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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
for lack of better judgement, I just watched the video...and my god... RIP, having 2 kids of my own... I just don't believe my own eyes....
The cop - weather if it was lack of training, or he freaked out at the moment, the high adrenaline or stress he was under... he clearly lost control of himself well before the situation escalated to this level. He had a panic attack and ended someones life.
Don't get me wrong, people make mistakes, especially under pressure, but usually my mistakes do not cost people's lives. That is why the police should be held to a higher standard.
I would like to give the cop and benefit of the doubt that this is "out of character" of him and he just fucked up... big... but having his personal gear (assault rifle) engraved with "you are fucked" does not help his image...
I don't want to take a side, because I wasn't there, I have limited background. I do not know his prior experience, I do not know his personality, I do not know his PD's policy or protocol.
I would have told the suspect to turnaround, walk backwards with both hands held straight up. But that's just me... and I can say that because now I have time to analyse the situation.
the victim - holy fuck... where do I begin... he was out of town doing a job (having wife and kids), but still decided to invite a girl he met at the hotel to his room for drinks... a bit drunk... have air soft pointing out the window. In the video you can clearly hear he told the officer he was NOT drunk and have no trouble following instructions... that was a stupid move, he should've said that he has a bit of drink and maybe that will help the cop handle the situation differently. Because to the cop, if you don't follow his instructions (even just confusing bad ones), you don't follow = you are resisting/not cooperating. If he knows you are drunk, then he may consider that the influence of alcohol may have hinder your ability to comply and not necessary resisting....
the hotel and the "concerned guests" - wow just wow, I think they are the real victims, they did nothing wrong, calling the authorities when you are concerned is the right thing to do. But even if you did the right thing and wanted to be a responsible resident. I can't imagine living with the guilt that you will feel some what responsible for the death. Its a tragic and knowing that your tip let to an innocent man to his death. I will literally develop mental problems if I were the original concerned guest who notified authority. How would I face my family, my friends, how would I face the now widow and his 2 young kids....
sorry for the long rant.... all in all I actually feel quiet uneasy and disturbed. To me it seems more like the system failed the victim, failed the cop, its sad news all around.
Once again, rest in peace, deepest condolences.
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I'd like to see the average American (obese) even follow that protocol. As they attempt to crawl their big top heavy gut pushes them forward. Naturally your hands go forward to break your fall and the cop shoots you in the head because you were clearly trying to attack him.
Being in that line of work is dangerous, I don't think they sugarcoat that on the resume. You trained to be able to handle those situations yet time and time again we see that a lot of cops are not suited to be mall security let alone get to play with a real gun.
Do to the lax gun laws and all the mass shootings in the states cops have to assume every person is armed and dangerous. Better shoot someone then get shot.
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
one of the video's comment said it best, just interlock the fingers visibly and don't move at all. Even trigger-happy officers wont fire if you're holding still...don't even give them the slightest doubt you're reaching for a weapon
As hard has it was to watch that video multiple times, and the officer clearly looks like a douche and an idiot, Shaver does, relatively abruptly turn to reach to his back. Must have been the intoxication or something.. because it seems like Shaver really wanted to follow their instructions exactly.
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Do to the lax gun laws and all the mass shootings in the states cops have to assume every person is armed and dangerous. Better shoot someone then get shot.
I read somewhere that this video of an officer getting killed by a Vietnam veteran is shown to the trainees during their training. The lesson in this clip is that a second of hesitation can get you killed. The fact that firearms seem to be everywhere in the US doesn't help either.
To Serve & Protect ?...... I'm not so sure about that
Luckily the biggest fear in GVRD is just being tazed.
You know what's actually fascinating? For the most part being a police officer is not as dangerous a job as you think, there are far more dangerous jobs out there.
Has anyone actually looked at the statistics of police who are shot in a given year?
66 police out of the hundreds of thousands employed throughout the US were killed by gun shot last year. Some of those shootings include friendly fire. 2016 in particular was a bad year in comparison to previous.
The majority of police deaths are actually related to vehicular accidents.
This myth of danger is somewhat unfounded, there is no reason why these shootings should be occurring to such degree. It's poor training, poor hiring practices, some people simply should not be police officers, plain and simple. We allow them to perpetuate us this narrative so that they may cover their own asses.
Policing in the states is so saturated. They have multiple agencies policing the same area which I never understood. Hard to have a standard when you have so many different views on how to police. They've got City Police Departments, County Sheriff Offices and State Troopers. FBI / DEA too I guess but they don't actively patrol the streets.
Not sure how accurate this article is but it states police officers make less than $40,000 a year in South Carolina. Superiors and Detectives make about $47,000. With that kind of pay in my opinion will yield you average individuals, hired to a job where employees have power and need to be held to a higher standards than the average civilian.
Policing in the states is so saturated. They have multiple agencies policing the same area which I never understood. Hard to have a standard when you have so many different views on how to police. They've got City Police Departments, County Sheriff Offices and State Troopers. FBI / DEA too I guess but they don't actively patrol the streets.
Not sure how accurate this article is but it states police officers make less than $40,000 a year in South Carolina. Superiors and Detectives make about $47,000. With that kind of pay in my opinion will yield you average individuals, hired to a job where employees have power and need to be held to a higher standards than the average civilian.
Vancouver Police probationary wage $70,000. After three years of service goes to $90,000. Four years $100,000 less Union dues. Compensation - Delta Police Department
The level of education/brain power it takes to become a cop in Canada is much different than that of the states. To become a VPD officer, you basically need to have a university degree to be even considered being allowed to be part of the force.
In the states, you could be a high school drop out/trigger-happy call of duty fanboy, and end up with a licence to kill. The lower wages reflect the type of character they look for. If they upped the wages to a more respectable level, then it's likely more respectable people would apply.
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Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
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Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
Yes. The outrage pouring over the keyboards is staggering
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Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
OK so the commands were NOT coming from the officer who wore the cam and pulled the trigger.
Quote:
Another officer can be heard ordering them to get on the floor and threatening to shoot if they do not comply.
“If you make a mistake, another mistake, there is a very severe possibility you’re both going to get shot,” the officer says in the video. He shouts at Mr. Shaver, “If you move, we are going to consider that a threat, and we are going to deal with it, and you may not survive it.”
“I’m sorry,” Mr. Shaver says at one point. “Please do not shoot me,” he says at another.
The officer’s commands at times seemed contradictory.
“Do not put your hands down for any reason,” he tells Mr. Shaver. “Your hands go back in the small of your back or down, we are going to shoot you, do you understand me?”
“Yes, sir,” a tearful Mr. Shaver responds.
But immediately after, the officer commands, “Crawl towards me,” prompting Mr. Shaver to lower his hands to the floor and begin moving toward the camera.
A few seconds after beginning to crawl, Mr. Shaver twists slightly to his right, his elbow pointing upward. As someone shouts, “Don’t!” Officer Brailsford begins firing.
having multiple officers in that hallway doesn't change the case dramatically but I can see why the experts might lean towards the police's side
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
I read somewhere that this video of an officer getting killed by a Vietnam veteran is shown to the trainees during their training. The lesson in this clip is that a second of hesitation can get you killed. The fact that firearms seem to be everywhere in the US doesn't help either.
To Serve & Protect ?...... I'm not so sure about that
Luckily the biggest fear in GVRD is just being tazed.
the cop was way too passive...some crazy fuck comes out a truck saying "Kill Me!"...holding a rifle easily visible and even has enough time to load a clip in standing outside his door
that instantly raises red flags....and the cops training he completely forgot everything in a panic,he couldn't even shoot the guy 7 steps away..the fuck..was even crazy to see the old war vet use his training in a rage rushing the cop
Instead of focusing on what the cop did, I thought the more ridiculous part of this tragedy is how the court just set the murderous cop free. So his hand twitched to reach for his waist, and he deserves to get fired on from an AR multiple times?
The court ruling here reminded me of the case in Toronto where a cop (Forcillo) shot and killed a knife-wielding teen (Yatim). The cop fired 9 rounds on the kid in total. The first 3 were deemed to be appropriate, but not the subsequent 6 shots. And thus he was only guilty of attempted murder from the firing of the subsequent 6 shots.
The cases are obviously quite different, but I can't help but feel that the Canadian court here came to a verdict that is far more appropriate than what the US court handed out.
So to me, it isn't just the US police system not working. Their court / legal system is also not working as well, and that latter part if far more disconcerting to me.
You know what's actually fascinating? For the most part being a police officer is not as dangerous a job as you think, there are far more dangerous jobs out there.
Has anyone actually looked at the statistics of police who are shot in a given year?
66 police out of the hundreds of thousands employed throughout the US were killed by gun shot last year. Some of those shootings include friendly fire. 2016 in particular was a bad year in comparison to previous.
The majority of police deaths are actually related to vehicular accidents.
This myth of danger is somewhat unfounded, there is no reason why these shootings should be occurring to such degree. It's poor training, poor hiring practices, some people simply should not be police officers, plain and simple. We allow them to perpetuate us this narrative so that they may cover their own asses.
for what its worth, not every cop that gets shot dies. can you find numbers on how many are shot and survive? how about how many have simply had a gun pulled on them?
Please explain to me how the presentation of the stats, which were constructed specifically to remove bias, actually makes them bias. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/vox/
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
Please explain to me how the presentation of the stats, which were constructed specifically to remove bias, actually makes them bias. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/vox/
Taken directly from your mediabiasfactcheck site:
Quote:
Factual Reporting: HIGH
Notes: Vox is an American advocacy news website run by Vox Media, co-founded by liberal columnists Ezra Klein, Melissa Bell, and Matt Yglesias and launched in April 2014. Vox presents with left wing bias in reporting and story choices. There is some use of loaded words, but most articles are sourced to credible information. (5/15/2016)
Did you just see that vox is a left leaning source and immediately discredit it? or do you have a problem with Vox reporting 'factual information' - as described by the link you posted?
With regards to your cesariolab link. It looks like it's written by a C/C+ achieving social science undergraduate student. The author makes so many jumps in mental gymnastics to support his point that:
[QUOTE] However, adjusting these numbers for criminal interactions produces the same consistent finding as seen earlier: Whites were more likely to be killed than Blacks [QUOTE/]
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
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