Electric and Hybrid Car Thread

[RabidRat]

Paging @ssjGoku69, was this you I spotted?

[tegra7]

Mod's can you make it so i don't have to see is350's posts. Please and thanks!

Impressive, but someone will probably say its fake.
https://twitter.com/IovePianoBlack/s...ow-194534.html

Same car currently over 600,000kms
https://twitter.com/IovePianoBlack/s...004672/photo/1

[RabidRat]

Uhh I looked but don't see any obvious way to help you guys respectively ignore each other's posts, it is pretty old forum code. It does give an option to do 14 day bans from a thread though.

So how about in the interest of keeping a friendly vibe on here, we all agree to disagree and drop the anti-Tesla debate. I can help do the 2 week ban-from-thread thing if someone intentionally keeps on it. PM me if I miss it!

Edit: ok looks like this is being voted down, so n/m. hey i tried!

[Great68]

Oh come on now, the Tesla vs X posts of today remind me of the Imports vs Domestics arguments of the early 2000's on Revscene!

Those arguments back then were way more vicious than this...

[RabidRat]

I know, but it seems like we're all on here for a different reason now, for a nostalgic escape from 20 years of increasing responsibility? Kind of sucks to come on here and see folks get personal.

But yeah if a bunch of people wind up thanking your post and agreeing to keep it that way then sure.

[tegra7]

Having a debate is one thing. Calling people delusional and saying they're talking out of their behind is personal.

[is350]

Originally Posted by tegra7

Having a debate is one thing. Calling people delusional and saying they're talking out of their behind is personal.

Did I specifically call you delusional? Go back and read my original post. You took my post personally yourself, my guy. You lost the argument, the truth hurts so much, you are trying to stop me from talking lol...

Why even try to defend tesla's battery long term reliability when the brand isn't even in the market long enough to prove itself vs other ICE car brands? That's on you.

"Better still, Elon Musk, Tesla's CEO, claims every new Tesla battery should last between 300,000 and 500,000 miles" Elon Musk also claimed cybertruck's window is bulletproof, then the window is broken when a rock is thrown to it right after. Do you really believe your tesla will go 300,000 miles? That's the real question. If in another 5 to 10 years, Tesla has consistent data showing it can break that barrier, then I will shut up. But until then, it's just a wild and delusional claim at this point.

Saw a tesla taxi today, that was pretty cool.

[tegra7]

How did I lose an argument? You called BS when I said tesla batteries are designed to go 300-500,000miles, approx 1500 charge cycles.. Then you said I lied about the sources of teslas that have gone over 300,000miles which I ended up posting one of on this page. You brought on the subject of long term reliability(I'm assuming the model 3). What's the point in talking about long term reliability of a car that's barely 7 years old? Apparently you can see into the future claiming every tesla will need the battery pack swapped every 10 years @20k a pop which will make it more expensive to own in the long run compared to an ICE vehicle. |Maybe the batteries will crap out, who knows. Only time will tell.

[Hehe]

Here is what I find about Tesla haters...

They want to believe that what they have grown used to (ICE cars/legacy automakers in general) are the way to go. This new player, (Tesla) who came in to disrupt the market, got nothing.

As they see Tesla doing better and better, they need to continue to find arguments to convince themselves psychologically that what they believe is right.

Worse, when they are faced with others commenting about what Tesla is doing right, the first thing they do is to find some articles, regardless the credibility of the source and/or validity/existence of data, in an attempt to make others to gaslight about Tesla.

The truth is, most of them never sat inside a Tesla for a sec. And even if they do, they are so blindly focusing on things like panel gaps, lack of buttons... etc etc... instead of actually enjoying what this newcomer has to offer. Because no car/brand is perfect.

I like Tesla because dollar for dollar, I'd say it's impossible to find a car from another manufacturer that I enjoy as much. Not only that... they are constantly improving.

If you look at a Model 3 from 2018/19 vs one from 2023, it's vastly better.

My bro took delivery of his Model Y Performance earlier this year, and it was flawless. He might have gotten lucky. But one could see Tesla is making improvements.

I've never said "it's Te$la or nothing sucka!". I enjoy other cars like my buddy's 911 Targa, my dad's LX570, mentor's Ferrari and one of my ultimate goal is to one day be able to buy a Pagani, an absolute art.

But for the price that I'm paying for Model 3, Y, S and X... I find it hard to compare.

I'm thinking really hard about to upgrade my X with a new X Plaid. It's 133k after fucking luxury tax. It's a freaking beast that does 0-60 in 2.2, 1/4miles under 10, and carries more than 1000HP. What other option do I have for 133k? BMW X5/6M are 140k+, Benz AMGs and Audi RSQs are about there if not more. What do I get? 0-60 is slower, 1/4miles is slower, less HP, higher operating cost, more maintenance... I can go on.

The question comes down to, WTF am I getting for the same money in legacy brands over Tesla? I can't think of anything that's worth the trade. But again, that's me.

[is350]

Originally Posted by tegra7

How did I lose an argument? You called BS when I said tesla batteries are designed to go 300-500,000miles, approx 1500 charge cycles.. Then you said I lied about the sources of teslas that have gone over 300,000miles which I ended up posting one of on this page. You brought on the subject of long term reliability(I'm assuming the model 3). What's the point in talking about long term reliability of a car that's barely 7 years old? Apparently you can see into the future claiming every tesla will need the battery pack swapped every 10 years @20k a pop which will make it more expensive to own in the long run compared to an ICE vehicle. |Maybe the batteries will crap out, who knows. Only time will tell.

ya you posted 1 self claimed tesla owner with over 600k km, I can also post someone (an anomaly) with over 600k from a unreliable car brand.

The point is, you tried to defend tesla's long term reliability by posting a wild claim by Elon which is yet to be proven by most owners, and my point still stands because reliable ICE cars have already proven to have lower ownership cost over a certain mileage.

[Manic!]

I have no idea why we are comparing a Camry to a Tesla but a Camry is going to cost more to run per year. A Tesla has less moving parts to break and requires no oil changes and brakes that last a lifetime. If you have 300k on a Camry and the engine goes it's time to get a new car and not replace the engine.

A quick search in the US shows 4 Tesla's with over 200000 miles on them for sale.

[Badhobz]

Yeah yeah yeah less moving parts but if you’re like dark or my other friend who had to replace the screen on his model X. That’s like thousands of dollars worth of bullshit hassle that nobody wants to deal with. Door latches not opening, leaks in the trunk / roof, screens failing, trim coming lose / rattling.

Yes that doesn’t factor into running costs, but the build quality and overall lack of proper fit and finish for a new car is pretty atrocious. Sure I guess some people don’t care about that kinda stuff, but it’s still frustrating if you’re spending 50-60k on a new car.

Sure that battery pack and electric motor might last 300,000kms but that interior sure as shit doesn’t look like it’ll last more than a few years.

[EvoFire]

I never made any arguments about the battery because I've read articles that talk about Teslas that've gone the distance. I think 200k -300k is not out of the question but most ppl just simply don't drive that much before getting rid of the car, and most ppl that need to drive that much typically wouldn't pick an EV due to range anxiety, charge anxiety, and battery deg.

A Camry will do 500km to a tank at 0km and if you keep up maintenance will still do close to that at 200k.
A Tesla will do 500km on a charge, 400km in the winter (pulling this out of my ass), and maybe do 300-350km in the winter after 200k. It would be hard to get a first adopter who drives 100k a year to make the switch if it means he needs to go charge it everyday in the middle or end of day. It's not so much the inconvenience but the unknown.

For the rest of us peons, I realistically don't think it matters THAT much which drivetrain type it is. I am a typical Vancouver driver who works from home. I put on about 4k on my car a year, the family bus gets about 9k. The Tesla would replace the bus but my M3 is still staying, so the Tesla still gets about 9k a years. My gas cost isn't enough to justify getting a Tesla when an equivalent BMW or Porsche gives me more enjoyment and a better interior. I want to say better looking car but the new BMWs looks like shit.

I've test drove a TMYP and I took it home for the night. It was interesting but boring, the acceleration was fun for a bit, but my biggest problem was subjectively I hate the seats. I have a big ass and the seats just weren't comfortable with the seat bolsters digging into my ass. The other things I don't like are Tesla making change for the sake of change, BMW and VW are now doing a lot of the same thing with their interior design, trying to make change and copying Tesla despite it not being the functional design.

I cannot pretend that Tesla does not have quality problems when half the people I know who buy them has to bring it back for fixes. Also first hand reports from inside Tesla who has to deal with plenty of issues. Being told point blank to not get a TMX out of warranty unless I have money and time to waste, by some one who works on them, isn't a confidence boost.

I have more confidence with other electric cars, but unfortunately they do not have the same level of battery tech and drivetrain tech as Tesla and they are STILL playing catchup. It's unfortunate no manufacturer currently has the whole package for me.

[Koflach]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

I never made any arguments about the battery because I've read articles that talk about Teslas that've gone the distance. I think 200k -300k is not out of the question but most ppl just simply don't drive that much before getting rid of the car, and most ppl that need to drive that much typically wouldn't pick an EV due to range anxiety, charge anxiety, and battery deg.

A Camry will do 500km to a tank at 0km and if you keep up maintenance will still do close to that at 200k.
A Tesla will do 500km on a charge, 400km in the winter (pulling this out of my ass), and maybe do 300-350km in the winter after 200k. It would be hard to get a first adopter who drives 100k a year to make the switch if it means he needs to go charge it everyday in the middle or end of day. It's not so much the inconvenience but the unknown.

For the rest of us peons, I realistically don't think it matters THAT much which drivetrain type it is. I am a typical Vancouver driver who works from home. I put on about 4k on my car a year, the family bus gets about 9k. The Tesla would replace the bus but my M3 is still staying, so the Tesla still gets about 9k a years. My gas cost isn't enough to justify getting a Tesla when an equivalent BMW or Porsche gives me more enjoyment and a better interior. I want to say better looking car but the new BMWs looks like shit.

I've test drove a TMYP and I took it home for the night. It was interesting but boring, the acceleration was fun for a bit, but my biggest problem was subjectively I hate the seats. I have a big ass and the seats just weren't comfortable with the seat bolsters digging into my ass. The other things I don't like are Tesla making change for the sake of change, BMW and VW are now doing a lot of the same thing with their interior design, trying to make change and copying Tesla despite it not being the functional design.

I cannot pretend that Tesla does not have quality problems when half the people I know who buy them has to bring it back for fixes. Also first hand reports from inside Tesla who has to deal with plenty of issues. Being told point blank to not get a TMX out of warranty unless I have money and time to waste, by some one who works on them, isn't a confidence boost.

I have more confidence with other electric cars, but unfortunately they do not have the same level of battery tech and drivetrain tech as Tesla and they are STILL playing catchup. It's unfortunate no manufacturer currently has the whole package for me.

I had a BMW with M package recently as a loaner while I was getting an ICBC claim fixed on my Model 3 and loved the seats in it, easily one of the best seats i've sat in in a car. My biggest dislike with the model 3 are the seats, the side bolsters are too aggressive for someone with a big ass.

I disliked pretty much everything else about the BMW but damn, those seats were comfy.

[Traum]

Not a Tesla fanboi here, but I am fairly interested in its perceived low-ish operating cost. The recent price cuts have also sparked my interest, although I can't really see myself owning a Tesla until they make a U-turn on the steering wheel signal stalk design.

Some quick Googling suggests that there is no shortage of 300k+ miles Model S and Model 3.

Tesloop, a Califoria-based taxi company, apparently maintains a fleet of at least 7 Teslas -- with at least some of them being Model S and Model X. They have Teslas in the 100k - 300k+ miles range. Some batteries have been replaced, though apparently not bcos of degradation issue, but packaging issues. Generally, it seems like their experience is -- the battery doesn't degrade too much, but other issues such as range estimate and power level reductions bcos of that -- do come up. One of their Model X lost 23% of its range after 330k+ miles.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/a-te...-300000-miles/
https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-...eresting-data/

And here is a Canadian Model 3 with 500k km:

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/t...ow-194534.html

20% battery degradation on the original battery, but the owner supercharges the battery a lot.

What does this tell us about Tesla's long term reliability? Personally, I am not really sure. There are million miles Toyotas and even Subarus, although most of those have at least had their transmission rebuilt / swapped, and maybe more. Do we generally expect ICE drivetrains to last 300k miles? or even just 300k km? I dunno about you, but I certainly don't. Personally, I'd only expect the most reliable engines -- those from Honda and Toyota -- to last 250 - 300k km with regular maintenance. I'd expect transmissions to have shorter life spans -- maybe 200k km or less?

We know Tesla's built quality is not as high as many other makes, so a lot of BS stuff that shouldn't break would break.

When the time comes for me to replace one of my ICE vehicles, I hope to do so with an EV. Tesla might be a contender, but I'd also hope traditional manufacturers would make an appealing enough product for me to consider. For now, this seems like the most promising candidate -- if it comes to the N.American market...

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Manic!

I have no idea why we are comparing a Camry to a Tesla but a Camry is going to cost more to run per year.

Not necessarily, you have to drive enough to offset any difference in purchase price and insurance. Even if the car was a straight swap and electricity was free I don't use enough gas in a year to offset the difference in insurance people are reporting.

[whitev70r]

Uh, you can add someone on your ignore list and their posts won't show up. Pretty easy setting in User CP, top left corner. Settings. Edit Ignore List.

This is the only way I can stay sane on RS.

Originally Posted by tegra7

Mod's can you make it so i don't have to see is350's posts. Please and thanks!

Originally Posted by RabidRat

Uhh I looked but don't see any obvious way to help you guys respectively ignore each other's posts, it is pretty old forum code. It does give an option to do 14 day bans from a thread though.

So how about in the interest of keeping a friendly vibe on here, we all agree to disagree and drop the anti-Tesla debate. I can help do the 2 week ban-from-thread thing if someone intentionally keeps on it. PM me if I miss it!

Edit: ok looks like this is being voted down, so n/m. hey i tried!

[donk.]

If you can't handle some comments on the internet towards "you", then you should not be on the internet......

I swear people need de-sensitivity classes

Why put someone on your ignore list, they ain't yo ex-gf..... it's just quality entertainment

[noclue]

My model Y is $2700 with full discount with ICBC. a BMW IX is $2.2K...
I just heard a Model X is $4k+ with ICBC full discount!!!

There goes all the gas savings lmao

[Koflach]

Originally Posted by underscore

Not necessarily, you have to drive enough to offset any difference in purchase price and insurance. Even if the car was a straight swap and electricity was free I don't use enough gas in a year to offset the difference in insurance people are reporting.

Under the old ICBC system, I went from $176.80 per month for full business use with no accidents on a 2015 Hyundai Sonata to $177.71 per month for a 2018 Tesla Model 3 when I bought it new.

I moved over to Stratford a few years ago as they were significantly cheaper than ICBC and was spending roughly $160/month. They recently raised their rates though but are still cheaper than ICBC, my current rate is $208.68 per month.

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by noclue

My model Y is $2700 with full discount with ICBC. a BMW IX is $2.2K...
I just heard a Model X is $4k+ with ICBC full discount!!!

There goes all the gas savings lmao

yeah the government is gonna want their pound of flesh somehow. If not in the gas taxes, then they'll just rape you in insurance or some other bullshit.

I got a feeling as more and more adoption takes place, the price of these EV chargers will rise and soon they'll introduce a "carbon" tax on EV charging as they'll make some bullshit up. At least in BC our electricity is mostly hydro so that's more renewable and green. But Ontario and AB's energy is all coal or gas-based

[whitev70r]

Originally Posted by donk.

If you can't handle some comments on the internet towards "you", then you should not be on the internet......

I swear people need de-sensitivity classes

Why put someone on your ignore list, they ain't yo ex-gf..... it's just quality entertainment

I've added you to my ignore list.

[donk.]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

I've added you to my ignore list.

Your one of many women that has

[trollface]

Let's hug it out bros.

[radeonboy]

Saw this riced out Model 3 recently - can't imagine how much these mods cost the owner.