School me on Notary vs Lawyer for property closing

[tiger_handheld]

In the market for first time home and I'm wondering what's the difference between a notary and lawyer?

Notary is about $600-750.
Lawyer is about $1200

Does the lawyer provided any extra value add for the x2 in price?

I'm ready to take notes...

[Bonka]

Lawyers absolutely provide extra value, provided you need them. It is transaction specific. With a majority of deals notaries are more than sufficient since they are simply registering and discharging mortgages, making sure the title is clear of charges before registering the buyer, reconciling property taxes and utilities and making sure seller receives funds but they can only register and sign off on legal documentation. If a deal has complex elements requiring legal advice. (ie: neighbouring property has a shed encroaching on the one you're buying) you'll want a lawyer. They will be very important between the time your offer has firmed up to closing.

[tiger_handheld]

Originally Posted by Bonka

Lawyers absolutely provide extra value, provided you need them. It is transaction specific. With a majority of deals notaries are more than sufficient since they are simply registering and discharging mortgages, making sure the title is clear of charges before registering the buyer, reconciling property taxes and utilities and making sure seller receives funds but they can only register and sign off on legal documentation. If a deal has complex elements requiring legal advice. (ie: neighbouring property has a shed encroaching on the one you're buying) you'll want a lawyer. They will be very important between the time your offer has firmed up to closing.

I'm searching for previously occupied condo. So it's a very 'basic' transaction - I'd presume anyways.

I heard that a lawyer will also review the financial position of the strata corporation and advise the buyer accordingly. Can this be expected of a notary?

[Energy]

I was taught that its always best to get a lawyer to read the Contract of Purchase and Sale before you sign it because realtors usually draft those contracts and do a poor job.

[Bonka]

Originally Posted by tiger_handheld

I'm searching for previously occupied condo. So it's a very 'basic' transaction - I'd presume anyways.

I heard that a lawyer will also review the financial position of the strata corporation and advise the buyer accordingly. Can this be expected of a notary?

Yes a lawyer can do that for you, but you are paying them for the privilege!

If you're using a Realtor, assuming they're competent they SHOULD be more useful. The financial statements are really only a small aspect of how a strata is run. The minutes will show the details of what is actually happening with the operating funds and why the balances are where they are. Don't forget the Depreciation Report - this outlines future building expenses and what you need to do as a strata to raise them.

Originally Posted by Energy

I was taught that its always best to get a lawyer to read the Contract of Purchase and Sale before you sign it because realtors usually draft those contracts and do a poor job.

I agree if you're using an incompetent louse. Here's how it is. An agent who doesn't use the appropriate clauses for their buyers risk getting sued by the buyer, the seller, the seller's brokerage and whoever else is at stake. Even if the agent only cared about their own interests, the clauses they use will naturally protect you as a buyer. Run away from any agent who can't even get that right because they're an idiot - FYI, plenty of these idiots out there today too.

For stratas, as a buyer you'll want these clauses as minimum on a standard transaction:

- obtaining a mortgage
- approving the home inspection
- obtaining home and/or fire insurance
- approving the strata documents (minimum 2 years worth)
- approving the title search
- approving the property disclosure statement
- seller is aware the premises has not been used as a grow-op or manufacture of illegal substances
- seller to credit buyer for any special levies before closing or initiate holdback
- parking space and locker # and legal arrangement
- debris/garbage removal and cleaning
- appliances, etc (incl. make, model, serial)

And a bunch of buyer disclosures (Strata Property Act, obtain independent legal advice where necessary etc etc).

[tiger_handheld]

Originally Posted by Bonka

Yes a lawyer can do that for you, but you are paying them for the privilege!

If you're using a Realtor, assuming they're competent they SHOULD be more useful. The financial statements are really only a small aspect of how a strata is run. The minutes will show the details of what is actually happening with the operating funds and why the balances are where they are. Don't forget the Depreciation Report - this outlines future building expenses and what you need to do as a strata to raise them.



I agree if you're using an incompetent louse. Here's how it is. An agent who doesn't use the appropriate clauses for their buyers risk getting sued by the buyer, the seller, the seller's brokerage and whoever else is at stake. Even if the agent only cared about their own interests, the clauses they use will naturally protect you as a buyer. Run away from any agent who can't even get that right because they're an idiot - FYI, plenty of these idiots out there today too.

For stratas, as a buyer you'll want these clauses as minimum on a standard transaction:

- obtaining a mortgage
- approving the home inspection
- obtaining home and/or fire insurance
- approving the strata documents (minimum 2 years worth)
- approving the title search
- approving the property disclosure statement
- seller is aware the premises has not been used as a grow-op or manufacture of illegal substances
- seller to credit buyer for any special levies before closing or initiate holdback
- parking space and locker # and legal arrangement
- debris/garbage removal and cleaning
- appliances, etc (incl. make, model, serial)

And a bunch of buyer disclosures (Strata Property Act, obtain independent legal advice where necessary etc etc).

What do you mean by 'privilege' - what privilege am I getting by using a lawyer?

The way I see it, I can cross the border with a nexus for $50 for 5 years or a passport for $110 for 5 years. Both allow me to cross into the states - the privilege of nexus is no lines and the privilege of a passport is i can travel to other countries that do not accept nexus... maybe you can dumb it down for me in grade 5 English?

I get the lawyers are good for complex transactions part such as neighbours hut encroaching my property etc... i want to know what I should consider beyond that.

Also aren't those subjects included in the standard Contract of Purchase and sale addendum? Can you point out any additional ones that are not included? I don't have a addendum to compare...

Whats your background? Just to add some credibility to this thread

[Bonka]

You are looking at having the lawyer go over, easily a couple hundred pages worth of strata documents and I would doubt that would be included in their conveyancing pricing. I said it that way because lawyers will do anything you want, as long as it is within their scope and you pay them to do it.

The benefit of using a lawyer for RE transactions boils down to legal representation, simply that they can advise you if your deal has issues leading up to closing. Notaries can answer and give the same answers as lawyers pertaining to general questions to specific queries about your transaction but they are not lawyers who are familiar with cases and their handling. If you're using a notary and something goes sideways you'll need a real estate lawyer anyway. Again, it boils down to a case-by-case basis and your comfort level.

There is no "standard" addendum since each RE deal is different because each property is different. Addendums are blank and clauses are added as necessary. The ones pointed out are clauses you'd always put in a typical offer scenario but, for example, given the current market, say you wrote on a condo in a multiple offer situation, you'd likely need to waive most clauses to have a shot at coming out on top.

And to answer your last question, I'm in the biz...been in for a while...