Electric and Hybrid Car Thread

[Qmx323]

Sheesh, if the above holds true in real world testing... VAG is about go to the moon

[AstulzerRZD]

VAG always exceeds range estimate & now they have Rivian software.

Big question left is what they're going to do about their manufacturing, unit economics, supply chain, etc.

[AstulzerRZD]

WTF is this WALL of a dashboard

[RabidRat]

^ what is that?

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

https://x.com/abev96/status/1900238383391117514

69k for 440 miles or 700km of real world range is insane.
10-80% charging in 21 minutes also gives a ton of buffer for cold/bad weather.

It could charge 60% slower and still beat a Model 3.

Yeah but that's 69k USD, which is Lucid Air money? :/

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by RabidRat

^ what is that?



Yeah but that's 69k USD, which is Lucid Air money? :/

New CLA EV.

and yeah, the A6 ETron is Lucid Air money

Since it's an Audi it's going to lease way worse than the Lucid

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

WTF is this WALL of a dashboard

I don't mind the design if it's not too high

The camera looks to be at chest level, so at actual eye level it should be fine. What I have a problem is with how shiny everything is, material choice is poor. That center console needs some sort of less reflective material/finish instead of that satin metal paint on plastic. Anything that's not screen needs to be matte or leather wrapped.

[AstulzerRZD]

Yep, even the EQE/EQS are quite cheap inside with the current generation.
C class I swear is worse than Toyota at this point.. see this one:





The only justification for such an upright dashboard is if they expect "drivers" to be browsing the web and using the main screen as a tablet while the Drive Pilot is on.

[radeonboy]

I haven't been inside Mercedes-Benz cars for a while now, but are there any redeeming qualities elsewhere to make up for their subpar interior build quality?

That said, there's no amount of enshittification with Mercedes-Benz products to stop some from buying their cars. One of my mom's auntie friends went through 2 problematic EQCs in the last few years, only to appear in an EQS this CNY. "Mercedes-Benz or nothing!" is her motto when it comes to cars, despite rolling around in a service loaner A class regularly.

[AstulzerRZD]

Ok I forgive Mercedes, 450 mile EPA range for ~50-55k is crazy.
They also switched to 800V

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by radeonboy

I haven't been inside Mercedes-Benz cars for a while now, but are there any redeeming qualities elsewhere to make up for their subpar interior build quality?

I think they have something unique to offer performance and luxury buyers.
They’re also pretty future minded.

I find last gen 43/63 cars more entertaining than their M counterparts. Upcoming 63 cars will have a flat plane crank V8.

For luxury buyers, I think the style is more opulent than BMW/Audi which can look like German Camry.
Yes MB interior got cheaper but 1998-2015 MB interior also really sucked.

Lastly their decade long focus on hands/eyes off self driving, simple EV charging, hyper screen web browsing means they're already working on where the industry will be in 5 years… thus they will survive.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

I think they have something unique to offer performance and luxury buyers.
They’re also pretty future minded.

For enthusiasts I think they can be more entertaining than their BMW counterparts.
I prefer last gen 43 and 63 cars to their M counterparts.
Upcoming 63 cars will have a flat plane crank V8.

For luxury buyers, I think the style is more opulent than BMW/Audi which can look like German Camry. Their EVs lease, charge, and are very comfortable Their PHEVs are one of two on the market that fast charge; allowing you to top up super quickly and use it much more like an EV.

Lastly I think their overall thinking on hands and eyes off self driving, end to end EV charging with plug and charge payment, and use of the hyper screen for web browsing means they have enough of a handle on where the industry will be in 5 years… thus they will survive.

I agree with this the slag against BMW. Despite owning multiple BMWs, BMW interiors are very boring. Functional but boring. The best they have is in the i3 and iX but that's just two off shoot cars and none of their mainstream cars are anywhere close.

[AstulzerRZD]

If you thought BMW/Porsche sandbag with their turbo motor HP..... Mercedes is sandbagging even harder with their EVs.
The stats on this CLA means their future SUVs can be driven like gas car.

Range
500 miles of range on the CLA means you'll get 300 miles going 80mph, uphill, in the cold, in their future EV SUV.
They even added a transmission to improve highway efficiency.

Charging:

MB 320kw peak means even if you plug in at 50% or in the cold without preconditioning, you still average 150–200kW.
20-minutes in worst case will get you 60kw or 60%, 180 winter highway miles in their future SUV.

Compare to Tesla whose 250kw peak means 100kW average in warm conditions, 70kW at 50% charge, and only 50kW in the cold.
20-minute charge would only get you 17kw or 25%, roughly 50 winter highway miles in a Model Y.

[EvoFire]

Or you know buy a dumb PHEV like I did and get max 3.3kw/h charging

Not an issue on most days, but some times I wish I could top it up to full in an hour. It's 24kwh for god's sake.

[AstulzerRZD]

Yeah and it's not just about the speed but also having more stations you could use if you had DC Fast Charging.
Walmart/Save On/Superstore/T&T in Richmond and Vancouver are all DC only.

DCFC on GLE450e and S580e is supposed to do 20-80% in half an hour.
I did hear they were pretty problematic tho.

[EvoFire]

My mom tried to get me to buy the GLE450e instead of an X5, she's a MB fan. I couldn't do it, even with it available in green, it's just so derpy looking.

[yray]

isn't the cla now based on byd architecture like the smart cars now?

We recently got a eqe suv and it sucks balls. Saving grace was 0% lease and 10k off. Drive it for 4 years and see what the future brings.

I can never get the battery to warm up to 100+kwh fast charge. Supposedly, we are able to use tesla superchargers now but only a few people got the nacs adapter from merc but if the battery can't prep to accept 150 kwh, what's the point.

[Gumby]

Assuming you have access to a charger at home, how often do you guys actually fast charge in public though?

[radeonboy]

Originally Posted by Gumby

Assuming you have access to a charger at home, how often do you guys actually fast charge in public though?

I drive ~ 40km daily and charging via garage 110v is enough to gain my range back overnight. My PHEV range meter is pretty accurate and shows 60km range in the summer and ~45 when below 0 degrees.

My current car cannot fast charge, but EVs I had that can DCFC didn't make a difference for me since I don't drive far. I'm all for PHEVs supporting DCFC so seeing support from GLE / RR is a good start.

[RabidRat]

Originally Posted by Gumby

Assuming you have access to a charger at home, how often do you guys actually fast charge in public though?

Yeah with a charger at home, DC fast charging is only really for road trips for us.

You know what's really interesting though, is the new 22kW AC charging that the refreshed Toyota bz4x is supposed to have. That's equivalent to ~40km / 20 minutes of charging.

At that point, plugging in to an L2 charger while you're parked to run some errands, is enough to get you back your whole day's use of range. And L2 chargers are everywhere.

That to me is way more interesting for the typical use case.

Of course, most charging stations currently out there are 7.2 kW at best, but when those age out I hope they rewire and install 22s!

[AstulzerRZD]

The 22kw is for European 3 phase power
The eTransit / older Lightnings / maybe GM trucks support 19.2kw tho

[RabidRat]

Oh sad.

Ok then let's switch NA over to 3-phase power!!

[whitev70r]

I think with all the EV's advertising longest range eg. 700 kms is not really that big of a deal, functionally. Even if you had a ICE engine, would you ever drive 700 kms without taking a break? Take a break at 200-250, get a charge, keep driving, unless your destination is like 1000 kms away, you should make it. I wonder if 500 kms range is more than sufficient even for trips.

For daily use, most EV's should replenish the day's commute/grocery getting/soccer use (or more) overnight on a home based level 2 charger.

[yray]

Originally Posted by Gumby

Assuming you have access to a charger at home, how often do you guys actually fast charge in public though?

I usually drive it down to 10-15% and DCFC it to ~80%. After 80% the battery can only take 30-40kwh so no point in DCFC.

80-15 usually means 1 week of driving. 250-300km

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

I think with all the EV's advertising longest range eg. 700 kms is not really that big of a deal, functionally. Even if you had a ICE engine, would you ever drive 700 kms without taking a break? Take a break at 200-250, get a charge, keep driving, unless your destination is like 1000 kms away, you should make it. I wonder if 500 kms range is more than sufficient even for trips.

For daily use, most EV's should replenish the day's commute/grocery getting/soccer use (or more) overnight on a home based level 2 charger.

I agree with you if it were just adults. Once you add in little kids the whole plan gets thrown out the window. 700km range will allow us to probably skip charger for 1 or even 2 stops if circumstances call for it.

They want/need to stop somewhere where there's no charging or the chargers are all taken.
You may not be able to stop where there are chargers.

At the end of the day, a 5min fuel stop in the middle of nowhere is still a lot easier than having to plug in for 20mins. The benefit of the 5 min stop is it's short enough that they can stay strapped in, and if they do need to get out, in the middle of nowhere there's nothing for them to be distracted with and will get back in the car.

I will give you my use case is very specific. And we will likely grow out of the use case in about 3 years.

[AstulzerRZD]

7-800 is a big deal cuz it means you’ll get 500 in worst case scenarios - when its cold/uphill/winter tires/headwind/highway speed/etc.

7-800 is also just for the sedan, meaning the SUV variant will get 600 estimated range and 4-500 in worst case