Electric and Hybrid Car Thread

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

Re: Mercedes charger - which cars can use their charging network?

I saw them for the first time when I was at Buc'ees in Richmond, Kentucky. Ironically, being a massive gas station, nobody charged their vehicles there.

It's just the standard CCS DC fast charger.
I know about it cuz some friends with really slow charging cars will use their charger for 'free' parking in NYC.

https://electrek.co/2024/03/04/googl...hargers-in-us/

https://www.chargepoint.com/about/ne...etwork-north-0

[EvoFire]

So I recently realized another benefit of having a PHEV/EV. You get to use the charging parking spots. Though I sometimes wonder with an X5 if I would get the stinkeye from the ignorant.

[AstulzerRZD]

Abredeen, T&T, Minoru, Garry Point, and South Arm might be the best spots if it's available.
I didn't get any stinkeye with the Jeep.

Free charging in Richmond at Kwantlen / IKEA kinda nice.
Free charging after paid parking at a LOT of spots downtown really offsets the parking cost.

My dad gets the stinkeye at the supercharger with his F150, especially cuz non NACS cars often take up 2 spaces due to poorly positioned CCS ports.
He pulls into the end spots and into the curb now.

[AstulzerRZD]

Longest charge sessions looks like:

1) Hummer EV - 129 mins from 10-90% (even with 350kw peak)
2) Bolt EUV - 83 minutes (41kw)
3) Lucid Air GT - 80 minutes (76kw average)
4) Lexus RZ450e - 66 minutes (47kw average)

Each hour of parking near me is like $30.
Gravity charges 59c/kwh so you're paying $30 for charging on the RZ/bolt for $50 in free parking lmao

[EvoFire]

^ I just noticed your location says NYC? Was it always NYC? I thought you were in Seattle

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

^ I just noticed your location says NYC? Was it always NYC? I thought you were in Seattle

Moved almost 2 years ago.
Sold s2k to buddy in Vancouver (who just moved to NYc lmao) so I still get to drive it when I'm back

EV6/G80 EV/Kona EV are usually NYC based rentals for day trips or errands
Get work trips to Seattle/Vancouver where I usually grab a 4XE/Bolt/Model 3 from Avis cuz charging's $.5/hour at work
Bought dad a Lightning a couple weeks ago.

[jcmaz]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Abredeen, T&T, Minoru, Garry Point, and South Arm might be the best spots if it's available.
I didn't get any stinkeye with the Jeep.

Free charging in Richmond at Kwantlen / IKEA kinda nice.
Free charging after paid parking at a LOT of spots downtown really offsets the parking cost.

My dad gets the stinkeye at the supercharger with his F150, especially cuz non NACS cars often take up 2 spaces due to poorly positioned CCS ports.
He pulls into the end spots and into the curb now.

I used to park my CRZ (manual hybrid) at Richmond Ikea's eco friendly spots. Some people were definitely choked until I explained that it technically is a hybrid.

You're right about charging and pay parking. It lessens the blow of pay parking and we get to park closer to the entrance. Win win scenario

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by Koflach

The supercharger network is still the best selling feature for Tesla. Thankfully, a lot of other cars will start to have access to it soon.

This weekend, we travelled from Langley to Logan Lake and decided to take my wife's VW id4 as it has more space to bring things vs the model 3. On the way up, we stopped at the Electrify Canada (EC) station in Hope. They only have a total of 4 chargers and they were all being used when we showed up. After waiting for 5 minutes, we plugged in and walked around Hope. All in all, pretty good so far.

We decided to stop in Merritt to eat and top up before making our final run to Logan Lake. The EC station here is in the far end of a Canadian Tire parking lot. When we arrived, as before, all 4 chargers were in use. Someone walked up to us and told us that 2 of the chargers were not working though so we had a good 30 minute wait ahead of us. When we finally did get a charger, the first one we used, wasn't working so we switched to another one. Eventually we got the second one working and it wouldn't past 75-80 KW even though it showed it would do up to 350 kw.

Once we got to our destination, we plugged into the campsite at 110v for the weekend and we were at 100% when we left today.

Because of our experience in Merritt, we decided to go straight to Hope on the way home. We pulled in and had a short 10 minute wait for one of the 4 chargers. When we did plug in, the first charger we used, wasn't in service. The second one did work though and got us enough to get home.

Overall, the EA experience showed me how superior the Supercharger network is over anything else. Even when it comes to the simple handshake between the network and the car, it's just easier with the Tesla. I can't say my next EV will be a Tesla, (Elon Musk is getting insufferable with his purchase of Twitter and inserting himself in the election cycle down south), but whatever i get, it will have the NACS plug built into it.

The cabin we go to is between Logan and Kamloops. This story is exactly why I can’t do an EV, even if we only go there 2-3 times a year if that.

That isn’t the equivalent to stopping for fuel lol. I can drive a gas guzzling G37 from Abbotsford to the cabin and then back to Merrit for fuel before driving all the way back to east van

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

The cabin we go to is between Logan and Kamloops. This story is exactly why I can’t do an EV, even if we only go there 2-3 times a year if that.

That isn’t the equivalent to stopping for fuel lol. I can drive a gas guzzling G37 from Abbotsford to the cabin and then back to Merrit for fuel before driving all the way back to east van

Here's a tool I like to use: https://abetterrouteplanner.com/

Giving this a whirl for a Sun Peaks trip

Likely Scenario
1) Winter Tires
2) Freezing Temps
3) Reasonably fast charigng modern EV
4) Arrive with 50% battery

> Single charge at Tesla Merritt, 32 minutes from 37% to 94% (Lucid Pure AWD)
> Two quick charges at stations with 8 plugs, 13 minutes at Can Tire Merritt and 16 minutes at Kamloops (Ioniq 5)


Worst Case Scenario
1) Most inefficient EV (F-150 Lightning Long Range) with slow-ish fast charging
2) Freezing Temp
3) 1000lb payload
4) Winter Tires
5) Driving 30% above the speed limit at highway speed with terrible aer
6) We have the Tesla NACS adapter

If I want to arrive at Sun Peaks with 50% battery:
1) Tesla Merritt, 23 minutes from 15-60%
2) Tesla Kamloops: 41 minutes from 20-80%

[EvoFire]

It takes 85% battery to get to Merritt on the worst case? That's actually terrible isn't it?

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

It takes 85% battery to get to Merritt on the worst case? That's actually terrible isn't it?

This was really a worst case scenario:

I set ABRP to always be 30% above speed limit cuz that's how I drove to banff... on the Coquihalla this is 156kmh given 120kmh speed limit

The F150 has incredibly poor aero, it has .44 CD and 36.6sqft frontal area.
They didn't even put a cover on the spare tire below the car, 0 fucks given.
Even R1T gets .30Cd & lowers at highway for like a 32sqft frontal area.

If I set max 120kmh on all seasons at current temperature, it's a single charge at Kamloops (291km travelled, 17% battery left, 33 minute charge to 67%)
Arrives at Sun Peaks with 50% batts.

Here's some math Motor Trend did:

[underscore]

So it'll take you 15 mins of charging for every hour of driving or 25% increase in travel time?

[AstulzerRZD]

Something like that, most inefficient EV in worst possible conditions.
+60 minutes at max speed/lowest temp/winter tires
+30 minutes in reasonable conditions
If you’re down to roll into Sun Peaks with 20% charge instead of 50, it’ll be less time.

Keep in mind normal we’re paying $6 to drive the EV 100km vs the usual $32 on our 5.0 (17L/100km, Michelin LTX M/S2, 6 speed and 8 foot bed)
That’s like $100 saving on this trip or $200 saving round trip.
+ general savings around town where it's $2/100km

Even if you compare to a normal sedan at 10L/100km since it's uphill, you're saving like $90 round trip
That's a lotta steak and man cave money

[AstulzerRZD]

https://www.plugshare.com/location/215807

Whistler Lot 6 even has free charging and free parking.

Even with the most inefficient EV, it only uses 30% batts.
That's like 45 bux saved compared to driving regular car

Tofino has 8 free public chargers, 50% battery use.
70 bux saved round trip

Requires a bit of planning but if you can make it to your destination on one charge, the savings are insane.
If you do need a DC fast charge for 30-60 minute wait every 4-5 hours, you're also hella saving.

[RabidRat]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Lol check out the charging curve on our i3 (2020): it pegs itself at 50 kW from 0 to 90%.



There's a funny bottleneck in there that I haven't observed on any other EV.

[AstulzerRZD]

These are essentially the two extremes:
Highway range, most efficient and least efficient EVs

[EvoFire]

Those are all really fun facts, and it reinforces for me that in the meantime, EVs are great for around town to save some fuel. Throw in unpredictable weather, heavier loads, kids dictating your schedule, and even increasing number of EVs on the road taking up valuable infrastructure, I'm gonna keep burning dead dinosaurs for the foreseeable future for road trips.

With some major manufacturers walking back on their EV commitments (Ford, MB, and most recently Audi). I wonder if it'll push some governments to rethink the whole phasing out ICE cars.

[AstulzerRZD]

I think hybrid is the best move and even BC gov said electrified right?
Meaning hybrid and PHEV count.

EVs have a few problems:

1) the benefit is unclear, not really aware of cost or saving unless you do the math
2) a lot of current EVs suck, slow fast charging, no heat pumps, etc
3) pain in the ass to get a charger installed at older homes
4) pain in the ass to figure out public charging
3) high risk for high reward except for city driving - the more you save, the more you're also at risk of relying on public charging

I think PNW is the only place in North America I'd drive an EV.

1) Shorter driving distances
2) Cheap electricity (10c/kWh compared to like 50c in California)
3) Cheap fast charging (.21/kWh at Tesla compared to .60/kWh at ON/CA/NY supercharging)
4) Moderate temperatures - not really running AC and not really burning energy heating up the battery if you're parked outside.

[EvoFire]

Vancouver is really poised to be the best place for EVs in North America, but even then it's only ok. Not everyone is Koflach and can actually justify the EVs, most ppl buy it for the status.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

Vancouver is really poised to be the best place for EVs in North America, but even then it's only ok. Not everyone is Koflach and can actually justify the EVs, most ppl buy it for the status.

I think it's a bit different stateside for two reasons

1) The leases are INCREDIBLY cheap, like $150/mo for a model Y in Washington state. A lot of people are happy to do behaviour change when Toyota's asking like $500/mo for Corolla

1b) or if you're upside down like 30k in a car, roll it into a MB EQE or some other unpopular EV lease and start fresh

2) General interest in being kinda scrappy to save a buck or get ahead, more of a survival mode mentality than comfort mentality

[Hondaracer]

In saying you’re saving money, you’re also saying your time is worthless no?

[AstulzerRZD]

My girlfriend complaining that the charger is next to a dumpster?
Worth $500/hr

Fr I save $100 by charging 30 mins, that’s $200/hr pretax or $270 at marginal tax rate.
I’m making half of the pre-tax number

Besides, how often am I going further than Seattle, Tofino, or Whistler?
It’s a free outbound trip if the charger at destination is available

[G]

I recently jumped aboard the EV train. I work downtown 2-3 times a week and luckily the parking lot that I use has free unlimited level 2 and dc fast charge. I roughly go from 80% to 30% in a week and then charge once a week during the workday . Definitely a bonus treat given that its 0$ charging costs so far lol

[Hehe]

The math for EV is simple regardless which EV you pick for city driving.

When I went full EV the idea was that city driving within the range that a full charge can give me would account for 95% of all my driving. Then the 4.9% out-of-town driving that I do can be covered by Superchargers. Maybe a slight delay... but really not by much. Even in ICE cars I still stop to shit and eat. The only difference is that I'd plan my routes ahead. And for the 0.1% that EV might not be able to cover, I'd just rent.

But cost of operation is night and days between EV and ICE. And the difference becomes even more clear if you drive big engine cars/trucks. And for something that gets me from A to B in the city, it's actually a luxury to drive ICE.

All my friends, regardless how they do financially have all moved to EV. And even though not all of them are willing to go full EV, one thing for sure... they drive their EV whenever possible. The reason is simple... it's just so much cheaper.

A roundtrip from South Surrey to Richmond (70km) is easily $25 in gas in my buddy's G-wagon, while his Model S costs maybe $2 on hydro bill?

[68style]

Can you possibly pick a worse example of a ICE vehicle than a G-wagon tho?

I mean there's almost nothing redeeming about it besides that it's a "status symbol"... drives like shit and guzzles gas in the single digits of mpg.... zero enjoyment of a vehicle there.