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From my time in product planning for an OEM that just replaced its CEO,
Chinese EV can't meet buyers needs for a variety of reason & re-engineering cost is significant.
The result of them launching is commercial failure worse than BZ4x.
The product will be seen as the equivalent of Mitsubishi Mirage/Nissan Versa... except at the price of a Camry Hybrid.
The tariff just buy some time for North American OEM to build out their supply chain & recoup investment cost.
I really think Ford, GM, Toyota next-gen, MB, BMW, and VW w/ Rivian are going to offer much better products than China in 5 years.
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- North American buyers intensely brand sensitive
- Budget buyers rely on leasing/financing, Chinese EV got terrible residual, crazy insurance cost, and awful leasing in EU
- High end buyer will keep churning $400/mo MB and BMW leases
- Chinese EV battery tech largely blows and won't charge in the cold, especially current gen BYD blade
- Chinese EV not gonna pass American crash test, which require significantly different airbag/crash structure design
Budget buyers who would buy this kind of thing often art in a credit or knowledge position to own a Chinese EV.
Purchase journey looks more like going to different dealers until they get approved for credit and driving a dodge hornet or a Nissan kicks.
The size of cash buyers who are in a knowledge space and credit/cash space to buy a Chinese EV are today’s equivalent of the diesel manual brown station wagon crowd.
You ever hear how Koreans would never buy KIA/Hyundai? I'm guessing it's the same thing here LOL
I had Korean friends like that, 20 yrs ago when the Hyundai Pony came out but now, they own Elantras ... I think they can be proud of how Kia and Hyundai have become. Korean cars did well. Ioniq is like one of the top sought after EV, looks decent.
You ever hear how Koreans would never buy KIA/Hyundai? I'm guessing it's the same thing here LOL
Chinese EVs can solve engineering issues within ~5 years, but that’s the same window North American (NA) automakers need to refine their software/charging.
1) Brand & distribution power is a 20 year long game: Honda Prologue is instantly 3rd best selling and it doesn't even have lane keep assist.
2) N/A tests cut Chinese EV range ~30–40%. Chinese LFP batteries already charge slow as fuck! even worse in cold weather. Their latest breed and lag behind Porsche/Hyundai tech from 2021.
3) They will end up more expensive to lease/own than Western equivalents with far worse servicing. Budget buyer will need to have dependable repair.
4) North American crash test double or triple structural load for front/side crash compared to EuroNCAP. XiaoMi SU7 ultra doesn't even have real brakes lol.
IMO is impossible to meet these requirement
It's more likely to see Chinese Robotaxi than mainstream Chinese EV
- Business: Be commercially viable in 10 years when Waymo is everywhere
- Distribution: Better brand, warranty, service, charging speed than Hyundai
- Price: Less than 150/mo lease or less than 21k MRSP
- 2 years of free charging, plug and charge integration with Tesla/Electrify America/EvGo
- Comparable or better IIHS crest test result
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1) New, Ioniq 5 is $247 a month lease; Chevy Blazer is $165, Both EQB and iX offer 2 years fast charging at $289 or $592 a month BEFORE any state incentives.
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We already know Chinese EV lease way worse than VW in the EU
2) Used, Chinese EV has to be better than hood special / Surrey special Tesla
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There's 213 MY 2021+ (with heat pump) Model 3 under 21k, clean title, no accidents, with 40k or more miles left on battery warranty
3) Gotta offer better than Hyunda/Kia 10 year warranty
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MG is offering 7 years in EU
4) Gotta charge better than Ioniq 5 (which is 2X faster than Tesla/BYD seal from 10-80%)
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MG MG4 standard takes 2X as long to charge as Tesla, 4X as long as Ioniq in the WARM. In the cold? 3-8X longer
5) Gotta offer similar sales/service in core market (North East, Texas, SoCal)
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Good luck lmao
6) A lot of these OEM are blowing out EVs for the emissions credits... newcomer EV brand has no G63 or Escalade that they're building these to offset.
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FFS even Chrysler is building RE-EV / PHEV / EV now, there will soon be no market for these credits.
7) Chinese already tried with Volvo/Polestar; I'd consider both a commercial failure
They are making 1980 of these price will be just under 400k when converted to cad. First production car with hub motors. 2 in the rear making over 500 HP. Not going to be sold here.
They are making 1980 of these price will be just under 400k when converted to cad. First production car with hub motors. 2 in the rear making over 500 HP. Not going to be sold here.
This is one car I wish they had an online confiscator for. I could see some sick color combo's.
Hmm. Hub motors, interesting choice.
Comment from the C&D article:
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Wolf359 - 13 December, 2024
While Nissan is going down the drain, maybe it could leverage its dealership network and bring from abroad such interesting products from its partner Renault?
Yes!!
__________________ Geriatric Motoring Club Member #37
G Wagon and Rivian also got hub motors ... turns out tuning torque vectoring with hub motors is actually fairly difficult.
IMO Rivian Dual drives better than the Tri and Quad variants
In the R2 or something?
They weren't hub motors in my R1T quad, at least. The two motors per axle were even packaged together in a single unit, as far as I could tell.
My biggest gripe with the quad was that it suffered with lateral stability in off-camber, super low-traction scenarios. E.g. going up a hill in ice with a ditch to the side. Truck would go sideways and the best you could do was give it a prayer and full send, then sideways yourself up the hill lol.
Really not the setup for hardcore mud / rock crawling. But so great for higher speed baja / rally type stuff, which was what originally sold me anyway.
I would really love to try out a tri-motor at some point to see whether it becomes win-win.
__________________ Geriatric Motoring Club Member #37
We'll have to see how good the BYD battery is.
The Geely/Zeekr golden battery claimed 450ish kw from 10-80%
but they're now having issues and derating packs to 50kw fast charging.
Ya ur confusing kW (charge RATE) and kWh (amount of charge)
It's a 100kWh battery, so $65.
US national average at Electrify America is .48c USD/kWh, so $48 USD.
The only 800V 350kW chargers in Vancouver are at Electrify Canada and Petro Canada.
- Petro is 50c/minute, so if you're charging a Taycan at 260kW average it's $10
- Electrify America is 60c/kWh, $70
- BC Hydro is 35c/kWh but at 180kW speed, $40
Chevron 200kW speed isn't real because they rely on a battery, they derate to 10kW if the battery's empty.
Tesla 250kW is a lie; chargers are 400V and thin cable so they overheat and it's more like 50-150 on 800V car
I think we're really privileged to drive awesome gas engine cars - M156, F20, F136* in Hobz Maserati, Lexus V8.
But most gas engines blow - my mum will drive anything and she still refused a new RAV4/Highlander because she said the engine (Dynamic Force 2.5/2.4T) is REALLY noisy.
Regardless of charging cost which cheapskates like me care about for a business, I think she'd welcome an EV even if it were more expensive.
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Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD
I think we're really privileged to drive awesome gas engine cars - M156, F20, F156 in Hobz Maserati, Lexus V8.
But most gas engines blow - my mum will drive anything and she still refused a new RAV4/Highlander because she said the engine (Dynamic Force 2.5/2.4T) is REALLY noisy.
Regardless of charging cost which cheapskates like me care about for a business, I think she'd welcome an EV even if it were more expensive.
My cousin got the new RX350h with the same engine.. I thought since it was a lexus it’ll have more noise insulation or refinement, nope just as loud.
Yea cuz ev is so smooth, not having a transmission is so nice. But then you still hear and feel everything else cuz it's so quiet
Ya suspension and cabin isolation matter a lot more on EV.
TBH they're really boring but it's nice to not hear a diesel/gas engine ripping it while towing or have girlfriend complain when i'm ripping it.
I would pay $1000 a year if the garbage trucks could be electric and not wake me up at 130AM or 530AM.
The thing I discovered that I really like about ev is that I can have everything on without burning gas. Like waiting at the border, rail way crossings or just sitting in the car waiting for stuff. I can sit and have heat ac on without mpg going to 0 or worrying about draining the battery, I can blast music, watch YouTube all I want. It actually makes the car way more practical and a place you want to be in. When my dad gets back into my gas car he's like how come you can't keep your heat on when the car is off
The thing I discovered that I really like about ev is that I can have everything on without burning gas. Like waiting at the border, rail way crossings or just sitting in the car waiting for stuff. I can sit and have heat ac on without mpg going to 0 or worrying about draining the battery, I can blast music, watch YouTube all I want. It actually makes the car way more practical and a place you want to be in. When my dad gets back into my gas car he's like how come you can't keep your heat on when the car is off
Agreed.
After getting the X5 PHEV, I can't go back to a regular gasser for a family car. If the X5 is totalled today, I'm probably going to go look for another one.
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