Electric and Hybrid Car Thread

[Badhobz]

thats so weird. honestly, the software in my hitlerbox is fine. i haven't had any issues with it.

I don't get why they want to reinvite the damn wheel (typical German attitude) and create their own software company which proceeded to lose 12 billion dollars so far and still can't get a decent product out.

[tegra7]

Doesn't seem like they've improved anything. Its slow, 231mile range, slow charging, and shitty software. The hype is based off the look.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/n...20they%20offer.

[radeonboy]

I was playing around with the ID Buzz configurator yesterday. $88k for a First Edition AWD before taxes....

Pricing is not far off from a loaded EV9 in the 3-row 'mainstream' people mover segment, and I can see some buyers paying an extra premium for the unique styling. But I can't imagine there are too many customers in that segment, knowing that these will also depreciate worse than luxury cars.

I'm hoping there'll be a lower trim level that starts closer to $65k, in the area where the Siennas / Odysseys max out in pricing.

[bcedhk]

I think those looking at cars above 65k do not care as much about price but more about availability and specs.

I can see this are holding value much better than a fully spec'd Model Y or EV9 and I would totally purchase one if stealerships keep it at MSRP.

But I think the id buzz will fail similar to the ioniq 5. they overhyped the product and took way too long. Most of the buyers probably already switched to Rivian and Tesla by now.

[AstulzerRZD]

Ioniq 5 failing to sell is news to me, I really think they have momentum.

Segment: Rivian is also perceived as too expensive and large for most people; it's a much older and wealthier audience (think Aspen and Hamptons)

Momentum:
- Ioniq 5 reached 40% of Model Y volume in Q3 2024 stateside.
- All the photos Ioniq powering houses during hurricane I'm sure will help sales.
- In the new year, Ioniq 5 pricing will drop 3750, it'll get Tesla port and supercharging access in Jan.

Tesla Headwinds
Technical
- Model Y charges a bit too slow for US road tripping (Ioniq charges 2X faster).
- Model Y refresh will be a lot more mild than Model 3 since the acoustic glass/suspension refresh is already in
Image
- Gen Zers are also catching onto Tesla regen by default not being very smooth + suspension being bumpy in their ubers, even the white chicks are complaining on TikTok.
- Best case scenario, you look like a OC suburb fuckboi or you went to Rutgers in NJ and driving your dads car
- Medium case scenario, your uber just arrived (this is like Camry SE image).
- Worst case scenario, you're a trump supporter because of Elon politics. IMO worse than being religious or smoking in Silicon Valley

YouTube

YouTube

[yray]

because they are hard to get so people are like

[GLOW]

the battery protection plates that don't protect but write off the vehicle though.

[AstulzerRZD]

you wanna see something crazy?

60k CAD replacement price is legitimately $6300 US, same part number
6300 US: https://www.hyundaipartsdeal.com/gen...-gi351-rm.html
50k CAD: https://www.hamiltonhyundaipartscana...bly-37501gi351

[JDMDreams]

I was sitting in a Niro EV, for an Uber and you could tell the interior is pretty low rent. Lots of plastics, cloth. You sit pretty high up too due to the battery? But definitely you can tell it's an economy car.

[AstulzerRZD]

only uber drivers and lower middle class late 20s or mid 50s people buy niros

[radeonboy]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

only uber drivers and lower middle class late 20s or mid 50s people buy niros

Can confirm based on my time as a Soul EV owner. I loved the car though and it didn't feel like driving a penalty box.

[yray]

I saw a soul flip over on the McGill on ramp to second narrows

it's a fucking solid box

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by yray

because they are hard to get so people are like

Are Ioniq 5s still hard to get? I see so many in stock on websites!

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Ioniq 5 failing to sell is news to me, I really think they have momentum.

Segment: Rivian is also perceived as too expensive and large for most people; it's a much older and wealthier audience (think Aspen and Hamptons)

Momentum:
- Ioniq 5 reached 40% of Model Y volume in Q3 2024 stateside.
- All the photos Ioniq powering houses during hurricane I'm sure will help sales.
- In the new year, Ioniq 5 pricing will drop 3750, it'll get Tesla port and supercharging access in Jan.

Tesla Headwinds
Technical
- Model Y charges a bit too slow for US road tripping (Ioniq charges 2X faster).
- Model Y refresh will be a lot more mild than Model 3 since the acoustic glass/suspension refresh is already in
Image
- Gen Zers are also catching onto Tesla regen by default not being very smooth + suspension being bumpy in their ubers, even the white chicks are complaining on TikTok.
- Best case scenario, you look like a OC suburb fuckboi or you went to Rutgers in NJ and driving your dads car
- Medium case scenario, your uber just arrived (this is like Camry SE image).
- Worst case scenario, you're a trump supporter because of Elon politics.

The main problem with Hyundai... or any other EV company for that matter is the lack of overall planning to shift toward EV.

800V architecture for that 350kw charging speed sounds great on paper. But 350kw chargers that works reliably is hard to come by. More often than not... they are charging at sub 200kw if lucky.

Many manufacturers are still in that ICE car mentality where "I'd build the car, the rest is on you" ideology is still dominant.

This mentality is what's slowing them down.

That's why here in NA EV scene, it's Tesla vs. others.

If you look at hyper-competitive EV market in China... it's whole other story and it kinda give you a sense what's coming our way.

It has gone so far that it makes more sense to get EV as your next car in China than an ICE, all within a span of 5yrs or so.

But other than Tesla, there is no other non-Chinese brand within the top 10 chart. It's not that they didn't want to. But there is no way they can compete.

[Badhobz]

I don’t think it’s just the mentality. I’m pretty sure it’s because their production models are completely based off suppliers.

The traditional automakers aren’t agile like tesla or rivian or lucid. By the time they make a request for some component, let the suppliers bid on the price, test it, and incorporate it into a new build, it’s already outdated. That’s why EVs from most traditional automakers suck.

These little start ups aren’t bound by these restrictions so it’s much easier to test , build, test, build new stuff. And Tesla is vertically integrated so it’s even easier to control their production.

[AstulzerRZD]

Although there's pros and cons, I think we are starting the see convergence.

Tesla:
- Great app
- Stupid shit like window trim, paint, and steering wheels go bad within 2 years in US climate
- Starting to learn mature automaker stuff like sound proofing

VW / MB:
- Can't build an app to save a life or their economy
- Gets the standard car stuff right
- Starting to beat Tesla at their own game with autonomy

GM / Ford:
- Low key killing it software and self driving wise; Ford's app is now really fucking good
- GM's 800V batteries are monster chargers
- Both are getting flexible with mid-year improvements that ship as soon as ready (Supercharging access, BlueCruise updates, improved charging curve, etc)

[68style]

I'm excited to see the tone of the posts on the Tesla owners groups on FB change from "My car got a scrape on the bumper... how should I handle this because it's SO SPECIAL?" to being a bunch of basic bitches driving Corollas of the electric world lol

[JDMDreams]

^^ Corolla of the electric world is the best, #1 selling most support. Your legacy makers can only wish they have the demand and reliability of electric Corollas, let alone too chicken to let da Chinese into the market.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by Hehe

800V architecture for that 350kw charging speed sounds great on paper. But 350kw chargers that works reliably is hard to come by. More often than not... they are charging at sub 200kw if lucky.

This mentality is what's slowing them down.

That's why here in NA EV scene, it's Tesla vs. others.

It has gone so far that it makes more sense to get EV as your next car in China than an ICE, all within a span of 5yrs or so.

But other than Tesla, there is no other non-Chinese brand within the top 10 chart. It's not that they didn't want to. But there is no way they can compete.

Let's break it down - Vancouver's EV scene + pricing + infra is a solid 5 years behind the states; but entire Canada market moves less volume than Cali so it makes sense.

On Charging
Issue in SoCal is not enough chargers + mad lineups at EA; they gave out free charging to a lot of brands.

On 350kW chargers, this is the standard rollout with Electrify America now.
Infrastructure bill is also means all 150kWs going to become 350kW in next year or so.
Many gas stations have both superchargers and EA on the same lot.

From Boston to DC, you have them every 10 minutes on the highway.
& every single one I tried did deliver 230kW for me in an EV6.
I now even have 500kW fast charging in Times Square.

On Pricing
US leases with state and federal subsidy makes a lot of these 300/mo of less, even a 13 month lease on Ioniq 5.

China's registration fees and plating for EVs is way easier, NY is also moving this way with no new TLC uber plates for non EVs and I fully expect congestion charge will make EVs exempt.

I expect in the next 2 years, it will be EV for at least 50% of buyer in US; they already outpace hybrid deliveries.
Canada's MRSP pricing and incomes are worse so will take a hot minute.

On unique US Market dynamics
Yes, Tesla's app, home charger, and supercharging is still best.

But in the US, politics, image, and aversion to trying new brands is so real for consumer goods (I used to work on Windows Phone team, we have a ton of market research differentiating China/EU markets where we sold well vs. North America). I cannot emphasize enough how much EV buyers want to avoid looking like Trump supporters and/or uncle from Edison NJ.

Also unique to US, electrical grid is less resilient in some states and electrical costs can be in the low-mid 4 figures; GM/Hyundai aren't just selling a car, they're selling a battery backup for house/solar and saving you hundreds by storing cheap off peak electricity.

Tesla sales are now flat at 166k in Q3 with Cybertruck production now outpacing demand (20k price drop!). I expect them to stay at around 150k.

GM's now at 44k incl. the Honda Prologue; Silverado/Sierra still ramping. I fully expect GM will 20-30% market share, 100k+ units and rival Tesla in the year 2 years with their combo of fast charging, great experience, hands free highway driving, and form factor.