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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
I have yet to see a reasonable argument for people not to vote. It truly baffles me how ignorant people can be to that power they hold. If you don't vote then you are basically saying you don't care about how your country is run and you don't see the difference in one group making decisions for the country over another group. Imagine if you worked at a place and your boss was making all sorts of dipshit plans and ideas and running your work into the ground and making your life a living hell. If you had a vote to take him out of the leaders chair, would you take that vote? Or live in ignorance that everything will get better because that dipshit probably knows what he is doing? I'd go with the vote. If we didn't have it we would all be sheep listening to the men upstairs for direction.
It could also be argued that no matter who you choose the problems will still be there. But no matter what there's gonna be problems in the world. You can't make everyone happy, the idea is to make everyone a little bit happy in some way or another. And i seriously doubt that the problems we face today aren't as serious as the problems we faced back in the day. I've seen it said a few times in this thread that Canada is "Going downhill". what the hell does that even mean? How is it going downhill? What's worse now then before? The only thing I can think of are the things we weren't aware of or willing to give a damn before. Global warming and water levels come to mind.
If you really truly hate something then right a letter to your MLA about it. I did that on 3 occasions now and all 3 occasions I seen change(Liquor in movie theaters, extended patio laws and removing some stupid trees back in my home town).
@Everymans
Which Canadian political party is planning to re-investigate 911 or rather change its stance on its perpetrators? None.
What youre saying is that Canada should accept false flag bloodletting and to keep the status quo? How about bloodletting of our soldiers... are you okay with that? Whats the goal of this bloodletting from what you understand and why should I embrace it?
If you really truly hate something then right a letter to your MLA about it. I did that on 3 occasions now and all 3 occasions I seen change(Liquor in movie theaters, extended patio laws and removing some stupid trees back in my home town).
As I get older, increasingly I feel like democracy isn't working. Perhaps it has always been that way -- maybe it was just me being young and naive that thought things were better back then.
I have written to my MLA and MP on numerous occasions. But you know what the responses are? On "less significant" issues that have very little political implications, their PR guy / deputy would likely write back some generic bs that merely "explains" their rationale for doing precisely the thing that I complained about. It never addresses the issue that is brought up, and they just carry on doing whatever dafuq they were doing. When the complain is directly at odds with their party line, most of the time the MLA / MP doesn't even bother replying, and I am not suprised either. Generally, my letters in this case mixes a lot of harsh mockery into the complain. When someone clearly lays out some cold, hard facts regarding how ridiculous, stupid, or incompetent you are, what else can the MLA / MP staff and office say?
The one time that I was actually most impressed was when one of the police forces was involved in some sort of scandal. I can't remember which PD it was (though I'm pretty sure it wasn't the VPD nor RCMP), although I think it likely had something to deal with an officer physically assaulting a civilian. As is generally the case, I included some harsh criticism in my letter to the police chief. Much to my surprise, the municipal police chief actually took the time to call me at home. (As a rule, I always leave my home address and phone number when I write these letters.) I was at work when the police chief called, so he just left a message on the answering machine to assure me that the scandal will be dealt with in a fair and open manner, and that I should contact him personally if I have any further concerns. He definitely earned my respect that time. When it comes to our municipal, provincial, and federal politicians, Jack Layton is the only person that I have some level of respect towards.
Today is the day I convinced myself to vote conservative.
It's really not that hard to justify, the reality is this, under the current Gov. you can basically be as successful as you want to be.
People sit back and shit all over Harper and blame him for everything they aren't happy about... well, get the fuck off your lazy ass, work two part time jobs, become a dentist, and then see if you still feel like Stephen Harper is responsible for your pain and suffering while banking 500k/year.
There is a quote I like; "Capitalism is the only system that rewards virtue and punishes vice" - obviously this is a shot at socialism. When I look at the options, there is basically two far left leaning parties that will push a socialist agenda, and then the cons who will just maintain the status quo if anything.
I would like to shit on Harper for a number of things, namely;
- Interest rates, which pumped up housing
- Non existing regulation on foreign ownership of Canadian property
- Immigration policies and TFW program
But, at the same time, can I blame Harper that people think it's a good idea to lock themselves into a mortgage they can't actually afford just because the bank is willing to loan them money (not assuming any risk of course, thanks CMHC)?
So for me, while I don't think the cons are doing a good job (at all), I also don't feel like Canada needs more socialism. I feel like Canadians need to be more accountable for the choices they make, stop expecting the Gov to make things right, just get off your ass and make it right on your own.
I grew up a screw up, eventually identified opportunity, worked my bag off, got educated, got trained, continued to work my bag off and make sacrifices, and for that I get nice things like GT3's and don't live paycheque to paycheque. I didn't need, nor do I want any more help from the Gov.
I don't drink, I don't do drugs, I don't spend tons of money on stupid fucking clothes that cost too much, I don't assume any debt that I can't easily handle, and I'm always working towards further career advancement and long term stability.
I guess the point of this rant is simply to say that I don't believe that the other parties will make my life better, I think they will just result in a bigger Gov., more taxes, and more programs for the have nots who by in large, probably did it to themselves with poor life choices and work ethic.
I have family out east in PEI who just forever bitch about how "The Gov. needs to do something"... expecting more money to stimulate anything... well guess what retard, move to where the jobs are, don't just expect the Gov. to prop up failing businesses and geographic regions if there is no tangible benefit to the rest of the country.
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Originally Posted by jasonturbo
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Anyone else watch the debate lol... pretty pathetic all the way around IMO.
really? I missed it!!
Anyone have a link?
Any highlights you wanna share or coles notes the view of the 3 leaders?
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Sometimes we tend to be in despair when the person we love leaves us, but the truth is, it's not our loss, but theirs, for they left the only person who couldn't give up on them.
Make the effort and take the risk..
"Do what you feel in your heart to be right- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't." - Eleanor Roosevelt
Any highlights you wanna share or coles notes the view of the 3 leaders?
Don't have a link but it was pretty lackluster all the way around.
Pseudo-facts being used, Cons bragging about a balanced budget they are yet to achieve, Trudeau being picked on for being Trudeau, Mulcair being a lame duck, and the Green party just showing up for the sake of filling a fourth podium spot. Lot's of subtle jabs about how the election campaign is going to be so long etc.
You basically have three way left leaning parties with platforms pushing a far more socialistic agenda and the cons who are all about the status quo. Way to split the vote up team socialism!
My prediction (I know we're a long way out yet) cons stay in power with a minority or a very very very slim majority. If any of the other parties proposed a platform similar to the cons but simply provided a leader that wasn't hated like Harper they would certainly do well IMO... something less-Harper with some socialistic tendencies... but that option does not appear to exist at this time.
Meh, time will tell, I do realize Harper is not a popular man, guy has the charisma of a wet sock... but the other parties really need to start selling themselves a lot harder if they want to bump the cons out.
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Originally Posted by jasonturbo
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One thing I couldn't understand is, why are Trudeau and Mulcair not campaigning for a coalition government, or at least entertain the idea of one? I remember Trudeau saying that he isn't interested in one at this point. But does he (and the Liberals) seriously think they can defeat the Cons all by themselves? If the Liberals are willing to share power with the NDP, I am quite certain that they can form a coalition majority and put Steve Harpy behind.
agreed. I think the only way to knock off Harper is for the Liberals and NDP to form a coalition. Otherwise there will be too much vote splitting going on.
No one likes admitting defeat before they need to because it is a show of weakness. I have no doubt that if a coalition is what is needed that both the NDP and the Liberals will find a way to work together to topple Harper.
For the moment, I'm sure the NDP and the Liberals think they can form a minority government so they're going to go with that until they know with certainty that this won't pan out.
Because if they do.. Harper can play each party's core against one another.. it is better to entertain coalition AFTER an election when all votes / seats are counted.
or Do it what the Alliances and the original PC did.. form one party.. but I think both party are too different to be one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traum
One thing I couldn't understand is, why are Trudeau and Mulcair not campaigning for a coalition government, or at least entertain the idea of one? I remember Trudeau saying that he isn't interested in one at this point. But does he (and the Liberals) seriously think they can defeat the Cons all by themselves? If the Liberals are willing to share power with the NDP, I am quite certain that they can form a coalition majority and put Steve Harpy behind.
No one likes admitting defeat before they need to because it is a show of weakness. I have no doubt that if a coalition is what is needed that both the NDP and the Liberals will find a way to work together to topple Harper.
For the moment, I'm sure the NDP and the Liberals think they can form a minority government so they're going to go with that until they know with certainty that this won't pan out.
Pretty much this. By saying that you're forming a coalition, you've admitted to the voting public that you feel that you don't have a strong enough platform to stand on your own and you're already defeated.
Honestly, it probably will come down to this.
The frustrating thing is that all three major parties (no, I don't Green as a viable party) have parts that I agree with, and parts that I don't.
I like the Con's platform when it comes to small business but I strongly dislike C-51 and many of the misgivings that certain party members have gotten away with (yes, I realize this isn't just a Conservative party issue). I also strongly dislike how opaque they are when it comes to getting information and how many, many party members and scientists are essentially muzzled. Oh, and the fact that they've taken us out of most major world emission treaties and lost us the seat on the UN Security Council to freakin' Portugal.
The NDP intrigues me when it comes to emissions and alternative fuel solutions, their commitment to fixing Harper's cuts to Foreign Aid, and reintroducing the Long Form Consensus, but I disagree with them bringing back door-to-door service for Canada Post, and the abolishment of the Senate (though I agree an overhaul is needed).
At this point, I also suspect the total number of seats will give the Cons the ability to form a minority government. But by then, the Liberals and NDP would have enough seats to form a majority coalition government as well.
What would be very interesting is, if at that point, both the Cons and the Lib-NDP coalition approach the GG and ask him to grant them the right to form government, we would have a crazy few days (or even weeks) in Ottawa. I am just not sure whether that'd be a good or bad thing...
If the Liberals and NDP were so similar, they would've joined forces a long time ago. This is a non-starter. They have more differences than they have similarities.
In reality, Liberals and Conservatives are MUCH closer together, and you know no one is remotely suggesting that they join together. By my account, the liberals have only gone further left when Chretien handed over the keys -- and they've suffered mightily for it.
I personally want a central-right party when it comes to economics, centre-left when it comes to social issues, and centre for all other issues. I hate extremes -- from the greens and their environment party, to ndp and their social policy, to the conservatives and their big brother policy.
Justin Trudeau himself is actually very left leaning. Of course, given the Trudeau legacy, can't possibly join anything other than the Liberals. Additionally, just because he is left leaning doesn't necessarily mean he can steer the Liberals to a hard left either.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonturbo
Spoiler!
Today is the day I convinced myself to vote conservative.
It's really not that hard to justify, the reality is this, under the current Gov. you can basically be as successful as you want to be.
People sit back and shit all over Harper and blame him for everything they aren't happy about... well, get the fuck off your lazy ass, work two part time jobs, become a dentist, and then see if you still feel like Stephen Harper is responsible for your pain and suffering while banking 500k/year.
There is a quote I like; "Capitalism is the only system that rewards virtue and punishes vice" - obviously this is a shot at socialism. When I look at the options, there is basically two far left leaning parties that will push a socialist agenda, and then the cons who will just maintain the status quo if anything.
I would like to shit on Harper for a number of things, namely;
- Interest rates, which pumped up housing
- Non existing regulation on foreign ownership of Canadian property
- Immigration policies and TFW program
But, at the same time, can I blame Harper that people think it's a good idea to lock themselves into a mortgage they can't actually afford just because the bank is willing to loan them money (not assuming any risk of course, thanks CMHC)?
So for me, while I don't think the cons are doing a good job (at all), I also don't feel like Canada needs more socialism. I feel like Canadians need to be more accountable for the choices they make, stop expecting the Gov to make things right, just get off your ass and make it right on your own.
I grew up a screw up, eventually identified opportunity, worked my bag off, got educated, got trained, continued to work my bag off and make sacrifices, and for that I get nice things like GT3's and don't live paycheque to paycheque. I didn't need, nor do I want any more help from the Gov.
I don't drink, I don't do drugs, I don't spend tons of money on stupid fucking clothes that cost too much, I don't assume any debt that I can't easily handle, and I'm always working towards further career advancement and long term stability.
I guess the point of this rant is simply to say that I don't believe that the other parties will make my life better, I think they will just result in a bigger Gov., more taxes, and more programs for the have nots who by in large, probably did it to themselves with poor life choices and work ethic.
I have family out east in PEI who just forever bitch about how "The Gov. needs to do something"... expecting more money to stimulate anything... well guess what retard, move to where the jobs are, don't just expect the Gov. to prop up failing businesses and geographic regions if there is no tangible benefit to the rest of the country.
The thing is, while I can appreciate your point of view on this, is maybe we shouldn't just be voting for who makes our lives better, but makes the lives of the majority better. I want to live in a country full of happy, successful people. Crime naturally goes down when people aren't so desperate. Companies are allowed to run such corrupt and negligent business under the cons. Evading taxes with the greatest ease. Shitting on our environment with little to no consequence. Corporations being allowed to sue our country if we don't give them what they want because we signed ourselves away for peanuts as a desperate ploy to pretend we could avoid the global economic downturn. While I can appreciate the "look out for yourself" attitude you have, the cons damage so much you can't even do that. They allow so many negatives to be out of your control that it isn't going to matter how hard your work when your country has been raped of everything it had to offer and all the money you get paid in is worth less than monopoly money.
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Originally Posted by boostfever
Westopher is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsy82
seems like you got a dick up your ass well..get that checked
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkwax
Well.. I’d hate to be the first to say it, but Westopher is correct.
Mulclair: I'm going to have beard nightmares with all of the tax hikes behind a phalanx of grizzly left wing fur
Trudeau: Ken doll with a long cord, once pulled, the string will slowly work it's way back into his lower spine while droning out buzz words robotically
May: She is like the nice lady who sells you organic teas and talks about con tails and ley lines who likes to rightly point out how Harper just changes the rules as he goes along
Harper: Smirking the entire time, he knows his competition doesn't come across very strong. Best closing speech. All other closing speeches fell completely flat.
The thing is, while I can appreciate your point of view on this, is maybe we shouldn't just be voting for who makes our lives better, but makes the lives of the majority better. I want to live in a country full of happy, successful people. Crime naturally goes down when people aren't so desperate. Companies are allowed to run such corrupt and negligent business under the cons. Evading taxes with the greatest ease. Shitting on our environment with little to no consequence. Corporations being allowed to sue our country if we don't give them what they want because we signed ourselves away for peanuts as a desperate ploy to pretend we could avoid the global economic downturn. While I can appreciate the "look out for yourself" attitude you have, the cons damage so much you can't even do that. They allow so many negatives to be out of your control that it isn't going to matter how hard your work when your country has been raped of everything it had to offer and all the money you get paid in is worth less than monopoly money.
THIS. RIGHT. FUCKING. HERE.
My vote is going to go to who I think will do the most good. Although I disagree with some platform issues that a party has, if I believe they are going to the benefit the majority and Canada as a whole, my vote is going to them. I've been voting this way for municipal elections all the way to federal.
I'm willing to concede on some issues that I disagree with so long as the majority benefits.
The only thing I want from our gov't is a more open approach to industries.
Fuck the dairy cartel and cellphone oligopoly. They were all created due to the fact of protectionism. But the truth is, what are we really protecting here?
The benefit of a small group of people/companies or the benefit of all Canadians?
If there's enough incentive, businesses will adjust and evolve to be more competitive. There is no need for gov't intervention in between. If there are farmers who would be out of job due to incompetence, educate them, create programs to assist them. But don't straight up limit competition so they can scratch their balls all day while making unreasonable economic profit (from an economic theory point of view, not pure $$$).
Each party (based on looks\speech\or political stance) is engineered to cater to different segments of the population. This way there isnt a majority of unified votes going to one party, thus no one has any idea who will win.
In conclusion the winner could be already chosen and Canadians will have no way of knowing where all the actual votes went in the end.
Here I cornered a RS member that supposedly worked in a voting office on local voting accountability... his response was I dont know, Im as stupid as the next guy. http://www.revscene.net/forums/68269...ml#post8207228
I can appreciate that some people believe that the left leaning parties are better for the "greater good" as opposed to what benefits one as an individual.
However, I still feel that socialism simply removes accountability from the individual.
Edit: Food for thought, when you grow up in an environment where people know the Gov will support them regardless of their personal efforts or ambitions, how does it impact Canada when considering globalization?
We tend to think of Canads as a prosperous nation but have spent the last 15 years + relying on natural resources, immigration, and real estate to prop the economy up. Perhaps many believe that things here should be better, when in fact, things should actually be much worse.
Edit #2: Oddly enough, provincially I voted NDP, Notley is much less left leaning though, and the Alberta Cons had just spent the last 2-3 years shitting the bed in an unprecedented way.
Edit #3: Corporate taxes are already too high in Canada as it is, when was the last time a a foreign based company decided to move their operations to Canada for any sort of competitive advantage? Never, because our taxes and regulatory environment seems bad for business compared to other economic super powers.
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Last edited by jasonturbo; 08-07-2015 at 04:35 AM.
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Originally Posted by jasonturbo
Edit #3: Corporate taxes are already too high in Canada as it is, when was the last time a a foreign based company decided to move their operations to Canada for any sort of competitive advantage? Never, because our taxes and regulatory environment seems bad for business compared to other economic super powers.
Wow, where have you been? Many US firms have been switching their HQs to Canada, some companies (most notably Burger King) faced public outrage over their consideration on moving to Canada, we've got a far lower corporate tax rate than the US and many European nations...
We tend to think of Canads as a prosperous nation but have spent the last 15 years + relying on natural resources, immigration, and real estate to prop the economy up. Perhaps many believe that things here should be better, when in fact, things should actually be much worse.
.
Heres food for thought, why doesnt Canada nationalize oil and other commodities? Which political party has ever brought this issue up?
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Heres food for thought, why doesnt Canada nationalize oil and other commodities? Which political party has ever brought this issue up?
that's a good point, I'm all for nationalization, unfortunately everyones got their hands in corporate pockets, and the public are too stupid/selfish to be accepting of it, so we'd never see that happening. Heck we have to fight tooth and nail to keep our healthcare system since the corporations and government want to axe that
maybe if Jack Layton didn't pass away we'd have an NDP government and some nationalizing happening (who knows, probably not)
I don't think we'll ever have a leader working to benefit Canadians like a Tommy Douglas or Lester Pearson again
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