Negotiating used car purchase - what to offer?

[Tone Loc]

Originally Posted by GS8

I'm glad I only paid straight cash for my cars. Never liked the headaches involved with a car purchase. I bought my last two like they were TVs

This. I paid asking for my TSX because I was watching it on Craigslist and their dealer site and noticed the price steadily dropped from about $24k to $18.8. Personally, I hate haggling with businesses, if I wanted to haggle I'd buy a car off Craigslist lol. Nothing I hate more than wasting a perfectly nice Saturday afternoon indoors, having a dick measuring contest with a salesperson and their manager, which typically end in walking away empty handed, wondering if you lost a perfectly nice, perfectly optioned out car for the difference of a couple of hundred bucks.

Last time my parents spent time "haggling" for a car they spent 2 consecutive entire days at Middlegate Honda getting $2k off their new (at the time) 2003 CR-V. I was 13, and it didn't make a whole lot of sense to me then considering they were definitely able to afford the car, and it wasn't worth the time driving back and forth, the stress, the time, and effort. It still doesn't now.

That being said, the car did have some issues that I was able to "negotiate" to have fixed before I took delivery. 94k km sparkplug service, brand new belts, brand new all-weather mats, door visors, door guards, and professional body repair of a 2-inch long scratch on the passenger door... as well as a signed "lifetime" powertrain warranty.

Reading this thread makes me very glad I don't sell cars. And I thought people who aggressively tried to bribe me to let them into the PNE for cash were bad...

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by brrrz

5. Don't be an asshole. Coming in with a low offer and saying I cant do anymore then this is not negotiating. At least after I come down $2,000 you can come up a few hundred. If a manager sees the customer is not moving he wont keep going down he will stop and tell me to tell you to leave.

My cousin enjoys negotiating for a whole day or more with a salesperson to negotiate all elements of a sale, no thanks

For me I prefer going in with my best offer, and it's a take it or leave it situation, granted I won't always get the deal as the opposition thinks that it's still a negotiation. Even though I make it clear in all our previous discussions, emails, phone calls, and again when we meet face to face, that it's not. But it ends up saving me a hell of a lot of time in my day

[SSM_DC5]

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[CL typeS]

Originally Posted by tofu1413

BE REASONABLE


and DON'T BE AN ASSHOLE.


I had people offer me 20k for 26k cars before.......... and I simply said no. Not even worth a counter offer.

Politely said bye and pointed Mazda next door has cheaper cars.

Whats generally a reasonable amount to start off with? Since its a used car, dealers usually make significantly more money from it and there is much more room for them to discount than a new car.

I was looking at a TSX for $20k and I offered $18k (10% down from asking) and the dealer said they could only do $500 off after talking to their general sales manager to grant this "exceptional" discount. Needless to say I moved on since they were even willing to give a reasonable counter.

I guess alot of it goes into the negative stigma of being a car salesman. I would say the vast majority of consumers would probably agree that car salesman are not trustworthy lol

[tofu1413]

10% off msrp is reasonable. But... Some people expect 6k off on a 26k car.. Ain't gonna happen lol.


You guys really have to see it from our POV when it comes to costs and etc.

[nsx042003]

Originally Posted by brrrz

Depends on the brand and depends on the vehicle too many variables to paint with the same brush. When I worked at Subaru a good discount would be $1,000-$1,500 in most cases. If we are talking about a Touring package Impreza we are talking hundreds of dollars because the mark up isn't there. Since I have moved to Ford some F150 Trucks will have in mark up but if you wanted to come in and buy a base focus same story as the Impreza and some cases worse where we don't have money to give away and the deal is in the 0% financing for 84mo.

When looking at book values for vehicles and trying to figure out how much their cost is you need to remember the dealership doesn't just buy a car and put it on the lot there are cost associated with that. For example if we buy a vehicle for $20,000 the dealership has a "Pack" that pack goes into straight into the owners pocket and does not affect how much you can get off the price of the vehicle. Most dealers will have a $500-$800 pack. I know of Chrysler stores that have a $1,500 pack. Just for example lets call this pack $500 so now cost is $20,500. By law every dealership must do a safety inspection to each vehicle which has a cost $150-$200 and if you buy from a reputable dealership they will fix, repair, or replace anything that the vehicle needs and perform an oil change. Some cases the vehicle need new breaks or tires or who knows. If the work bill is too large the vehicle is sent to auction and someone from Kingsway will but it and sell it as "mint". In most cases there will be an added cost of $300-$3,000 after this. Lets call it $1,500 for our example so now our $20,000 car now has a cost of $22,000. This is the cost the salesmen has to work from. Keep in mind the dealership still needs to pull a profit in most cases is a minimum $1,500 above cost not $20,000 cost but the $22,000 cost so now your best outcome is $23,500.

Oh I wholeheartedly understand it, which is why I use the highend of the blackbook value plus 2 to 3k as my bottomline or (highest amount i'm willing to pay).Then my first offer would be a few grand lower than what i want to pay because dealer will never give me that and meet me in the middle. And most of the time I win on vehicles that they have sitting for a long time or when it's year end.

[nsx042003]

Originally Posted by tofu1413

10% off msrp is reasonable. But... Some people expect 6k off on a 26k car.. Ain't gonna happen lol.


You guys really have to see it from our POV when it comes to costs and etc.

if we are talking about brand new cars, yeah, that's ridiculous, never gonna happen, that's like stealing

[Lowered_Klass]

Honestly. I feel for most people in car sales. It's a tough gig from what I've heard from friends and others.

I've always looked at it like a two way street. The person you're dealing with isn't the owner of the dealership, they're just trying to do their job. It's safe to say they WANT you to buy the vehicle (obviously), and most often times will help you do so... IF you're reasonable and not an asshole (I see a theme here lol). Sales people are gettin' it from both sides. From their manager/boss as well as the customer, that's gotta suck. So I do my best to get them on 'my' side lol.

I've always been honest, and I'm always up front with the salesperson I deal with. The best deals I've gotten, were from being nice with the salesperson, and not pulling any hardball bullshit. It was amazing how much more willing they were being with me, in order to make a deal.

Having said that, I've had a few sales people that were complete cunts, and really made shopping for a vehicle at that peticular dealer a shitty expierence.

(Tofu and Brrrz, pepper your angus' if I decide to look for a new car. I'll be the kiss-ass that comes to see you lol)

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by CL typeS

Whats generally a reasonable amount to start off with? Since its a used car, dealers usually make significantly more money from it and there is much more room for them to discount than a new car.

I was looking at a TSX for $20k and I offered $18k (10% down from asking) and the dealer said they could only do $500 off after talking to their general sales manager to grant this "exceptional" discount. Needless to say I moved on since they were even willing to give a reasonable counter.

I guess alot of it goes into the negative stigma of being a car salesman. I would say the vast majority of consumers would probably agree that car salesman are not trustworthy lol

I knew someone who used to audit car dealerships, and iirc he said that there isn't a lot of wiggle room on new cars (like single digit percentages) but with used cars there's typically around 10-15% leeway, depending on the vehicle, more on trucks than cars etc.

but i cant remember exactly

[noclue]

I hate all the bullshit that comes with new cars, just adds to the "ripoff" stereotypes of car dealers. $2200 Freight and PDI (not this high in USA though same continent), $300-500 Documentation fee, Nitrogen air, vin etching, paint protection, leather protection, extended warranty. You constantly have to keep saying no while they keep saying why not.

Or them trying to mask factory incentives as a good discount effectively selling you a car at full msrp.

On the other hand, you have all the cheap asses who complain about everything on a used car to get a discount, buy a new one asshole!

At the end of the day, the sales manager is the one with the power.

[Suprarz666]

^I believe freight/pdi, tire, and AC fees are the only mandatory fees, everything else is a upsell.

For new vehicles, I usually use unhaggle to get an invoice price, I heard it was relatively close, sometimes even exact. Obviously you won't get it at the invoice price but it gives you a better idea at the very least.

[Amaru]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

I knew someone who used to audit car dealerships, and iirc he said that there isn't a lot of wiggle room on new cars (like single digit percentages) but with used cars there's typically around 10-15% leeway, depending on the vehicle, more on trucks than cars etc.

but i cant remember exactly

I've actually heard that some dealers will break even on new cars just to move them off the lot and get them onto the road. I think this is much more the case with budget brands and models. Dealer can make a few bucks from the occasional oil change or new tires and then hopefully profit more down the road when the car is out of warranty if the car is still in town and the owner is willing to pay dealer prices for repairs and maintenance.

I believe the margins go up with the car's price point (I doubt Porsche are making $2500 on a new 911). Plus, luxury brands don't give no fucks about offering 'deals'.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by Amaru

I've actually heard that some dealers will break even on new cars just to move them off the lot and get them onto the road. I think this is much more the case with budget brands and models. Dealer can make a few bucks from the occasional oil change or new tires and then hopefully profit more down the road when the car is out of warranty if the car is still in town and the owner is willing to pay dealer prices for repairs and maintenance.

I believe the margins go up with the car's price point (I doubt Porsche are making $2500 on a new 911). Plus, luxury brands don't give no fucks about offering 'deals'.

+1, and manufacturers have super hefty bonuses to dealers who move volume

[brrrz]

Originally Posted by SSM_DC5

What's in the safety inspection?

Essentially making sure the car isn't junk seeing how much breaks and tires are left. There are legal limits the vehicle must meet for a dealership to sell it

[SSM_DC5]

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[Amaru]

In case anyone was curious (you weren't, I know, but whatever)....

We didn't end up buying the Lexus after all. After a second long test drive, we decided it wasn't worth the asking price (or anywhere close to it).

We ended up with an Acura instead. It just arrived on a local used car lot (a reputable one, not "Happy Motors") and they were asking $31,900... I offered $28,000.... went back and forth a few times and settled on $29,500.

Probably could've got another $500-$1000 off if I'd really been willing to play hardball, but we were desperate for a vehicle and this RDX was absolutely perfect (much, much better value than the Lexus).

Anyway, thanks all for advicing me on negotiating.

[Xu.Vi]

Little bit off topic but hoping someone can chime in. I may be looking to straight up sell my vehicle to a dealership for cash. Would there be any incentive for them to even buy it if i'm not looking for trading in? If I do see a car that I like in the trade and is CHEAPER than the one I currently own by $4,500~ (according to CBB), how much would the dealership consider giving me?

Thanks