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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
Vancouver is late to the party, but foreign money pushing locals out of great places to live is nothing new. This has happened in every single major city since the dawn of time. As a result, there are a lot more expensive places to live than here.
Vancouver is an appealing place to live. Healthcare, best weather in Canada, ocean, mountains, sports, dining, entertainment.. the list goes on and on.
Can't afford Vancouver proper? Try the burbs. I love my area. Just know that no matter where you go, you'll find something to bitch about there. You're a Vancouverite afterall
Too many people saying we are the top city - comparing ourselves to Paris / Tokyo / NY etc. fuck we are no where near those places. Yes we have awesome weather here in the summer. It rains for 8 months of the year. We have clean air and mountains etc. but we don't have any industries. We are closest in similarity to seattle or portland. yet they have better industries than us.
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HOW “WORLD CLASS” IS VANCOUVER?
One of the favourite justifications for high housing prices in Vancouver is, “we’re cheap compared to other world-class cities like Paris, Tokyo, London, New York, etc.”. In fact, Housing Minister Rich Coleman (following up on his comments from last week) gave this response a few days ago when asked about foreign ownership in Vancouver.
“I believe that the market place adjusts. If you notice over the years, it has fluctuations up and fluctuations down. If you look at the mean cost of housing across British Columbia and you compare it to other major cities worldwide, the reason it is attractive internationally is because it’s actually pretty reasonable compared to other cities like London, Singapore, Tokyo”
But is Vancouver really comparable to those cities?
Population
How does Vancouver compare to those other cities when it comes to metropolitan area population?
Tokyo: 34,607,069
New York: 20,092,883
London: 13,879,757
Paris: 11,978,363
Western Canada: 10,394,228 (west of Ontario)
Pittsburgh: 2,356,285
Vancouver: 2,313,328
Portland: 2,226,009 When it comes to population, Vancouver is not even close to the usual comparison cities. In fact, Tokyo, New York, London and Paris all have higher populations than Western Canada. On the list of North American Metropolitan Areas, Vancouver ranks 35th — right between Pittsburgh and Portland.
World City Rankings
The Globalization and World Cities Research Network has a methodology for ranking world cities. In their most recent analysis, the top four cities were: London, New York, Hong Kong and Paris. Vancouver ranks more than 60 places lower, most comparable to: Caracas, Riyadh, Chennai and Manchester.
A.T. Kearney compiles a Global Cities Index (GCI), which “examines a comprehensive list of 84 cities on every continent, measuring how globally engaged they are across 26 metrics in five dimensions: business activity, human capital, information exchange, cultural experience, and political engagement”. The usual comparison cities are all at the top. Vancouver ranked 48th.
Global Cites Top 20 The 3 most visited museums in the world are in Paris, New York and London. The Vancouver art gallery didn’t make the top 100.
Of the four major cross-border North American sports leagues (MLB, NBA, NHL, MLS), Vancouver has 2 teams and 0 championships. New York has 8 teams and 41 championships. Vancouver briefly had an NBA franchise, but lost it to fellow world-class city Memphis, Tennessee.
New York has Broadway, London has the West End, Vancouver has Granville Street?
Reasonable Comparisons
Vancouver is simply not in the same league as the truly world-class cities with which it is often compared. Two much more comparable cities are Portland and Seattle (similar populations, weather, natural beauty, etc.). So, how do these three cities compare when it comes to median house prices?
Vancouver: $704,800 CAD
Seattle: $359,100 USD
Portland: $291,300 USD
Sure, Vancouver is cheaper than truly world-class cities. But compared to similar cities, it is extremely overpriced.
For those who had never lived in the Bay area. Most of the people who earn less often commute from way in the valley. I chatted with an office cleaner once who commuted 3 hours each way to work, come in at night and basically clean for a few companies, do day job go home, repeat and rinse. I also know people commute from Squamish, Abbotsford or even Chillwack etc to Vancouver or Surrey for work.. same thing.
You can say Vancouver doesn't have enough jobs.. but we have quite a few technical places in geology (Golders), engineering (Amec etc) etc. and the new LNG planning places.. yes they are hurting from fall out from Ab but they are still hiring. I think it also reflects how the choice of schooling affects your life. Applied science and trades you should do okay.. Arts? not so much.
It's a have and have not city. You bought a detached house 5+ years ago in Vancouver, great! you won the lottery - your house will appreciate and will get $1-5 million dollars, what a regular person would make their WHOLE LIFETIME! Bring on those foreigners!
While the rest of us are screwed.
I understand Clark's logic that government intervention in the housing market to drive down prices would "screw over" a lot of actual Canadian citizens who bought homes (and live in them, gasp) in the GVRD in the last 10 or so years... but the Liberals need to look at the bigger future.
Basically it comes down to the choice of whether to screw over the group of people who bought into the market, or the bulk of the Lower Mainland's future as an economic whole (with respect to industry and the luring of PROFESSIONAL jobs (none of this low wage service industry crap)).
The reason many large companies do not establish HQ's or even branches in Vancouver is due to the cost of living... why would anyone want to relocate from anywhere in Canada to make the same amount of money which goes half as far? Inversely, why would any Vancouverite work at said company, realize the same company has an office out East that pays the same but with a much lower cost of living, and not move? Case in point, I have a buddy who is applying for federal law enforcement and he says that the majority of his fellow classmates who don't have ties in the Lower Mainland are super sketched about being sent here because their money (roughly $60k/year starting, moving up to $80k/year after X amount of years) doesn't get them very far.
The only people who aren't moving are those who are fortunate enough to be helped by their parents and/or are fortunate/hardworking/smart/skilled enough to land a job that allows the city to be liveable for them and their expectations regarding quality of life. And even then, the numbers of both groups of people will dwindle every generation if the housing issue is not fixed.
Ironically, if laws and sanctions on foreign ownership came about 10 or so years ago, this Sophie's Choice would likely have been prevented completely....
I wouldn't blame the foreigners, they bring in wealth. I'd blame those who sold their homes to foreigners and not redistributing that wealth into other industries.
Anyone remember the dumps that were Vancouver and Richmond before foreign money started coming in?
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"Damn fine car Dodge... Ran over me wife with a Dodge!", Zeke
Don't forget that back then people had the same anti-foreigner resentment except it was hongers instead of mainlanders buying up property keeping the hard working born and raised Canadians from buying a home.
Also back then like now people thought Vancouver real estate would go up forever.... then the recession struck. I think it was 15% mortgages? Sunk a lot of people.
I find that most people who whine about real estate in the media are quite entitled. They want a single family detached in Vancouver west/kitsilano/kerrisdale at a reasonable price. Really now
The difference between now and the 90's is, Hong Kong only had a population of 6 million back then, and Taiwan had a population of 20 million at the time. A fraction of their population immigrating to Vancouver is still not very many people.
But now? China has a 1.3 billion population. Even if you were to assume a much smaller percentage of people buying up real estate here, we are still fxxked.
So that means a lot of people bringing in a lot of wealth right? Where's all that money going when they spend it? Certainly not back into the economy.
Again, I'd blame those making money off foreigners and not reinvesting it into the local economy. Then again, Vancourites are a self centered bunch. Average Joe who cashed out and made a million bucks is most likely going to blow it on themselves.
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Socialist enough? Where were you in grade 3 social studies? Maybe compared to George Dubya we are socialist.....
Regardless, as much as foreign investors are part of the issue here, the real driving force behind it is people buying into the media hype of "OMG the Chinese are coming! Buy now or we never can!" Its the broke ass fucking idiots that are given 100k by their parents and believe that a down payment is all you need to own a home, and borrowing money hand over fist for the Canadian real estate dream thats been beaten into our heads that its a measure of success since we were old enough to listen. All the people making 40k a year willing to sign their life away on a 2.74 mortgage thats 50% of their income is whats really making prices climb.
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98 technoviolet M3/2/5
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Originally Posted by boostfever
Westopher is correct.
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Originally Posted by fsy82
seems like you got a dick up your ass well..get that checked
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkwax
Well.. I’d hate to be the first to say it, but Westopher is correct.
I find it hilarious that till this day, politicians and other peeps who have their heads stuck up their own asses are still comparing Vancouver to the likes of London, Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc.
Like seriously, where the hell did the idea of Vancouver as a world-class city even pop up from? Just because we have the nicest parks in the world, excellent weather with tons of fresh air, does not mean we are a world-class city hell even Seattle and Portland feel way more like proper metropolitan cities than Vancouver does, nevermind Asian cities such as Hong Kong or Taipei, the latter which I visit frequently.
I find it ESPECIALLY hilarious when Translink compares itself to transit systems in those above mentioned countries. Please fuck yourselves Translink.
__________________ [13-03, 11:25] MG1 when you hit the brakes, it shoots cum at pedestrian - bukkake
[12-03, 19:06] meme405 That e30 is so mexiflushed I thought we were in albuquerque
[12-03, 23:03] rb when i see a modded element. I have nothing but respect. either the parents kicked him out or the guy is killing hookers in the back
Lower mainland has no planning to attract any industry, while "shit" places like Dallas, Houston are all pushing hard to get all sort of industries (IT, automaker, batteries... etc) to invest there by granting incentives.
It costs a million dollars for a house lot. How much do you think it's going to cost to buy the land for a factory in Vancouver. Then who is going to work in the factory with the cost of living so high in Vancouver. Reason why all the shit places are getting all sorts of industry is because of cheap property and a labour force that can work in the same city they live in.
One of Nanaimo's biggest employers is Tilray (medical marijuana grower) and they have been only open for a few years. In the next couple of years they will be the biggest employer here. They came because land is cheap and housing is cheap. In Vancouver there land cost would be 5 to 10 times as much as Nanaimo. Plus they would have a harder time attracting employees do to higher living cost. There is zero benefit to grow medical marijuana in Vancouver and plenty of negatives.
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
It costs a million dollars for a house lot. How much do you think it's going to cost to buy the land for a factory in Vancouver. Then who is going to work in the factory with the cost of living so high in Vancouver. Reason why all the shit places are getting all sorts of industry is because of cheap property and a labour force that can work in the same city they live in.
One of Nanaimo's biggest employers is Tilray (medical marijuana grower) and they have been only open for a few years. In the next couple of years they will be the biggest employer here. They came because land is cheap and housing is cheap. In Vancouver there land cost would be 5 to 10 times as much as Nanaimo. Plus they would have a harder time attracting employees do to higher living cost. There is zero benefit to grow medical marijuana in Vancouver and plenty of negatives.
precisely, which leaves vancouver's only option being high value jobs which require skilled labour - but the cost/benefit (earnings/cost of living) is so much better in other places that you see the brain drain that's going on today.
it's not just the cost of living that's the issue, it's the lack of career growth, generally - yes, some ppl can do great, but in general terms it's so much better "elsewhere".
perhaps vancouver (politicians, etc.) is ok with this, maybe they're fine with more of a rich retirement type city? i'm not sure.
for me, i left because my career has been able to skyrocket elsewhere. i did well in vancouver, i lived a good life, had sufficient money, lived in downtown, drove a very nice car, all that... but i wasn't happy - i wanted more, vancouver can't give you more.
but then again, not everyone's like me, lots of people have rich parents who will buy them everything, others are ok with the fresh air and trees, and that makes them happy - i think with all the noise of late, i'm finding millenials are probably somewhere in the middle, wanting more, feeling like they're entitled to more - not sure they should get it, life is about smart sacrifices for long term gain.
as has been said earlier, vancouver is now a nice spot to vacation/visit family & friends, but i don't miss it when i leave.
It costs a million dollars for a house lot. How much do you think it's going to cost to buy the land for a factory in Vancouver. Then who is going to work in the factory with the cost of living so high in Vancouver. Reason why all the shit places are getting all sorts of industry is because of cheap property and a labour force that can work in the same city they live in.
One of Nanaimo's biggest employers is Tilray (medical marijuana grower) and they have been only open for a few years. In the next couple of years they will be the biggest employer here. They came because land is cheap and housing is cheap. In Vancouver there land cost would be 5 to 10 times as much as Nanaimo. Plus they would have a harder time attracting employees do to higher living cost. There is zero benefit to grow medical marijuana in Vancouver and plenty of negatives.
An office building in NYC costs billions and I didn't see it stopped companies from going in.
It's not about the cost of land itself, but the long term prospect. Places like Dallas and Houston offers incentives such as tax break, tax credit... etc to promote business to come. And they attracted all kind of industrial and even IT companies to setup there.
Let's say GVR's land cost makes setting businesses that requires large real estate prohibitive, then think about industries that don't require so much space. Vancouver could become the Silicon Valley of North given its proximity to Seattle (where IT powerhouse MS/Amazon are located) or a financial hub to Asian markets given its geographical location comparing to NYC/TO... just to throw some ideas.
But yet, BC or GVR gov't never even bothered to focus on anything. The only thing Christy came up is what? LNG? They just thought since Alberta had a breeze with oil, let's do it with LNG? That's the best idea they could come up with?
They need to actually come up with an industry that would actually bring value to what we currently have and not just some middle point of a commodity. Look at Alberta... its economy is about to enter recession with the oil tanking.
Let's say we already have so many rich Chinese and we want to make Vancouver a Chinese baller attraction place such as Monte Carlo to Europeans... then make incentive to attract even more investments to the necessary attractions. No bike-lanes for hippies.
What I'm saying is that our gov't has no vision at all. It doesn't even know what is good for GVR. And this is why all the talents are leaving. There are no dominant industry here in GVR that can attract/keep top talents; whatever industry might be...
on a kind of unrelated note! The amount of gold diggers in Vancouver raises when the cost of living in Vancouver raises! so unless you are rich! get your bitches elsewhere!
U know, i once thought vancouver was tough. Dont really think that anymore since i visited HK recently to see family. Holy fuck that city is a shithole, unless youre in the top 1%. My sisters apartment is worth 2 mil CAD+ (if i heard correctly), and its the about the same quality and space as a 500-600k new apartment in vancouver.
Owning your own car costs a leg, and the city is congested as fuck. Sure, more job opportunities, but if you aint top 1% income earner good luck owning a decent apartment if your building from scratch without family assistance. I see so many workers in HK, no way their jobs will allow them to afford a decent place. Most of them live in shithole apartments that is small as dick.
I feel blessed living in vancouver, when compared to shithole HK. Yeah the struggle is real, but i rather take that struggle in vancouver versus shithole HK. Plus we got nice weather and dont have to walk the streets/take MTR with the congestion of a shithole ant colony. I cant wait to come back to vancouver. Living in HK temporarily has given me the drive to work harder in vancouver. You dont know how bad HK residents want to leave that shithole but cant.
It's not about the cost of land itself, but the long term prospect. Places like Dallas and Houston offers incentives such as tax break, tax credit... etc to promote business to come. And they attracted all kind of industrial and even IT companies to setup there.
Let's say GVR's land cost makes setting businesses that requires large real estate prohibitive, then think about industries that don't require so much space. Vancouver could become the Silicon Valley of North given its proximity to Seattle (where IT powerhouse MS/Amazon are located) or a financial hub to Asian markets given its geographical location comparing to NYC/TO... just to throw some ideas.
I thought Vancouver was going to have an Amazon office in that new Telus building after it was built? I would really like to see Vancouver head into that direction but there is just way more incentive to find and work for a company down south than it is to work in Canada if you're in the tech industry.
I left Vancouver almost a year ago to work in the bay area. There's just so much more it has to offer than Vancouver. The housing seems just as bad though in San Francisco because of all the techies down there driving up the prices. I'm not too sure about the rest of the bay area though.
It's a hard pitch to get talent to stay in Vancouver where there are tons of opportunities elsewhere for the same type of work but better salary, experience, and perks. Aside from family and friends, there's nothing really making me want to move back to Vancouver.
U know, i once thought vancouver was tough. Dont really think that anymore since i visited HK recently to see family. Holy fuck that city is a shithole, unless youre in the top 1%. My sisters apartment is worth 2 mil CAD+ (if i heard correctly), and its the about the same quality and space as a 500-600k new apartment in vancouver.
Owning your own car costs a leg, and the city is congested as fuck. Sure, more job opportunities, but if you aint top 1% income earner good luck owning a decent apartment if your building from scratch without family assistance. I see so many workers in HK, no way their jobs will allow them to afford a decent place. Most of them live in shithole apartments that is small as dick.
I feel blessed living in vancouver, when compared to shithole HK. Yeah the struggle is real, but i rather take that struggle in vancouver versus shithole HK. Plus we got nice weather and dont have to walk the streets/take MTR with the congestion of a shithole ant colony. I cant wait to come back to vancouver. Living in HK temporarily has given me the drive to work harder in vancouver. You dont know how bad HK residents want to leave that shithole but cant.
I find it non-sense too. My parents' 900sq ft 40yrs old apartment is worth 2.2mil cdn in the market. I am trying to see if I can buy another apartment, it will cost me at least 1mil for a 500sqft. And a parking stall here costs 200k in most area.
Even me and my wife are making decent money, we do not dare to step into this hole.
Below: we are very upset everytime we walk pass the RE agency. HK$2000 = $3.2mil cdn for a 1000sqft apartment.
U know, i once thought vancouver was tough. Dont really think that anymore since i visited HK recently to see family. Holy fuck that city is a shithole, unless youre in the top 1%. My sisters apartment is worth 2 mil CAD+ (if i heard correctly), and its the about the same quality and space as a 500-600k new apartment in vancouver.
Owning your own car costs a leg, and the city is congested as fuck. Sure, more job opportunities, but if you aint top 1% income earner good luck owning a decent apartment if your building from scratch without family assistance. I see so many workers in HK, no way their jobs will allow them to afford a decent place. Most of them live in shithole apartments that is small as dick.
I feel blessed living in vancouver, when compared to shithole HK. Yeah the struggle is real, but i rather take that struggle in vancouver versus shithole HK. Plus we got nice weather and dont have to walk the streets/take MTR with the congestion of a shithole ant colony. I cant wait to come back to vancouver. Living in HK temporarily has given me the drive to work harder in vancouver. You dont know how bad HK residents want to leave that shithole but cant.
This^
I had the same experience living in Philippines for about a year and it really opened my eyes how lucky I am to be living in Vancouver. It is frustrating to see how housing prices and affordability in this city has gone ridiculously high but at the end of it all, I would rather live in a city that has a more organized society, decent healthcare, structured and well maintained.
Imagine living in a city that...
-has garbage scattered everywhere on the streets and no one cleans it up
-not safe to walk around the city (strong possibility of getting mugged or traffic hitting you)
-no form of any healthcare (pay first before we attend and treat you)
-stereotypes and classifications ("I have more money so bow down to me" mentality or "I know a lot of influential people so respect me")
-No proper health code or food safety
-natural disasters are common (typhoons, earthquakes, floods, etc.)
-law enforcers are also scammers
-any form of government identification or documentation takes forever to process (i had to line up 6 hours to get a drivers license then another 4 hours to receive the actual ID)
and that is just the tip of the iceberg.
I am thankful to live in this city regardless of the struggle to make it big. I would rather have nothing but live happy than have everything but live miserably.
Honestly, like every single fucking world class city in the world is expensive, this isnt exclusive to Vancouver, people just like to beat this topic into the grave. When I was in florence last year you were looking at 300,000 EURO's for a fucking 900 sq foot 45 year old apartment within the "core" of the city. In a place where there is litterally no work for anyone prices are still "high"
In terms of the brain drain and career progression, sure. But you've got your head in the clouds if you think there are other options in major cities that are "more affordable" than here.
Watch house hunters, and other home buying shows. 680-900,000K is getting you a 2600sq foot in fucking Sacramento.
Want to live in a shit place? cool, go move there and pay "affordable prices"
I'll stick around here and live the life I enjoy, buy a residence i can afford, and make my moves accordingly. Dont go on the fucking news with your 3 kids in hand and shitty 45k/year job and cry that you cant afford to live in East Van, because you cant.
Um, the difference is other world class cities like San Francisco, New York, Hong Kong (okay, maybe not Hong Kong) have huge economies with career opportunities that ALLOW people to afford those prices. Compare Vancouver and Toronto and tell me how many people who are buying condos/houses are doing it with money they made in their respective cities.
FYI: There are plenty of places with better career prospects than Vancouver and without the terrible ratio of salary to living expenses. Toronto and Seattle immediately come to mind. Austin, TX is also quickly becoming a place that young people want to go to.
I don't know why you keep bringing up places like Nice and Florence; they are totally not comparable to Vancouver at all. They're basically resort or retirement places for wealthy people. It's like asking why anyone wants to pay so much to live in the Hamptons. If you are insinuating that Vancouver is going to become a place for wealthy people to move to with the entire economy built around serving them then, yes, I agree!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drow
U know, i once thought vancouver was tough. Dont really think that anymore since i visited HK recently to see family. Holy fuck that city is a shithole, unless youre in the top 1%. My sisters apartment is worth 2 mil CAD+ (if i heard correctly), and its the about the same quality and space as a 500-600k new apartment in vancouver.
Owning your own car costs a leg, and the city is congested as fuck. Sure, more job opportunities, but if you aint top 1% income earner good luck owning a decent apartment if your building from scratch without family assistance. I see so many workers in HK, no way their jobs will allow them to afford a decent place. Most of them live in shithole apartments that is small as dick.
I feel blessed living in vancouver, when compared to shithole HK. Yeah the struggle is real, but i rather take that struggle in vancouver versus shithole HK. Plus we got nice weather and dont have to walk the streets/take MTR with the congestion of a shithole ant colony. I cant wait to come back to vancouver. Living in HK temporarily has given me the drive to work harder in vancouver. You dont know how bad HK residents want to leave that shithole but cant.
And with the way how our RE is heading. It won't be long till it will be like HK (maybe within 10 years). I have relatives in HK and while it is a shithole there are still better opportunities than Van.
If you look at HK they are slowly being replace by China. They are no longer the leading export, Shanghai is the top export now. In terms of jobs it is better in China in every way if you have the skills/brains. China's GPD haves surpass HK ages ago and is only going to get worse.
Van is slowing turning into a service base industry only much like Los Vegas. We have no major industries other than service to support the city. All these tech companies are hiring from elsewhere and bringing them in (Look at Microsoft) and are hiring no locals for any high paying jobs.
Gov won't do a thing because they need the revenue from tax and also the developers have paid them under the table. Also the people who go and vote are the seniors and home owners. The younger gen only complains online but when it comes voting time you don't see them. Unless we start seeing more younger gen vote there won't be any change.
Last edited by Mr.HappySilp; 05-22-2015 at 07:50 AM.
Too many people saying we are the top city - comparing ourselves to Paris / Tokyo / NY etc. fuck we are no where near those places. Yes we have awesome weather here in the summer. It rains for 8 months of the year. We have clean air and mountains etc. but we don't have any industries. We are closest in similarity to seattle or portland. yet they have better industries than us.
Not sure why you quoted my post? No where did I say Vancouver was a world class city. I simply stated it is a very appealing place to live and named reasons other than the city itself.
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Originally Posted by ForbiddenX
I thought Vancouver was going to have an Amazon office in that new Telus building after it was built?
Yes, Amazon will be in the new Telus building.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MG1
punkwax, I don't care what your friends say about you, you are gold!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punkwax
Yes, Amazon will be in the new Telus building.
Only thing all the high paying jobs will be not be for local. They will bring in talents form other parts of the world just like what Microsoft is doing. Only the low paying scrap will be given to locals.
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hell even Seattle and Portland feel way more like proper metropolitan cities than Vancouver does, nevermind Asian cities such as Hong Kong or Taipei, the latter which I visit frequently.
