I sold my e46 m3 2 years ago, and I just picked up my second one. Although on paper the E46 is noticeably slower, it doesn't feel that way when you drive it. The exhaust note is intoxicating, and the feeling of being connected to the road cannot be replicated, even in the E9X M3 in my opinion. I'm not going to say which car is better for you, but I can say that the E46 is definitely more raw in terms of performance and road feel. If you do decide to get the E90, I would personally wait until the perfect one comes around (local canadian/bc car, fully loaded with nav, the colour that you want as well) since you said you'd really miss the tech in your TL-S.

[westopher]

Warranty is likely over so no need to be buttraped with sand by the dealership for this one. East coast car though? No thanks unless it's about 20% less than the other options around here. As for the track thing? Don't worry about that. People who track their cars often pay a lot more attention to maintenance than the average driver. I think this specific example may not be worth it for you if you really want an e46 though.

[TouringTeg]

I see the same words describing older performance cars such as raw, road feel, and connected. Newer cars are getting progressively more numbing and people who really enjoy driving are shifting back towards manual analog cars. Would partly explain the run up in prices of E46 M3, E30 M3, NSX, 997.1 GT3, 964/993, etc.

The newer versions are faster and more comfortable but they do not provide the same driving experience. Newer cars also have warranty and generally less repairs required. It all depends in what you are looking for in a car.

E46 M3 just posted in CL thread:
http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/cto/4870966697.html

[Nomomo]

I know Don Nimi's sister has one. E46 with under 25,000km on it. It sits in the garage while she drives the kids in the evo.

[Z3guy]

Originally Posted by LP700-4

So a little bit more about this car: I looked through some owners manual and stuff and found the car is from New Jersey? Has a very recent service reciept with some listings such as: owner found rough idle after cold start or something like that, replaced crank sensor and a bunch of other stuff including a new clutch. Why a 75km car needs a new clutch i have no clue.

Also found a reciept from blitzkreig about a pre-track inspection? Also replaced with track pads i believe so Im gonna assume the car has seen the track then, therefore meaning i will probably pass on this one.

I would save $10 grand more and get a newer lower Kms local car. 75k Kms and the car been tracked seems to like you are going to spend allot of money on maintenance and repairs. Bad idle and crank sensor replacement seems odd to me. IMO, I would not do it

[Z3guy]

I have owned e36, e46, and currently an e93 m3. The e46 m3 feels very connected and lively, especially when it was new. However, compared to the e90 m3s it no comparison. The brilliant inline 6 has decent low end torque and loves to revs, but is really gutless compared to modern sports sedans. I would get a clean e46 m3 for a few years enjoy it and than just work your way up the ladder as finances permit. You can't go wrong with any m cars. Except mz3. I love mz3 too! They just handle horribly

[Z3guy]

Originally Posted by lowside67

The E36 sedans were produced in lower numbers and a much shorter production timeframe as well but the reality is 99% of the buyers out there want coupes and the sedans are hard to sell and sit around forever. Some people ask for a price premium but most are priced well under coupes to just get them to go away. There were even fewer convertibles sold than sedans or coupes and they are worth the LEAST of the 3 bodystyles.

The e36 verts in the long term are going to be the most highly sought after. Give it another 10yrs

[westopher]

North american E36s are honestly never going to be sought after.

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by Z3guy

The e36 verts in the long term are going to be the most highly sought after. Give it another 10yrs

We have the quote in writing but I absolutely believe that the highest value ones will be the bubble wrapped like new coupes. Guess we'll see in 2024.

Mark

[Amaru]

For my money the e46 M3 is the best car BMW has ever made, and one of the best cars of the 21st century. Incredible engine, beautiful and ageless body style, and practical for most day-to-day needs.

That said, the e46 isn't getting any newer, and the e92 is in a whole new league performance-wise.

Apologies if this has already been asked in the thread, but why not an e92 335i? I am biased because I own a 2009, but it's around the same as the e46 m3 in terms of straight-line performance, and cost of ownership should be a bit lower than with an M3 (of any gen). You also get the more modern styling... Not to mention the fact that $5k in simple ecu and bolt-on mods will put you in the 450bhp range.

I recently bought my '09 335 coupe -- local, no accidents, 6spd, 62,000kms -- for $22k. Definitely better value than an e46 m3 IMO, as long as you don't mind going forced induction (and the lag is almost imperceptible, at least in the twin turbo N54).

I actually personally prefer FI for a daily driver, since you can use the power more often (and without waking up every one in the neighbourhood revving to 8500rpm).

[jmanhas]

335i is definitely fast, and torquey. But when it comes to performance, its not just about horsepower. The 335 feels like a regular 3 series, with twin turbos thrown on top to improve its "performance". The E46 M3 was specifically made to be driven as a raw sports car. Perhaps i'm a bit biased, but I personally feel the E46 M3 has a much more timeless look, probably due to the fact that the 3series is as common as a honda civic in Richmond. You'd be getting a lot more car for the money compared to the 335i. But if its luxury/technology that concerns you more, then the E9X 335i is probably a better car for you.

I've considered the 335i as well, which allowed me to see the pros and cons for both cars. When i was looking for a car, my main concern was about the driving experience. After having driven both and comparing them side by side, it was a no brainer for me. (I'm not using my car as a daily, but just a summer car)

[westopher]

Don't get me wrong, the 335i is a great car, but as said the differences in the car are far greater than just the motor.
A NA M motor @5000+ RPMs is to fucking die for regardless.
As far as the BMW M cars go. The oldest start at maximum fun and drop down as the generations pass.
The oldest also start at minimum practicality and reliability and increase as generations pass. The e46 is the ultimate of both worlds in that regard.

[Z3guy]

Originally Posted by westopher

North american E36s are honestly never going to be sought after.

Not by enthusiasts but by collectors due to low production numbers. It is a gamble though

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Amaru

For my money the e46 M3 is the best car BMW has ever made, and one of the best cars of the 21st century. Incredible engine, beautiful and ageless body style, and practical for most day-to-day needs.

That would probably be the E39 M5.

Why not an E39 M5? V8 and probably a more analog experience than the E46 M or the E90 M. Plus 4 doors which is pretty useful if you plan to keep the car long-term and commands more respect in the parking lots, etc. (if that's your thing). Same maintenance issues, of course, but if you want to get an M car, you gotta pay to play. Or just buy a E46 ZHP (the last DIY-friendly 3-series) if you want to drive something that just "works".

One last thing, just because you can afford a BMW (any BMW) doesn't mean that you can afford to drive one. At the very minimum, you should be prepared to turn your own wrenches. Buy a good set of Torx wrenches, setup a laptop and load it with the appropriate diagnostic software, find some good part suppliers, and read BMW forums. For a late model BMW with fewer OEM part suppliers, set aside $400-500/month for repairs and maintenance. Good luck.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Z3guy

Not by enthusiasts but by collectors due to low production numbers. It is a gamble though

I'd say it's totally the opposite. Enthusiasts will always be looking for e36s as they are great cars to drive. Collectors won't care because they actually produced lots and they were neutered in the throttle body department. I think there were like 70k of them made. Mine is 1 of 137 though, although with the interior swap it's now 1 of 1.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by westopher

I'd say it's totally the opposite. Enthusiasts will always be looking for e36s as they are great cars to drive. Collectors won't care because they actually produced lots and they were neutered in the throttle body department. I think there were like 70k of them made. Mine is 1 of 137 though, although with the interior swap it's now 1 of 1.

The E36 is a great platform; it's just too bad the interior is pretty poor compared to the E46 (our family has had the E36 and E46). Definitely more entertaining to drive than the E46.

I drove a Honda for 10 years and I got my feet wet in the BMW pool with an E30 (a 325is, no less). Thinking about it again, If I were the OP, I would start small and get something like a late-model E36 with a stick shift and understand how BMWs work and drive. Once comfortable, then move up to something like an E46/E90.

But, on the other hand, YOLO.