Electric and Hybrid Car Thread

[Traum]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

1. We (Canada) also subsidized EV's produced here in NA with incentives between $5000-9000. Probably also offered lots of incentives for car companies to build a plant here in terms of taxes, etc. Might not be as much as China but still ... both sides have subsidized their own production of EV's.

The difference lies in the difference in size of the subsidy, which is on orders of magnitude between China and western countries. In China's case, some quick googling suggests that between 2009 - 2023, China spent ~USD $231B on the Chinese EV sector.

https://www.csis.org/blogs/trustee-c...d-yet-striking

By comparison in the US, since 2002, Tesla received the most subsidy valued at USD $2.5B, while Ford and GM were the next highest at USD $1.5B and $1.1B, respectively.

https://financialpost.com/commoditie...-in-u-s-states

For the record, Canada is giving up to Cdn $2.5B in tax credits to the Honda EV plant in Ontario. Stellantis gets up to Cdn $15B, and VW gets Cdn $13B.

So from the numbers alone, China is very roughly providing ~45x the amount of subsidy to its EV sector compared to what the US gov has provided to its top 3 EV manufacturers. Compared to Canada, China has provided ~10x more in subsidy than what Canada has committed to subsidize over the next 8 years or so.

Also, in China's case, they are handing out subsidies to companies with little to no established track record of manufacturing anything, so there ends up being a lot of scams -- ie. scamming the party for EV funding. Many smaller EV companies are unable to produce more than 10 - 20k cars (in vehicle count) in a year, effectively making them little more than boutique manufacturers. And then once the gov funding runs out, the EV company goes belly up. In US and Canada's case, the subsidies are mostly provided to established players, so that's another huge difference too.

[jaaagman]

I am still skeptical about the quality of Chinese EV's. I've heard reports of domestic EV's in China catching fire, but very little of it seems to be reported in western news outlets, so I can't really verify if this is true.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by jaaagman

I am still skeptical about the quality of Chinese EV's. I've heard reports of domestic EV's in China catching fire, but very little of it seems to be reported in western news outlets, so I can't really verify if this is true.

We'll see what comes out of the MB EQE fire in Korea
That battery was from Farasis



Bigger issue is the LFP packs Chinese firms specialize in can't charge below 0C.
Even if you leave the garage at 0, it'll charge at 20-50kW DCFC.
Below -25C, it basically won't.

[JDMDreams]

It's that American? I don't think you can get a eqs for $500 a month, if you can sign me up for a maybach

[AstulzerRZD]

Yep - loaded EQS with exec rear seating runs 500-530 a month. The AMG version runs 600-630 a month. 30% off MRSP on the EQ card is pretty standard.

Tbf, they sell more cars in California alone than Canada so I’m looking at their lease numbers and NY/MA/NJ to represent average buyer experience in North America.

[AstulzerRZD]

EQS Sedan and SUV deals on new units:

MULTIPLE 2023 EQS450 AWD SEDAN - 24 MONTHS 7500 MILES
MSRP - 119795 black black
2000 drive off - max MSD - 491 plus tax

https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/merce...als/453687/607

You can do better than $600/month on loaner units:

$500/mo: 2023 loaner EQS580 24/7.5 MSRP 137k
https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/merce...d-2/551208/768

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

EQS Sedan and SUV deals on new units:

MULTIPLE 2023 EQS450 AWD SEDAN - 24 MONTHS 7500 MILES
MSRP - 119795 black black
2000 drive off - max MSD - 491 plus tax

https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/merce...als/453687/607

You can do better than $600/month on loaner units:

$500/mo: 2023 loaner EQS580 24/7.5 MSRP 137k
https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/merce...d-2/551208/768

I get very jealous of car deals in the states, That's basically walking out with a MBEV for $800 CAD a month

[AstulzerRZD]

fwiw I think the math for normal EVs works out a little better in Canada.

NY/CA/NJ are paying 50-85c CAD per kWh of electricity while gas is like 3.50-6 a gallon.
5c/mile in a Hybrid Camry
~20c/mile in a Civic Turbo, EQS or Lightning
30c/mile in F150 or S class

BC pays 10c CAD per kWh and gas is 7.50-8 a gallon.
3c/mile in a EQS / Lightning
16c/mile in Hybrid Camry
35c/mile in Civic Turbo
53c/mile in a F150 or S Class

[EvoSpider]

Originally Posted by dark0821

You are both right, but the rule changed pretty dramatically back in June.


BC govt excluded a lot of vehicles out of "Larger vehicles" category, as of today, the only "larger vehicles" under $70,000 that gets the $4,000 are
2023 + 2024 Ford F150 Lightning standard range
2023 + 2024 Chrysler Pacifica PHEV

So yea.... pretty slim pickings, for new EVs, to get the full $9000, the list is only
2025 Hyundai Kona EV Preferred (base trim) + Trend (1 trim above base)
2025 Nissan Leaf SV (base trim) + SV Plus (1 trim above base)
2025 Kia Niro EV Wind (base trim) + Wind Plud (1 trim above base)
2024 Tesla Model 3 RWD (base trim)
2024 Fiat 500e (227km range)
2024 Nissan Ariya Engage FWD (348km range)
2024 Toyota bZ4X LE FWD
2024 Mini Cooper SE (183km range)
2024 Chevrolet Equinox FWD (513km range) damn, never knew lol
2024 VW ID.4 RWD Base RWD (332km range)
2024 Mazda MX-30 GS (161km range)

11 EVs in total, 5 of them dont even break 350KM range at 100%, and most of these want you to charge at 80% except for Tesla LFP battery which you can keep at 100%......

But Hyundai changed the packaging for the 2025 Kona Electric a few weeks ago, there's only Preferred trim now with Trend, Ultimate, and N Line Ultimate Package so you can get the full 9k. Thought you would know as hyundai rep

Originally Posted by noclue

Why don't they tariff Vinfast as well? Same low-wage communist country if they want that narrative.

That thing costs more than the Model Y, I don't think anybody is worried about it

[tegra7]

1.99% financing available for model y in Canada.

[68style]

Is that after the 100% China levy?

[tegra7]

No Teslas from China will be coming to Canada.

[dark0821]

Originally Posted by EvoSpider

But Hyundai changed the packaging for the 2025 Kona Electric a few weeks ago, there's only Preferred trim now with Trend, Ultimate, and N Line Ultimate Package so you can get the full 9k. Thought you would know as hyundai rep



That thing costs more than the Model Y, I don't think anybody is worried about it

Yes sirrr, hence why I put Preferred and Trend gets the $9000, the base Preferred still exists lolol

The Ultimate and N Line Ultimate Kona EVs are $5000 only... no BC rebate for those 2 trims....

The official Hyundai website is inaccurate... we go by the BC Go Electric website, as thats the gov that pays us the $4,000

list can be found here

https://goelectricbc.gov.bc.ca/rebat...right-for-you/

[EvoSpider]

Originally Posted by dark0821

Yes sirrr, hence why I put Preferred and Trend gets the $9000, the base Preferred still exists lolol

The Ultimate and N Line Ultimate Kona EVs are $5000 only... no BC rebate for those 2 trims....

wow that ninja edit

I think you misread what I said:

[dark0821]

Originally Posted by EvoSpider

wow that ninja edit

I think you misread what I said:

Oh whao, I stand corrected, damn... no communication what so ever, literally was on website Monday and it was still
- Preferred and Ultimate under trims...
- Trend Package buried under Preferred trim
- N-line buried under Ultimate trim

Dammmnnnn, manager has been made aware, they are getting people to email BC CEV gov bodies to confirm, we already sold a few 2025 Ultimates with no BC CEV rebate attached. I guess sucks for them, don't think they can claw back the $4,000 now....

[JDMDreams]

Aren't all the current 3 y from China already

[dark0821]

^ yes sir, i believe the tariff will apply to new incoming units only, so Elon will switch to Fremont before the tariff kicks in...

[68style]

Well, no, Elon is too busy posting shit on Twitter in between ketamine injections... a manager at Tesla will make this switch

[JDMDreams]

How would they know made in China, get best China man to make, ship to California, get fat American to install wheels, assembled in America, ??? Profit

[sonick]

Tesla clearing out China made Model Y with 1.99% APR financing

https://forums.redflagdeals.com/tesl...lable-2711482/

Sounds like tariffs are applied at time of registration not time if import according to posts on RFD

[Traum]

As a move to clear out all of its existing Shanghai-made MY, a 1.99% APR financing seems pretty weak to me.

[insomniac]

are the current model 3's made in China as well?

[JDMDreams]

Yes

[TypeRNammer]

Originally Posted by tegra7

1.99% financing available for model y in Canada.

On top of that, supposedly the base China Model Y RWD comes with the 13 speaker with sub premium sound system compared to the base 7 speakers.

This is what I've read according to RFD and Reddit with the most recent deliveries

Once the China Model Y base is depleted, it's going to revert back to the Fremont Model Y which will be equipped with the correct base 7 speakers system

[JDMDreams]

Suspiciously I've been seeing a lot of equinox evs and more hummers lately? I guess people are buying those for some reason? The new vinfast is sitting on the lot in New West but I haven't seen any in the wild yet.