Electric and Hybrid Car Thread

[68style]

Should have asked someone in the program that has one of those at my work, they probably would have paid you to take it if that was possible lol

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by 68style

Should have asked someone in the program that has one of those at my work, they probably would have paid you to take it if that was possible lol

What issues are ya seeing? Your info on the PowerBoost was a big reason I avoided that model tbh

[AstulzerRZD]

bro wtf so we have 100A service at home, so we have to...

1) Get a subpanel
2) Install a charger that can see how much energy the rest of the home is using and load manage the charger

Else, we gotta blow $5k+ on upgrading our service to 200A + a new panel.

[whitev70r]

^ interesting, my TH might be in similar situation. Can you give ball park figure on how much to do your setup instead of the $5K upgrade to 200A + new panel option? And would you recommend whoever you're using?

[SSM_DC5]

Dealing with hydro is like 1k by itself. The other 4k depends on how far apart everything is and how much the electrician wants to gouge you on permits.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

bro wtf so we have 100A service at home, so we have to...

1) Get a subpanel
2) Install a charger that can see how much energy the rest of the home is using and load manage the charger

Else, we gotta blow $5k+ on upgrading our service to 200A + a new panel.

Check with BC Hydro. They have a program that allows the installation of a second meter (combined on their backend to a single account) if (technically) you are adding it to accommodate EV chargers.

Assuming you don't need to add a new pole and trench to bury the wires, it can be quite a bit cheaper than upgrading to a 200amp. So, you can have 2x100amp services and all you need are still the cheap 100amp panels and stuff.

I did this when I moved into my house and asked for a 100amp-->400amp service upgrade. They ended up installing 2x200amp, saving me a good chunk of money as 1x400amp service requires a new transformer or something on-site and a very expensive (relative to 200amps) 400amp panel.

[68style]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

What issues are ya seeing? Your info on the PowerBoost was a big reason I avoided that model tbh

Honestly I think it's more of a curmudgeon problem than anything and the type of usage the vehicle gets.

It's in downtown Vancouver, there's no ability to charge in our building parkade on anything besides a regular outlet which is incredibly slow... it's a pretty close to launch model standard range, but the range does dip a LOT in the winter, like they were reporting dips down to 140-180km on a full charge in -5C weather. We've had some brake issues with it within the first 2,000km something went funny with the regen, but the dealer fixed it under warranty.

They go to Squamish and back quite frequently for science related matters and sometimes that involves going on service roads and charge levels become a concern... I mean Squamish/Brackendale isn't exactly the boonies, but if you're out in the woods you're out in the woods. I can understand their concerns and their desire for a regular truck. As such, it's not seen much usage and they really want to give it away to another program.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by 68style

Honestly I think it's more of a curmudgeon problem than anything and the type of usage the vehicle gets.

It's in downtown Vancouver, there's no ability to charge in our building parkade on anything besides a regular outlet which is incredibly slow... it's a pretty close to launch model standard range, but the range does dip a LOT in the winter, like they were reporting dips down to 140-180km on a full charge in -5C weather. We've had some brake issues with it within the first 2,000km something went funny with the regen, but the dealer fixed it under warranty.

They go to Squamish and back quite frequently for science related matters and sometimes that involves going on service roads and charge levels become a concern... I mean Squamish/Brackendale isn't exactly the boonies, but if you're out in the woods you're out in the woods. I can understand their concerns and their desire for a regular truck. As such, it's not seen much usage and they really want to give it away to another program.

Are the trucks plugged into the outlet overnight?
I wonder if there's any battery pre-conditioning going on?

Y'all are also using these pre-Tesla adapter and supercharger ability right?
The Lectron adapter was the first thing we ordered after getting the truck (Ford has a free one but they're only going to ship in November lol)

A little bit better to hear that they're not in the dealer for weeks without any fix like the PowerBoost trucks are

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

^ interesting, my TH might be in similar situation. Can you give ball park figure on how much to do your setup instead of the $5K upgrade to 200A + new panel option? And would you recommend whoever you're using?

Let you know how it goes, have been happy with communication and quoting so far.

Your specific equipment setup also depends on the townhome / transformer setup and whether you need to add an energy management system to manage load within your townhome, or manage load overall within the townhouse complex

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by Hehe

Check with BC Hydro. They have a program that allows the installation of a second meter (combined on their backend to a single account) if (technically) you are adding it to accommodate EV chargers.

Assuming you don't need to add a new pole and trench to bury the wires, it can be quite a bit cheaper than upgrading to a 200amp. So, you can have 2x100amp services and all you need are still the cheap 100amp panels and stuff.

I did this when I moved into my house and asked for a 100amp-->400amp service upgrade. They ended up installing 2x200amp, saving me a good chunk of money as 1x400amp service requires a new transformer or something on-site and a very expensive (relative to 200amps) 400amp panel.

As far as hydro is concerned, anything over 200A is 400

The only thing you save by splitting it is, as you said the 400A integral CT cabinet and maybe a 400A panel. By requesting 2x200 you still have to pay for all the infrastructure upgrades that are applicable to a 400A service

[68style]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Are the trucks plugged into the outlet overnight?
I wonder if there's any battery pre-conditioning going on?

Y'all are also using these pre-Tesla adapter and supercharger ability right?
The Lectron adapter was the first thing we ordered after getting the truck (Ford has a free one but they're only going to ship in November lol)

A little bit better to hear that they're not in the dealer for weeks without any fix like the PowerBoost trucks are

Cuz this building is leased, they won't upgrade to any sort of proper charging, so we'd have to drive it off-site to a charger to do anything other than 110v overnight.

We were offered the adapter from Ford for free, but when you actually go to get it, you have to activate a Ford Connect account and provide a credit card that goes on file... since it's a government vehicle with only a fuel/maintenance card (which obviously it doesn't use for fuel) we had no way of adding a card to the system or get their app, so we didn't bother getting the adapter from them and no one seems to want to drive it off-site to charge either.

I have 3 Tesla's on the island and we did get adapters for those from South Korea way back when to use with BC Hydro chargers. It all depends on the motivation of the custodian of the vehicle... in this case with the Lightning they hate it so they're not doing much with it and I don't have time to babysit them lol

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by 68style

Cuz this building is leased, they won't upgrade to any sort of proper charging, so we'd have to drive it off-site to a charger to do anything other than 110v overnight.

Gotcha - it's the winter range that I'm curious about.

Is the 150KM range with or without pre-conditioning?

AFAIK battery/cabin warmup should be configurable in-truck even without the ford pass app, and should work on 110V.

[68style]

I don't know for sure to be honest, but it's parked inside a parkade so the vehicle isn't exposed to the weather until they drive it out of the parkade from 5 levels down.

[jcmaz]

Existing 100A panel doesn't mean you must upgrade to a 200A panel for EV charging. It depends on what 208/240V loads you have and the size of house. You could get a load share system and avoid the 200A upgrade.

Also, townhouse electrical is a bit funky because it is technically controlled by strata. You have to discuss with strata. It's the same with installing heat pumps in townhouses. The strata may ask for an engineer's report (often on your dime) before making a decision whether to allow EV charging/heat pump installations. This can cost thousands of dollars.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by jcmaz

Existing 100A panel doesn't mean you must upgrade to a 200A panel for EV charging. It depends on what 208/240V loads you have and the size of house. You could get a load share system and avoid the 200A upgrade.

Also, townhouse electrical is a bit funky because it is technically controlled by strata. You have to discuss with strata. It's the same with installing heat pumps in townhouses. The strata may ask for an engineer's report (often on your dime) before making a decision whether to allow EV charging/heat pump installations. This can cost thousands of dollars.

Yes! And plan so far is to do a load share system to avoid service upgrade.
The panel is full, so we're going to do a subpanel for the EV load.

Is there anything else you feel I should be aware of / consider?

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

As far as hydro is concerned, anything over 200A is 400

The only thing you save by splitting it is, as you said the 400A integral CT cabinet and maybe a 400A panel. By requesting 2x200 you still have to pay for all the infrastructure upgrades that are applicable to a 400A service

The fee paid to BC Hydro (a tad over 1k IIRC) is the same as 400A service.

But the equipment cost came down significantly. They also offered 2x100A to me, but my house was a bit overloaded as it was, so I just did the whole 400A service.

[jcmaz]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Yes! And plan so far is to do a load share system to avoid service upgrade.
The panel is full, so we're going to do a subpanel for the EV load.

Is there anything else you feel I should be aware of / consider?

Which brand of panel do you have? Some brands have space saver breakers. I would figure out the location of your charger and see if it is doable. Also is the EV charger that you are considering a hard wired one?

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by jcmaz

Which brand of panel do you have? Some brands have space saver breakers. I would figure out the location of your charger and see if it is doable. Also is the EV charger that you are considering a hard wired one?

Yep, looking at hardwired chargers; doing a lot of towing so every amp of charge we can get would help.

Breaker panel is right inside the garage... on the outside of that exact spot is where we would want to put the charger outside.

Old General Electric Panel from the 80s.

[jcmaz]

Imo it's just hardwired ev chargers are proven to last longer. I think you might need to get a load calculation done in order to maximize the allowable capacity to your charger!

[AstulzerRZD]

Bro my parents would not have been able to buy an EV without my help - there's like 50000 steps.

Pre Purchase:
1) Figure out how much their gas costs today, figure out and compare how much charging costs
2) Figure out what service, panel we have and whether it's maxed uot
3) Find an electrician to quote, choose between energy managed/service/meter upgrades
4) Choose between charging units and energy management systems
5) Figure out real world range with heat/cooling/towing

Purchase:
6) See if you qualify for provincial EV rebate, apply
7) See if the car qualifies for federal rebate, longer range trucks qualify under a small business thingy
8) Apply for BC hydro rebate for charger install

Post Purchase:
9) Buy A2Z Tesla > CCS adapter cuz Ford's free adapter ships in October
10) Setup plug and charge in Ford app for Tesla superchargers, get Tesla/BC Hydro apps since Ford app handles Flow/Chargepoint.
11) Setup battery pre-conditioning and temporary level 1 charging.
12) Figure out charge times at public chargers.
13) Get charger app to report energy used to bill back to small biz.

End result:
Previous F-150 5.0s were getting 17-21L/100km without towing, 23-27L/100km when towing a utility trailer = $50 to drive 100km
F-150 Lightning, 2.8km/kw, 9c/kw home charging so $3.15

Charger cost $4000 for a warrantied, code legal install.
Subpanel with energy management system to avoid tripping breakers - we reduce charging rate (Emporia/Wallbox) instead of shutting off the charger (DCC-9).
Could've done a tandem breaker with or without energy management for like $1.5-2.5k but wouldn't have been to code.

Total savings: $47/100km
Breakeven on charger install + additional lease costs and such happens within 10k kms or about 5 months.

[SSM_DC5]

Only car guys go to your extent when it comes to buying a pluggable vehicle. There are people out there that buy it, before consulting an electrician about options for charging.

Example, Person bought a tesla, finds a friend who's an electrician, electrician says wtf you have a detached garage, your panel is inside the house, you don't have any more space in the panel and I'd have to dig through dirt and concrete to pull the wire for a charger.

Another example, person in a place with strata. Posts a pic of the outlet at their parking spot, why can't I plug in my car at home, but I can at my parents place....

[AstulzerRZD]

Must be hard selling electric cars, you have to deal with a range of buyers

People who just want one, didn't do their research, might have a bad post-purchase experience with their charging install and roast you on your survey

People like me who did all our research and are going to be simple & not pain in the ass buyers but want to know the details/fee breakdowns/etc

[JDMDreams]

Well basically anyone who has their own private 120v plug can buy, it's just that if you need 240v it's more work. I'm sure 80% of EV buyers will survive with 120v, 240v is just more of a nice to have. And if you Tesla you can always just go to a super charger

[tegra7]

LOL @ 4k for a charger.

[AstulzerRZD]

bruh fml but basically any house on 100A service cannot really support Level 2 charging for an EV and be up to code lol

We just use so much gas across a couple trucks that we gonna make that back instantly lmao