Electric and Hybrid Car Thread

[JDMDreams]

Just bring the delica, Pajero and s660 here

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

My next bets:

Nissan's ePower will get scaled up and power next Odyssey, Pilot, and MDX.
Next CRV offers gas, hybrid, and electric options.
Next GTR and Lancer Evo will probably share an EV platform.
Honda are first to market with solid state battery … in NSX or MDX.
All 3 continue to not have a competitive high margin luxury brand.

Software wise, Honda learns from GM and adopts Android automotive.
A tech exec from a North American subsidiary gets tapped to fix software.
They hire Kyle Vogt to lead Japanese self driving.

All of this will take too long but Japanese gov will bail them out.
https://x.com/business/status/1869071799431856274

I'm not optimistic about this at all. None of the major mergers in the last decade has turned out well.

Honda and Nissan compete in almost every segment, trading blows but Honda is mostly on top in terms of comparisons.

They both own lagging luxury marques that are not doing well, though I'd say Honda has the better offerings.

Honda has a failed halo car that's out of production, Nissan has a halo car that's been in production for 16 years. I'd call that a wash.

Neither has an amazing lineup of engines.
Honda's drivetrain is greater than the sum of it's parts imo. Their hybrid setup in the Civic is very well received. But they don't have any EV tech of their own.

This might be the reason why I think Honda is doing this, they are trying to get their hands on Nissan's EV tech to jumpstart their own. But Nissan's system imo is not great. The Leaf is old technology, the Ariya hasn't been well received. I do think Honda has the ability to make it better, but it comes with baggage that is the rest of Nissan and Mitsubishi.

[AstulzerRZD]

IMO they’re doing this cuz Nissan’s cooked and Japanese gov told Honda to fix it for the sake of the country … or else.

I don’t think they’re gonna come out of this healthy

[JDMDreams]

The new Armada seems to be decent

[EvoFire]

The Armada is such a small part of the Nissan portfolio it really doesn't matter, it's a losing segment for Nissan as there's almost no way for Nissan to beat Toyota based on reputation.

It's also not beating the Americans in this big SUV game in North America.

It's not lux enough to bring the challenge to the G wagons and GLS of the world.

That leaves it's niche market in the Middle East and Australia as the Nissan Patrol.

[AstulzerRZD]

It sells really well in the suburbs of Houston: 3-5M homes where the owners want to feel special/unique by owning a QX instead of Yukon Denali/Tahoe High Country.

[Manic!]

https://www.shm-afeela.com/en/

Remember Honda and Sony are working on a car that will be sold in 2026 in the US.
Sony/Gran Turismo did the graphics on the Nissan GTR.

mitsubishi partnered with Honda and Nissan to build EV's

https://global.honda/en/newsroom/new...40801beng.html

Nissan Motor Co., Ltd., Honda Motor Co., Ltd. and Mitsubishi Motors Corporation announced today that the three companies have signed a memorandum of understanding to jointly discuss a framework for further intelligence and electrification of automobiles based on the agreement signed by Nissan and Honda on March 15.

This could be like Voltron. Multiple Japanese companies working together to make a super company.

[AstulzerRZD]

I do think Honda/Nissan/Mitsu tie up has more promise than Stellantis actually restructuring.

I don’t think they have a real shot if they’re gonna continue management style where EU does the app, NA does the infotainment, and Japan does the car.

Need someone with some real balls to cut through JDM politeness, government influence, and bring everyone tgt to make this work.

[radeonboy]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

The Armada is such a small part of the Nissan portfolio it really doesn't matter, it's a losing segment for Nissan as there's almost no way for Nissan to beat Toyota based on reputation.

It's also not beating the Americans in this big SUV game in North America.

It's not lux enough to bring the challenge to the G wagons and GLS of the world.

That leaves it's niche market in the Middle East and Australia as the Nissan Patrol.

Those last-gen Armadas are great used buys as the LC200 alternative with the pedigree to match. The new one looks great and would make a nice understated wealth vehicle that we can actually get here.

Going back to topic on Hybrids / EVs, I'm starting to see more Lucid Airs on the road. Has anyone here test driven one? All the reviewers I watch gush about how well they drive.

[AstulzerRZD]

Lives up to the hype; I like it more than Taycan.
First moment u sit down, seats and cabin feels like JAL international first class.
First moment u go around a corner, feels like E39.
IMO this is what EQS/Jaguar should’ve launched

Drawbacks?

Although it charges 2X faster than Model S (200kw avg) it’s terribly slow at Tesla superchargers (50kw avg); cuz superchargers are low voltage.

Driver assists are not on the same level as EQS (now eyes off up to 100kmh), Supercruise/Blue cruise hands free, or FSD highway (city is terrible!)

[EvoFire]

^ I don't trust self driving tech quite just yet. I'm in the software testing space and I just have zero faith in things rolling out without bugs.

I do however think once we are done with the X5, EV should have enough range and charging coverage for us to swap to a full EV. Considering how well the Lucid Air reviews, I'm excited to see how their SUV stacks up.

[Dbone]

Totally agree. I'd trust it on a freeway maybe, but not secondary/city/side streets.

[radeonboy]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

I do however think once we are done with the X5, EV should have enough range and charging coverage for us to swap to a full EV. Considering how well the Lucid Air reviews, I'm excited to see how their SUV stacks up.

I'm really hoping for Lucid's success after watching all the Gravity content put out by Out of Spec / Savage Geese so far. I'm not the right demo for the car (too $$$), but their razor focus on driving dynamics, packaging, and energy consumption are all attributes to be excited about. I think they can realize commercial success if they can apply the same formula to a Model 3 / Y sized car.

[68style]

Lord knows why Lucid started off with a completely dead category of vehicle (large sedan segment).

Armada looks great until you see the second trim up is fucking $100,000 after taxes and fees lol... nm the TTV6 engine isn't exactly known for reliability in the Q50/60

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

^ I don't trust self driving tech quite just yet. I'm in the software testing space and I just have zero faith in things rolling out without bugs.

I do however think once we are done with the X5, EV should have enough range and charging coverage for us to swap to a full EV. Considering how well the Lucid Air reviews, I'm excited to see how their SUV stacks up.

IMO BMW’s latest hands free highway assistant is crazy good.
Super consistent and great with lane changes.

MB also good but I trust it less because it’s visualizations of cars in lanes is not as good.

Ford BlueCruise is very capable but inconsistent with whether u can be hands free.

Heard FSD highway stack is good but I haven’t tried.

Supercruise is a fat L and Rivian/Lucid/Hyundai all have work to do.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

This might be the reason why I think Honda is doing this, they are trying to get their hands on Nissan's EV tech to jumpstart their own. But Nissan's system imo is not great. The Leaf is old technology, the Ariya hasn't been well received. I do think Honda has the ability to make it better, but it comes with baggage that is the rest of Nissan and Mitsubishi.

It's very obvious that the only sensible reason for Honda to help Nissan is bcos of Nissan's EV tech. And while I agree the 2 generations of Leaf are yesterday's technology at this point, is the Ariya that bad from and EV tech's POV?

We certainly don't have a lot of them in Vancouver, but my friend has one for over a year now, and he has been very happy with it. Googling suggests there have been a few recalls with inverters, and some sort of power issue that would cause the car to shut down, but at least they have been addressed. The biggest complains seem to some extremely poor dealership support, where the dealerships / techs have no clue on how to fix anything on the car if something goes wrong.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by Dbone

Totally agree. I'd trust it on a freeway maybe, but not secondary/city/side streets.

FSD city (even latest version) is just begging to put itself/someone else life in danger in the city.

IMO SF is worse than NYC driving and Waymo got it right.
They’re even testing Tokyo now

[radeonboy]

Originally Posted by 68style

Lord knows why Lucid started off with a completely dead category of vehicle (large sedan segment).

I think SavageGeese's video covers this, and if IIRC, it was because:

• Developing new tech is expensive
• Lucid needed halo car to absorb some of that R&D cost
• The sedan form factor is more effective at conveying the USP of Lucid as a brand (packaging, driving dynamics, powertrain efficiency)
• SUV buyers are less tolerant at issues than the early adopters/believers of Lucid, so a sedan is a less risky form to start with
• The factory needed to go online alongside the first car at the same time

Given that context, SUV is the wrong form factor, and having a sedan allows Lucid to scale as they also try to get manufacturing online at the same time with some wiggle room. I'm sure there's a bit of symbolism as well with Peter Rawlinson being the former chief engineer of the Model S.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by Traum

It's very obvious that the only sensible reason for Honda to help Nissan is bcos of Nissan's EV tech. And while I agree the 2 generations of Leaf are yesterday's technology at this point, is the Ariya that bad from and EV tech's POV?

We certainly don't have a lot of them in Vancouver, but my friend has one for over a year now, and he has been very happy with it. Googling suggests there have been a few recalls with inverters, and some sort of power issue that would cause the car to shut down, but at least they have been addressed. The biggest complains seem to some extremely poor dealership support, where the dealerships / techs have no clue on how to fix anything on the car if something goes wrong.

Ariya’s like using a Sony Walkman slider when iPhone 7 exists.

Midsize SUV tier list using 2010s cell phone analogies:

S tier:
Macan/Q6 - iPhone 7+? Google Pixel? All round banger.
We didn’t know we needed portrait mode or AI photos until these dropped.

A tier:
Model Y - iPhone 6. great UX but just ok EV. Siri still sucks.
Ioniq/EV6/GV70/80 - Galaxy S6, clunky UX but dope EV.
BMW iX / Rivian R1S - iPhone X, you know the market’s headed here but FaceID and battery stuff needs more cooking.

B tier:
Mustang Mach E - Nokia Lumia 1020. Niche enthusiast choice, fun, awesome app handles all chargers, supports plug and charge, batteries and bluecruise work good.

Chevy Equinox/Blazer/Cadillac Lyriq - OnePlus; amazing value and all round package but kinda meh the deeper you dig into it.

D tier:
Q4 etron ~ ID4 ~ Ariya - Sony slider phone with WiFi;
I guess they work but they are yesterday’s cars.
Try using trip planner to find chargers and precondition battery on a road trip back from Whistler departing with 40%, trigger cabin warmup/cooling on ski hill from the app, DC fast charging - slow and you need like 5 apps. ID4 app is completely broken.

F tier:
BZ4x/RZ/Solterra - BlackBerry Storm.
Burn it with fire. Terrible range, terrible charging (30kw DCFC).

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

I'm not optimistic about this at all. None of the major mergers in the last decade has turned out well.

The sleeper ‘merger’ here is GM.

Their compact SUVs are solid and sell hotcakes.
2nd gen Trac/Trailblazer/Envista get great reviews.
Daewoo/SAIC designed them.

Equinox EV/Lyriq pretty solid.
SAIC did the packaging and cost engineering.
They’re pivoting in the next year away from ultium battery to fix charging.

CT5V drives like an E39.
GM Australia/Holden did the platform.

GM’s Ls right now?
Actually their V8 pickup valve trains and supercruise.

In general I see a brand portfolio with lots of appealing options
Leaning on partner teams’ speciality & taking tech seriously
& can change course/fix mistakes very quickly

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Ariya’s like using a Sony Walkman slider when iPhone 7 exists.

Midsize SUV tier list using 2010s cell phone analogies:

I should make this a YouTube video lol

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

I should make this a YouTube video lol

Please don't, it was confusing enough reading it.

[JDMDreams]

They need to make Japan great again

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

FSD city (even latest version) is just begging to put itself/someone else life in danger in the city.

IMO SF is worse than NYC driving and Waymo got it right.
They’re even testing Tokyo now

Nah... I just got V13... and it's almost like driving with a neural link connected to my mind. It does exactly how I think in my mind of what I'd do given any situation. Now that it does reverse as well, I can activate as soon as I sit into my car and buckled myself in and it'd do everything by itself.

Granted, I'm not a perfect driver by any mean, but if it does exactly how I drive and I have been accident-free for 23yrs, I figured it should be at least better than RMD C-lais. And if I had the option, I'd much prefer to have tons of me driving than C-lais.

[Badhobz]

Yes. Compared to Richmond retards I rather take the FSD