Electric and Hybrid Car Thread

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by Traum

When EVs become mainstream, they are 100% going to start losing more and more of the perks they enjoy now. We all saw it with the disappearance of free public charging, and there will be others costs that gradually gets added to EV owners as the transition happens.

Saskatchewan is already charging EV owners -- pun intended -- an annual $150 fee to make up for the loss of gas tax revenues, and in time, other provinces will 100% follow suit with similar policies of their own. I don't see how the electricity itself will be more expensive than the prices we pay for gas, but the various levels of government will most definitely find ways to recoup the revenue they lost when people are charging their cars up instead of filling them up.

This. I was watching videos by some Telsa owners in California fast-charging their Tesla, the cost wasn't far off from a tank of gas.

I was actually quite surprised.

[unit]

Originally Posted by !Aznboi128

PHEVs have a place but you're right it's worst of both worlds but it's great for the elderly.

My parents won't transition to full EV simply because "400km range what if I run out?" or "With 400km range I can't just drive to Seattle and back". And no, no additional education of ev chargers will help on top of that they're not big on apps that tell them where to go. They like to choose their own path.

Sure the range is limited, they're looking at the Tucson PHEV so about 50km of range. In the winter the engine does fire up to heat up the cabin so range is still about 50km. It's enough for them to travel from Van to Richmond and back or to Coquitlam. It's enough for their city travels and that's all that's important to them.

tell them they can use the money that they save from not buying gas to rent a car for a day and take it to seattle and back if they're so worried about being stranded in the states with an EV.

people don't realize how little these inconveniences matter when compared to saving literally $3k+ per year on gas (based on 20,000km per year average).

[EvoFire]

^ Good luck renting a car when you need it, and extra cost for something that's as comfortable as your own car and not a penalty box.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

^ Good luck renting a car when you need it, and extra cost for something that's as comfortable as your own car and not a penalty box.

Just gotta subscribe to Volvo or Porsche's subscription program. We all got the money for that right?

[JDMDreams]

Why not just buy a $5000 beater, winter beater. That's what I do. And you can daily the ev. The gas savings basically pays for both EV and beater. And more convenient than finding a rental.

[unit]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

^ Good luck renting a car when you need it, and extra cost for something that's as comfortable as your own car and not a penalty box.

extra cost when you've saved thousands from not buying gas? if you do these long trips frequently then i can see the need to have a hybrid but if you're doing them once or twice a year and that's your main justification for buying a phev, then it doesn't really make much sense to me.

[!Aznboi128]

Originally Posted by unit

tell them they can use the money that they save from not buying gas to rent a car for a day and take it to seattle and back if they're so worried about being stranded in the states with an EV.

people don't realize how little these inconveniences matter when compared to saving literally $3k+ per year on gas (based on 20,000km per year average).

It's the ease, renting a car isn't cheap these days. And since they're retired when they want to go they want to go like it's very spontaneous.

Before Covid they would go states side almost every week (we have family there too).

[unit]

just checked and you can rent a standard sized car tomorrow for $115, and that's not even shopping around at all. if they don't want to then i cant argue that, it's definitely less convenient than jumping in your own car and going.

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

This. I was watching videos by some Telsa owners in California fast-charging their Tesla, the cost wasn't far off from a tank of gas.

I was actually quite surprised.

That’s crazy! I thought that might be the case sooner or later. In the states I recall some stated had a tiered system where if you charged your car during peak hours it was 3x more than off hours. Texas and California I believeÂ…. Maybe even New York.

All this sort of insanity would drive me nuts. On top of tripping my ass over the charging cable inside my garage. Or hiring that prick electrician to bend me over backwards just to install super charger at home. Reminds me of getting quotes for my hot tub. 240v connector , new breaker , new panel , blah blah blah 3k for just the wiring of the damn thing.

[68style]

You have a hot tub at home and haven't invited us over for a RS hot tub party?

[Badhobz]

That’s too much man juice in one tub.

[unit]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

That’s crazy! I thought that might be the case sooner or later. In the states I recall some stated had a tiered system where if you charged your car during peak hours it was 3x more than off hours. Texas and California I believeÂ…. Maybe even New York.

still so much cheaper than gas, if you have to pay $30 instead of $10 to fill up your electric car on peak hours, i don't really see the big deal. the only time most people will have to charge during peak hours is if they're on a road trip or far from home and need enough juice to get home. those who have the ability to charge at home probably rarely need to charge in public unless they have been lazy to plug in at home frequently. even if you don't have access to a charger at home and always charge in public, it shouldn't be hard to charge off-peak almost every time

[68style]

^ Do Tesla's stop for bunnies that run in front of them?

[Hondaracer]

When you’re still having to pay to charge, even $30 a pop, that isn’t much incentive to switch to an EV.

Was just with a friend who has the bass model model 3 this past weekend, unless you’re at a supercharger I was very surprised how long the 240V in-home charger takes to charge etc.

I know there are cheaper EV’s but if a base model 3 is 50k. It’s 100% the wrong financial move to buy that over a 25,000 civic or Corolla as a “money saving” venture. I understand for the most part it’s not people stretching their budget who were originally looking at a 25,000 vehicle going to a 50,0000 vehicle rather it’s people looking at a 50k vehicle opting for an eV. However it reduces the overall incentive to go full EV if you’re paying to charge all the time

[MarkyMark]

It only makes sense to start charging electric cars by the kilometer since they use the roads as well so the more you use them the more taxes you pay. I'm sure it's coming it's just a matter of when it becomes popular enough that their gas tax revenue drops.

It shouldn't bother EV drivers paying their fair share since they mostly bought it to save the planet.

[unit]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

When you’re still having to pay to charge, even $30 a pop, that isn’t much incentive to switch to an EV.

Was just with a friend who has the bass model model 3 this past weekend, unless you’re at a supercharger I was very surprised how long the 240V in-home charger takes to charge etc.

I know there are cheaper EV’s but if a base model 3 is 50k. It’s 100% the wrong financial move to buy that over a 25,000 civic or Corolla as a “money saving” venture. I understand for the most part it’s not people stretching their budget who were originally looking at a 25,000 vehicle going to a 50,0000 vehicle rather it’s people looking at a 50k vehicle opting for an eV. However it reduces the overall incentive to go full EV if you’re paying to charge all the time

depends on how much you drive, and how much gas will cost per liter 5 years from now. if you're driving 20,000km per year most calculators say you'd save around $3k per year rn. if you drive under 10,000km per year and your current ice car is already decent on gas then it's not going to save you money.

[JDMDreams]

Not sure what you have but even if you have a civic and fill 40l is that even full tank? Will cost you $88 at $2.2 a liter.

The same $30 will only get you 13.63l that's like a day or twos worth of driving.

If you charge at home that $30 in electricity might be two three weeks of daily charging EV. Depending on how much you drive.

And it's definitely more than 500 km worth of driving that you get from the $88.

[underscore]

Now is probably the cheapest time to have an EV. Cheap electricity, and they get to bum off the road network for free. Eventually they'll have to pay for that too. But you have to drive a lot to make it worth it, a PHEV Rav4 is 50% more expensive than a gas one. Even if you could charge for free you don't break even til something like 75,000km. For my wife that'd take 20 years lol.

Originally Posted by 68style

^ Do Tesla's stop for bunnies that run in front of them?

They don't even stop for planes and ambulances lol

[Hehe]

I think it's only human nature to be protective of what they have or support. And we try to find evidence specifically supporting our argument.

But it ultimately comes down to objective measurements.

As I have stated earlier, EVs aren't perfect yet. However, the argument of how much electricity costs in the most expensive (both for ICE and EV) area in North America and trying to argue that EV doesn't make too much financial sense it's a stretch by any measurement.

At the highest rate, $0.58/kwh, a complete fillup of a Model 3/Y is $43.5, which translates to about 500km in range. For that same 500km, in a normal 10km/L average car is 50L. At today's average price, that's 1.74/L or a tad over $87. Thus. ICE's average operating cost is still more than double of an EV. And that is charging at the most expensive way possible. With at home charging, the cost is 1/3 of ICE.

And when we have roughly the same gas price (a tad higher) than LA and far lower electricity rate, the argument on cost is not something one is going to win no matter how much you try. We are talking about roughly 1/8 of operation cost between ICE and EV. It's the same argument trying to compare ICE vs. EV on torque. It's not even on a comparable ground.

Let's suppose you are going on a road trip once a year for a week every year. And you don't want to take EV, even at 130/day, or 910/week, it doesn't take long for the potential EV savings to offset that 910 yearly added cost. Heck, if I still have my bimmer, my yearly maintenance cost alone is probably more than that.

If you want to argue the convenience of ICE vs. EV on road trips, I will give you that. But for city-wide commuting, there isn't even a close scenario I can imagine ICE coming close to EV. EV gets charged every night while one sleeps. You would never spend another second to fill up in the gas station unless you are buying smoke or shit at convenience store.

Mark my words... we will revisit this very post in 5yrs, and the vast majority would not be trying to argue ICE/EV anymore. There are very few advantages of ICE if one narrows it down, and other than personal preference, there would unlikely be any more in 5yr time when EV become more mainstream and charging stations availability is more abundant.

[lilaznviper]

for me, the phev works out for the wife. her daily commute is about 15km so she is about to get about 3 days of EV range before she has to plug it in. we charge on a regular 120v outlet over night and will get about 50km of ev range.

price wise, the prius prime was 41k OTD vs a full EV which at at the time was about 54k + taxes.
I don't think i would use up 20k in gas/maintence for the lifetime of the car. usually keep my cars about 10 years before i switch.

[carsncars]

Originally Posted by Traum

When EVs become mainstream, they are 100% going to start losing more and more of the perks they enjoy now.

Frankly I'm wondering when BC is going to end the HOV lane sticker program for EVs/PHEVs. Seems the HOV lane has a good number of EV/PHEVs now and during rush hour gets fairly congested already.

[whitev70r]

Originally Posted by lilaznviper

for me, the phev works out for the wife. her daily commute is about 15km so she is about to get about 3 days of EV range before she has to plug it in. we charge on a regular 120v outlet over night and will get about 50km of ev range.

price wise, the prius prime was 41k OTD vs a full EV which at at the time was about 54k + taxes.
I don't think i would use up 20k in gas/maintence for the lifetime of the car. usually keep my cars about 10 years before i switch.

I heard stories of some in which they use it exactly like you, very short daily commutes to work, within PHEV all electric range and one tank of gas lasts like a month ... or more! Your situation and something similar is exactly what PHEV's were designed for.

[Hondaracer]

One thing I didn’t really think of that our friend with the model 3 was saying is that the Tesla never learns how it adapts it’s range to hills.

He said a few different times he’s monitored the range and basically due to large hills ie. Johnson hill, the snow shed etc. the Tesla will think it can make ir given X range, but it doesn’t anticipate going up a solid climb for half an hour.

Given how smart they are i would have thought that would he somthing they would learn or perhaps use the mapping to anticipate but I guess it’s too hard to gauge different different loads, towing, etc.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

One thing I didn’t really think of that our friend with the model 3 was saying is that the Tesla never learns how it adapts it’s range to hills.

He said a few different times he’s monitored the range and basically due to large hills ie. Johnson hill, the snow shed etc. the Tesla will think it can make ir given X range, but it doesn’t anticipate going up a solid climb for half an hour.

Given how smart they are i would have thought that would he somthing they would learn or perhaps use the mapping to anticipate but I guess it’s too hard to gauge different different loads, towing, etc.

It does now with the latest software. It accounts temperature, wind speed and direction and everything into calculation for its navigation.

[lilaznviper]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

I heard stories of some in which they use it exactly like you, very short daily commutes to work, within PHEV all electric range and one tank of gas lasts like a month ... or more! Your situation and something similar is exactly what PHEV's were designed for.

i'm about 3/4 tank full still and driven about 2500kms so far. mainly when the gas engine turns on to warm up the cabin on those cold days

I think at this rate, i should put in some fuel stabilizer in the tank or would it be okay to just leave the gas as is?