^$66k for a Performance Model 3 seems like a great deal.

^Not to mention 4k federal rebate.

Performance Model 3 does not qualify for federal rebate as the MSRP is more than $65,000

EDIT: The long range Model 3 does qualify as per federal website

$60000 at 96m at 9% is $880 a month + $220 icbc is $1100 a month :okay:

Oh ok. Looks like LR is eligible for 5k federal rebate
https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transpo...gible-vehicles

The best way to look at this is to subtract how much you spend on gas from that number. If you do enough driving, it makes it a lot cheaper.

new volvo ex30 and ex90

the size of the ex30 looks great!

TBH, more often than not, it's about user's stubbornness with what they are familiar with.

Auto vs. stick
backup camera vs. just learn to drive
shifter knob vs. buttons

Look at when iPhone was introduced with no keyboard and no stylus. How many of the biggest names in the tech industry mocked Apple saying "people want a f**** keyboard". And how they mocked when they removed 3.5mm plug? How they mocked Apple when they removed DVD drive from MBP... "that's not PRO!!!"

Look when ICE cars were introduced and horse people were mocking about "where would you find gas?"

The list goes on.

The truth is, that consumers don't usually know what they want. The idea is to find something better, however little, and just present it to the public. Just because something is universally accepted doesn't mean that it's the best way to do it.

The best part is no part. The worst thing to do is to optimize things that shouldn't exist in the first place. Look at BMW's infotainment system. The iDrive system was horrendous, to say the least, and what was the next generation of that? Oh... they added hand gestures to do some stuff like volume control when they literally still have the volume button right there.

I drove a Model S loaner/kinda a test-drive once when I dropped my X for some adjustments. The missing stalk felt weird the first minute, but not unlike when I first got into a car where the gear selection was buttons/knobs instead of a stick/stalk. And to be totally frank... that's how far it goes the "weirdness". After a minute, you knew where it was and that's about it. You don't think about it. It's like when they added the infotainment control to the steering wheel. It was different... the first minute. Then you got used to them and never again did you touch the buttons on the center console.

There's no physical/safety reason for the stalk to be there. It's just how everyone has always done that way.

I'd disagree with your assessment on the change to the steering wheel mounted buttons for turn signals.

As Teriyaki has said:
There is a functional reason that makes the good ol' turn signal stalk a superior design compared to steering wheel mounted buttons, and the steering wheel mounted buttons create a functional nightmare as far as usability is concerned.

The examples you've cite are also inappropriate in comparison to the turn signal stalk vs buttons example.

Auto vs stick is an entire paradigm change. During normal forward operation, the automatic transmission means you don't really need a stick to function, so you don't really need a shifter 95% of the time when you are driving an automatic car.

Backup camera is a superior technology bcos it enables the driver to see what he cannot see from just learning to drive -- it literally shows you the driver blind spot.

Shifter knob vs buttons aren't functionally too different. It's a matter of preference.

If you haven't used a Blackberry before, the physical keyboard makes its vastly superior for typing compared to the iPhone virtual buttons. The only reason the full touchscreen design won over is because the smart phone operating model shifted from typing-based to a touch-based GUI, so the real estate taken up by a physical KB became a liability instead of a strength, and it went the way of the dodo bird.

With cars, the need to issue turn signals does not change regardless of how it is implemented, at least until telepathy / FSD AI is used. And with the steering wheel mounted buttons, it is functionally deficient compared to the universally accepted and adopted standard.

But like I said -- BMW owners are not gonna miss the turn signal stalk one bit. EleGiggle

The Tesla apologists are insufferable.

Disagree with some points. iDrive was one of the best infotainment systems until the recent buttonless iteration. The Tesla all on the screen implementation isn't the worst out there, but it certainly isn't the best.

The argument that you don't need buttons is wrong, as it has been echoed by many UX/UI professionals. In the case of the cars, marketing won out. Marketing and sales wins over common sense in a lot of places, not just cars. It shows as BMW and VW are both showing signs are backtracking on their recent buttonless designs.

I do agree with some consumers not knowing what they want, and sometimes iterative designs have to be done in market to see what works and what doesn't. The gas vs horse thing isn't a great comparison as gas engines had a long way to go whereas a button for signals is.... a button for signals. The potential iterations would be to put the button on the dash board, or *gasp* put it on a stick somewhere. Control stalks have been a staple interactive piece in cars for a reason. Buttons on the dashboard and on the steering wheel for these functions have been tried and discard many times. Look at the Tesla yolk, it's a failed iteration and imo the stalkless design would fall in the same bucket. I mean, if you did this on a BMW it wouldn't matter since BMW drivers don't use signals anyways :badpokerface:

I still lament the loss of the 3.5mm audio jack on phones. From a cost perspective, removing it is a significant saving as it removes one complexity for software and hardware design, it's probably 10 or so parts less than before to source or R&D on, and it's a huge win for IP ratings, so the value of it from a manufacturer's perspective is huge. As an audiophile consumer, BT headphones a few years ago was nowhere near the quality, nor was battery tech there. We've seen improvements in both, and in terms of the trade off between ease of use and quality the gap and tradeoffs have narrowed significantly. Now that I have kids and can't really enjoy music the way I used to, the tradeoff for BT has finally won out and I will no longer search for a phone with 3.5mm jack for the next replacement, but I was a hold out for a long time.

I was wondering when Hehe would comment on the turning signal stalk -> buttons issue.

I get that some would prefer it one way or the other. But the point still remains. Just because the majority do/think in any particular way doesn't mean that's THE way to do it.

We are simply not presented with an alternative.

I dunno which i-Drive version you tried, but I've had from 2006 all the way to 2017 in various BMWs and Mini. And they are just shit. Even if you are talking about today's i-Drive... it still begs the question, WTF is the wheel knob still there?! It could totally have migrated to a full touchscreen system and developed without buttons.

The only reason I can think of was to not alter the experience that loyalty BMW drivers have become accustomed to. But it was shit. You can pour whatever amount of cologne on it and it wouldn't stop stinking. As soon as it was offered with Apple CarPlay, we moved to that immediately and use that almost exclusively when we are in the car even we paid for $$$ nav system and whatever.

And Carplay wasn't all that amazing when it first became available for BMW IIRC. But it was miles ahead of i-Drive.

At this point in the development of cars you don't mess with things that are technically a safety function. You don't have to have the pedals in a particular order either but if you deviate from the standard nowadays you're a moron.

Everything else was just drivel and off-topic.

Whats an actual argument that the newly presented alternative is "better". 2 directional buttons that are not static, that can be easily disorienting to the user whenever the wheel is not center. I'm actually curious.

Turn signal should be on before making a turn, right? :troll:

here in Richmond we turn first, then activate the signal

But sometimes the steering wheel is upside down... or the car itself is upside down

The one that kills me is when you see TM3s in Richmond driving with their blinkers on... like... I've been in one and it's SUPER OBVIOUS from the giant ass screen on the dash that your turn signal is on nevermind the loud-ass clicking... how can you possibly not notice that lol

Speaking of the turn signal chime, mines used to be loud when it comes on, but after a software update, it became a lot more quieter, could hardly hear it with the music on.

Just saw this now.. I'm not worrying about anything since I don't own either a tesla or a toyota. I'm simply stating that if you own a car within 150000km on the odo, you can come out ahead in your telsa. But for more than that on your odo, an ICE car will cost cheaper if not the same as an EV, given how much it cost to replace the battery now.

20k to replace a tesla battery vs 3-5k to do a engine replacement on a camry.

Every car's engine has a chance to blow up, a camry' engine is way less likely to fail than a tesla's battery, it has stood years and million miles of test. I don't know what point you are trying to make

Both the interior and exterior door handle design of tesla is a big deal breaker for me. Just reading how people got trapped to death in car crashes because either the firefighters can't open the door or the victims couldn't free themselves is such a haunting experience. Just make a normal door handle for fuck's sake.

They couldn't even program a battery charger properly so I'm not surprised their door handles are a hazard.

ugh, this stupidity is/has spread to non tesla's now too. Pretty much all the new lexusususus come with this electronic door handle and ive read its a bitch to deal with. In the winter time apparently you cant even open the door anymore because the electronic latch freezes and you cant even get in.

You guys are beating a dead horse.
Tesla batteries are designed to last 300,000-500,000 miles, longer than anyone keeps their cars these days I'm sure EV batteries will become cheaper to replace as time goes on. Engines can go 300-500,000 miles if not longer with proper maintenance.
I guess it's time to start an Electric Hybrid Car Thread for Adults?

I doubt your tranny:ifyouknow: can go 200,000 miles even with proper maintenance. These are wear and tear items, maybe 100 miles if it's a dsg/ cvt. Or BMWs grenading before the warranty is over :troll:

"Designed" how naive does one have to be to believe your tesla can last 300 if not 500k miles. Delusional, not even all toyota models can make that claim. Let me know when you make it there, or when tesla has stood the time of test.